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I think investing in a breatherlyser would be a good idea, removes any doubt about where you are.
"YOur expertise?"
Quite a bit 😉 Did a course when evidential breath machines were introduced to the UK and another day with Lion Intoxilysers in SWales for hand-held devices
ta
"I think investing in a breatherlyser would be a good idea, removes any doubt about where you are"
No, it won't. Alcohol has to get from your stomach into your blood to be measured either in breath (blood circulates through your lungs) or blood (and of course urine, but that's a rarely used option)
This takes an unknown amount of time dependent on food (slower), fizzy drinks (they get out of the stomach faster), and you. Men and women are also different. So you/Mrs W could be below in the pub but above when you drive home, and you could in any case be impaired below the limit.
And that's assuming that the machine is accurate, the police calibrate theirs regularly. So, save your money, drink non-alcoholic, job's a good'un
I have- police roadsafe and and CTC.
What are these?
Passed my Advances Driving Test at 18, since you asked
The RoSPA one that lasts for three years? So 27+yrs ago?
I’m genuinely surprised at some of the attitudes on this thread, I thought drink driving attitudes moved on in the 80s
I'm not sure they have. The main difference these days is that drivers who drink tend not to talk or be honest about it for fear of being labelled irresponsible potential child killers. As someone like postierich who is perfectly comfortable having a couple of post-ride beers then driving home, being lectured by the 1 pint is too many brigade gets a bit boring so you don't advertise the fact. I've said a few times on these sort of threads that I know for a fact I can go quite a bit over 2 pints before I test positive at the 80mg level. Does that mean I do? No. Would I drive after 2 pints if I though my driving was impaired to the point of being a danger to others? No. Do I think the limit should be lowered? Probably. For some it should, for others not, but you'd have to consider the lowest common denominator so difficult to oppose it. Would it stop me having 2 pints? I don't know, it would depend on the circumstances, such as location, the length of the drive home and time of day. In any case the chances of being caught are negligible so in many cases probably not.
And how does lowering the limit address the significant numbers of people who still drink 5 or 6 then get in the car and don't give a **** about it? I think that's a much bigger problem but then again being an irresponsible 2-pint driver I would say that wouldn't I?
Flame away....
dazh - at 2 pints ( probably between 50 and 80 levels you are 6 times more likely to crash. thats the science. anyone who thinks drinking any amount then driving is OK is wrong. Even at 1 pint ie levels probably between 20 and 50 your chances of crashing are 3 times higher
The only reason people thik a ouple of pints is OK is beause they lack the self awareness to understand how much their driving is impaired. Thats a function of how alcohol affects you. anyone who claims they are not imparied at a level of 50 is deluded
Having never crashed in 30 years of driving it seems like an increased risk of 3 times (perhaps a broadly reasonable estimate at the 1 pint level based on ti's links) still leaves me safe enough to not worry too much about it.
exactly the sort of deluded thinking that leads to drink driving. If anyone could have shown exactly how people think about drink driving you and postie have shown it. completely deluded as to the risk, in complete denial that their behaviour is wrong.
I'd only require one for morning after duties as I don't see the point in having one beer if I can't have more...
Keeping it in perspective, why demonise driving with one pint while driving while carrying on a hands free telephone call is acceptable to most people but more dangerous than driving at the drink drive limit by some measures.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2077-cellphones-worse-than-drink-driving/
Nothing is absolutely safe. Judging by danger per mile the first thing needing banned is motorbikes.
Yeah we did that several pages back.
Oh I demonise folk who use their phones while driving. I have got out of a taxi and refused to pay halfway home because the driver took a call on his mobile. I also regularly shout at idiots I see on their phones in cars. Its highly amusing to watch them drop the phone with a guilty start .
I also regularly shout at idiots I see on their phones in cars. Its highly amusing to watch them drop the phone with a guilty start .
Serious question TJ. Do you spend your life going from confrontation to another?
How many times have you been knocked on your arse?
What's the baseline risk of crashing with no alcohol? I'm perfectly happy to accept that it's 6 times higher after a couple of pints if that's what the science says but if it's 6 times a tiny number then I'm not overly concerned. I could buy six lottery tickets to increase my chances of winning by 6 times, doesn't mean I think I'm going to win.
Fair point. Makes a lot more sense to know the actual numbers rather than shouting SIX TIMES!! over and over.
TJ has made me very guilty I only had 1 and a half pints today after my ride but then again I had to ride over Red Bank offroad to get to the van did not want to puke it up would be a waste. Seriously I am a stick to the speed limits man, never tail gate, don't smoke weed never owned an Audi!!! please don't think bad of me as a serial drink driver I ride hard and the occasional drink at the end of a ride (probably most rides) I like a beer its just me but I can seriously say I have never driven a vehicle in which I felt impaired and most probably!! under the limit.
Sorry If Ive gone down in a lot of peoples estimation but just being hones
Thanks for being honest Postie - I do have some respect for that but please stop drinking and driving. You are impaired after that much alcohol. Thats the simple fact
Serious question TJ. Do you spend your life going from confrontation to another?
How many times have you been knocked on your arse?
I am not always as confrontational in real life as I am on here. However as I ride pretty much every day in the city I am not going to see dangerous driving and not let my feelings be known.
Never been knocked on my arse. I make sure I have time and space to run away. A few times I have had car drivers really chase me, none have ever caught me
There is a line between being assertive and aggressive. I try to stay the right side of it
But when somone nearly hits me 'cos they are looking at their phone and I catch them up in traffic I want to say something to embarrass them. If somone puts my life in danger then I am going to tell them. Reported quite a few to the plice as well. Drink drivers, road rage etc. Got one guy a ban for drink driving.
" All it takes for evil to flourish is for good folk to do nothing" I believe it is right to challenge these things. I can understand others think differently
And to be clear - I do not do this angrily in a road rage style. See someone on their phone and get the opportunity to tell them when they get caught in traffic. Get right alongside them ( they never see me - too interested in their phones) and shout very loudly - " put the phone down" Everytime I have done this they react with shock and fright and drop the phone. Petty amusement maybe but just maybe someone will think twice
To drive whilst over the legal limit (whatever it is or will be) is illegal but to drive with lower levels of alcohol in your system is frankly irresponsible.
TJ, your link to the Cornwall police is interesting but also a load of b*llocks. That police man is wrong, in much the same way as the policeman from Birmingham who recently publicly claimed that they were going to prosecute anyone traveling 1mph over the limit was proved wrong. Speed detection equipment and speedometers are never 100% accurate so the law requires a 10% + 2mph buffer. Police often claim these sorts of things to scare the public (who are by enlarge ignorant) but the actual law often says different. In the case of drink driving, or proving someone's impairment to drive through drink, the law is very clear. It requires a positive breath/blood/urine test that is over the limit. In rare occasions if the incident is serious enough and someone is under the limit a a few hours later when tested, a back calculation can be made to ascertain if they were over the limit when driving at the time of the accident.
I've no idea what your personal crusade is but please get off your high horse, live and let live, and please stop using made up facts about the law and twisting what you read online to try and win the argument. It seems that winning the argument at all costs is really your objective here isn't it?
The law is very clear TJ and the provided that you haven't exceeded the current drink drive limit (which is perfectly reasonable for most people) then you cannot get prosecuted for drink driving. I will carry on enjoying a pint after my bike ride and will drive home safely again as usual. If you don't like that then I couldn't care less - the law is on my side.
To drive whilst over the legal limit (whatever it is or will be) is illegal but to drive with lower levels of alcohol in your system is frankly irresponsible.
Why is this? The law says it is fine. Do you know better than the law? All depends though doesn't it? I bet I'm a safer driver after a pint than most drivers out there who are sober. Perhaps it's irresponsible of those less able drivers to be driving at all, drunk or sober!
surfmatt - is that you?
surfmat – is that you?
😂
This is the joy of the Internet, despite the fact I hardly drive and on the occasions I do never touch a drop, I can't help thinking I would rather have a pint with those that do 😉🍻
So where do we all stand on drinking and cycling, or is that a different thread? 🙂
Still waiting for that that baseline crash probability BTW. Not being pedantic, I am actually genuinely interested.
I did ask that one earlier.
IMO there is a moral difference as you are so unlikely to hurt anyone but yourself riding drunk and to be done for it you have to be very impaired so legally its very different as well
Helpful, yet uninvited, reminder:
one of my life lessons from here is to try to make my point and move on not get bogged down in the minutiae of debate so that is what I will
It's a topic with no winners 🙂
🙂
When we go camping we always take the bikes, I can whole heartedly agree with the scientific fact that there is a sweet spot on the bike where a little Dutch courage (stella in my case) will increase speed without hindering performance, however it's a rapid decline after the next beer to which I can vouch for after trying to ride up a near vertical rooty wooded section and nearly removing my sack in the process!
So, whose had a couple of pints with Sunday Lunch today then driven home?
Even before the law changes in Scotland I never even had a pint and drove.
Even if under the limit, if I hit someone I'd always be thinking 'would it of happened without that pint in my system '
I personally don't have the desperate need for a drink if I have the car. You may be legal, and you may think you can drive to the same standard, and you can probably still drive safely but I doubt you can drive as safely as if you had no alcohol at all.
You may be legal, and you may think you can drive to the same standard, and you can probably still drive safely but I doubt you can drive as safely as if you had no alcohol at all.
Possibly not, but that's what the law is there for to stop you exceeding a limit that is deemed fair and reasonable. If you traveled at 70mph everywhere then you wouldn't be as safe as if you traveled at 20mph, but then we'd never be able to get anywhere or do anything in a reasonable time frame. Like everything a balance must be struck between enjoyment/practicality/getting things done and safety.
If no one was allowed a single pint before driving then pretty much all of our much loved country pubs would have shut down by now. Saving a few lives every year possibly, but is that what we want - a life of boredom and following a strict rule book, when we're all going to die of something at some point anyway. Not for me thank you.
Does having 1 pint really add much enjoyment to an activity.. If it doesn't get you drunk or merry, and the alcohol has no affect then surely a non alcoholic drink will suffice? Or a non alcoholic beer if its the taste you like.
I'm all for lack of rules, as long as they don't affect other people. I wonder if you would have the same attitude if someone just under the limit knocked over a family member?
As for pubs going out of business.. Same was said about the smoking ban. Folks would still go to the pub, but would just alter their habits when there.
I've been seriously underestimating the spending power of all the car drivers and their one for the road. Who'd a thunk it?
If no one was allowed a single pint before driving then pretty much all of our much loved country pubs would have shut down by now.
Pretty much as in none.
@pbiker is it at all possible that some of us like a pint purely for the taste and because we enjoy it irrespective of the effects? Having a pint at the end of a ride with your mates is absolutely enjoyable, even if it’s just one (or two). It’s not about getting leathered, it’s just about enjoyment, that’s it. There really is nothing else to read into it.
And have you tasted non-alcoholic beer?
After riding with mates there is nothing better than quenching your thirst with a pint ..myself and my mates usually have a single pint after riding locally & drive ..it's not for the alcohol content ..but for the taste ( of a nice real ale ) .
As we live near the border ( Scotland ) and regularly venture that way ..not one of us would risk a pint then drive while in that country ..preferring to visit a tea room or coffee house ...
Another consideration while riding ( in England ) would be the distance we would have to travel back home..preferring coffee to a pint if it's a long journey ..
At the moment ( in England ) you have a choice ..and while that is the case and I'm staying on the right side of being legal then I think it's up to myself as to how I exercise that choice ..
Should alcohol limits change in the future then I will adapt accordingly to stay on the right side of the law..
Does having 1 pint really add much enjoyment to an activity.. If it doesn’t get you drunk or merry, and the alcohol has no affect then surely a non alcoholic drink will suffice? Or a non alcoholic beer if its the taste you like.
Well I REALLY enjoy it, just because you don't then that's neither here nor there. Alcohol free beer tastes nothing like real beer - generally it's pretty awful stuff.
I’m all for lack of rules, as long as they don’t affect other people. I wonder if you would have the same attitude if someone just under the limit knocked over a family member?
Depends how the accident was caused. If they'd had a pint but were under the limit and driving sensibly and well then what's the problem? If they were driving like a d*ck then regardless of whether they have had a drink or not I might have rights to be pretty angry. There are multiple reasons for any one accident and whether someone has had a drink or not, whether they are over the limit or not, might play a part in some, but no part in others. Everything you do or don't do affects other people to some extent. Should we legislate the heck out of every part of life (because that's what the knee-jerk crowd seem to want).
As for pubs going out of business.. Same was said about the smoking ban. Folks would still go to the pub, but would just alter their habits when there.
Supposed you are not aware then of the between 7,000 and 11,000 (depending on which study you read) rural pubs that have gone out of business and closed since the smoking ban came in? Many of these pubs would have been the social hub of the village, a place where lonely old people can meet, an opportunity to chat about ones problems. Indeed loneliness is becoming one of the biggest issues for the elderly out there since a lot feel unconfident to communicate through social media. Would be a real shame if more pubs closed as many others already operate on very slim margins.
I for one would not bother stopping in a country pub if I couldn't have pint, and most of my friends would be the same I suspect. A pint often leads to food, snacks, a quick game of pool etc. Instead I'd probably just head home for a beer there instead.
"Why is this? The law says it is fine. "
Current modern research using current information says English law us out of date.
@kananga - not all those pubs shut because of the smoking ban. What was the rate of closure before the smoking ban came in to force.
Supposed you are not aware then of the between 7,000 and 11,000 (depending on which study you read) rural pubs that have gone out of business and closed since the smoking ban came in?
No, there's been that many closures over 18 years the ban came in 2007. The biggest contribution being the rise of cheap supermarket alcohol and there's a big link to the recession too, the smoking ban was only a small part of it.