[Closed] Airline Stupidity

They just didn't want to unload him.

If the doors were open and the stairs/dock still in place then there is no reason why you can't get off the aircraft.

Got to be careful how you approach it though as people are very touchy about passengers behaving aggressively on an aircraft and you can very quickly end up in a police cell for little more than shouting and gesturing.

My experience yesterday showed that any agressive behaviour is just as likely to be on the part of the waitress who has to front up to 60 grumpy people who know that they are being lied to. She flew off the handle and behaved in a very irrational manner.

Goodness knows how she'd cope with a fire.

But anyway if you calmy got up and walked to the door and said 'I'm getting off now' What could they do?

Once you get on the plane getting off before everyone else is a very suspicious. Technically all you would need is to pick up another passengers boarding pass (easily done) and then exit the plane and your bags are in the hold with whatever you don't want be flying with.

@Scott, they don't want to let you off especially if you have check-in baggage which then has to be unloaded. Even if you don't have bags they don't want to start a trend as people with bags will ask to get off. I've been on a number of flights where people have got off whilst plane was at the gate and delayed. I do not believe they have any right to hold you against your will, you can always claim you are feeling unwell.

^ used to be the major concern, that as long as every bag had a passenger on the plane associated with it, then everything would be OK. That all changed once people didn't care anymore about what happened to them, getting a bomb on board was sufficient, because if you went up with it, it was just a fast track to heaven.

I'd imagine at a minimum they would have to escort you away from the departure side of the airport to arrivals, update the passenger manifest and unload any hold baggage.

They'd also need to get all the passengers to check their carry on luggage to ensure nothing was left onboard by the departing passenger.

Not sure of the legal status of a plane on the ground but probably get the police involved sharpish.

oh and they would also have to move people round to balance the plane and re do some of the plans if enough got off delaying everyone else further.

they would have to escort you away from the departure side of the airport

Why?

What is the "departure side" of an airport?

There are loads of airports where departing and arrival passengers walk past each other.

Because believe it or not, the ariline is busting a gut behind the scenes to get the aircraft underway. Having a plane sat on the tarmac full of passengers serves nobody. So they remian at a state of readiness until such time they get the green light that they can depart without further delay, then go, or a message that the flight has to be cancelled. If passengers can come and go as they please then this will ultimately potentially cause delay to the departure of the aircraft as paperwork has to be updated and the aircraft has also been fuelled and the flight plan calculated on the weight of x numbers of passengers and associated luggage. etc. Also how does the airport control the disembarking passengers? You can't just have people aimlessly wandering aournd the airside part of the terminal without a ticket to go anywhere.

You can't just have people aimlessly wandering aournd the airside part of the terminal without a ticket to go anywhere.

What?

As I said above this is nonsense.

Have you ever been to Schipol? Copenhagen? Glasgow?

Just recently I had to cancel a flight after checking in with hold baggage at Copenhagen. I then "wandered aimlessly" around the airport, as I had to use the wifi to book a hotel for the night and wait for baggage to be unloaded, before I exited the airport.

Heathrow and Gatwick separate arriving passengers but this is not always the case.

Having been de-boarded from a plane while it was still at the gate (doors open), I can confirm it is possible. My reason was illness and you could tell immediately that doing so was a massive ball-ache for everyone involved - particularly as I had hold luggage.

I was escorted to arrivals where I had to go through passport control to be taken to the airlines help desk to wait for my case.

Also how does the airport control the disembarking passengers? You can't just have people aimlessly wandering aournd the airside part of the terminal without a ticket to go anywhere

I can see why they wouldn't let you off. You don't just need hold luggage. You could just as well arrive on board with a full hand baggage allowance and leave without it or with less of it. How would they know?

I've been in a situation were I have refused to board due to delays. It's not a big deal; some security bod opens a door and you are on the arrivals side.

Besides, with all the remote check in these days, what happens when a passenger is checked onto a flight and doesn't show? Are you telling me they don't know if they have hold baggage?

Besides, with all the remote check in these days, what happens when a passenger is checked onto a flight and doesn't show? Are you telling me they don't know if they have hold baggage?

Been there, done that (Dusseldorf) - about 10 y/o.

Pretty much no choice, in the hands of the airline - who are in the hands of the airport.

I wonder if there's some sort of special case for aeroplanes? I'd expect that staff would have the authority to restrain you if you wanted to leave the aircraft without permission in certain circumstances. Like, at 20,000 feet, for instance.

I wonder if there's some sort of special case for aeroplanes? I'd expect that staff would have the authority to restrain you if you wanted to leave the aircraft without permission in certain circumstances. Like, at 20,000 feet, for instance.

I don't know about all airlines but I know that some can and will restrain disruptive passengers if it's deemed necessary for safety reasons.
I've seen people restrained with plasticuffs on one airline and handcuffs on another. The restraints were part of the kit the crew have onboard for that type of situation.

GF was on a flight recently when someone had to get off as it was still in the stand, so it is entirely possible. The airline staff will make as difficult a process as possible however. In the case of the OP I think after 3hours it would have made a very strong argument to get off.

probably waiting for lemon-soaked paper napkins.

Cougar - Moderator
I wonder if there's some sort of special case for aeroplanes? I'd expect that staff would have the authority to restrain you if you wanted to leave the aircraft without permission in certain circumstances. Like, at 20,000 feet, for instance.

I dunno, I've never read them. But I'd take a stab that they've got this kinda thing covered and it's entirely down to their discretion.

I reckon that covers it. It's easyjet, but I'd imagine this is standard fare airline in t&c's.

You basically surrender any rights you have to the captain as soon as you step on board by the sounds of it.

http://www.easyjet.com/en/terms-and-conditions

Article 19 Conduct Onboard and at the Airport and the Right to Refuse Carriage

19.1 General Requirements

19.1.1 Passengers are reminded that in accordance with applicable local and foreign laws, the captain is in command of the aircraft and every person on board shall obey his or her lawful commands. All Our captains are given authority to direct Passengers who misbehave, are disruptive, or otherwise cause problems to resolve the issues as best they can in all the circumstances. This may include the use of physical restraint and, where possible, removal from the Flight of such persons.

every person on board shall obey his or her lawful commands.

Lawful being the key word here.

I would suggest that a passenger on a flight who has no hold luggage, that has been delayed by several hours and it is still on the stand with the doors open, would be entirely within their rights to request to leave and the Captain would have no right to detain them. Especially if their return flight is scheduled to departure only within an hour or 2.

If that would delay the flight further then they might have some argument to stop you.

gobuchul - Member
every person on board shall obey his or her lawful commands.
Lawful being the key word here.

I would suggest that a passenger on a flight who has no hold luggage, that has been delayed by several hours and it is still on the stand with the doors open, would be entirely within their rights to request to leave and the Captain would have no right to detain them. Especially if their return flight is scheduled to departure only within an hour or 2.

If that would delay the flight further then they might have some argument to stop you.

All Our captains are given authority to direct Passengers who misbehave

I'd guess someone not following the instructions of cabin staff would be classed as misbehaving.

probably waiting for lemon-soaked paper napkins.

There needs to be some sort of Internet rule which states, "there is no forum thread which cannot be improved by the addition of a DNA reference."

All Our captains are given authority

By whom?

By whom?

By the CAA I'd guess.

I got off a flight in similar circumstances to what the OP described.
I'd also already missed the meeting so it was pointless for me to travel.

I told them I wasn't feeling well and needed to see a doctor, they suggested I see a doctor at the destination (Belfast) but I just stood by the door and told them I needed to leave the aircraft.
They then got someone to come and collect me.

Wasn't there a Ryanair flight where the passengers called the police due to the staff onboard refusing to allow them off the aircraft after a long tarmac delay? The police duly let them leave the plane.

so after all those posts we still don't know the legal position then?

so after all those posts we still don't know the legal position then?

I think this sums it up.

Wasn't there a Ryanair flight where the passengers called the police due to the staff onboard refusing to allow them off the aircraft after a long tarmac delay? The police duly let them leave the plane.

I cannot see how an airline would be able to detain you without your permission.

I guess the best way would be to find a way of getting thrown off without getting arrested and charged with terrorism offences, or detained by chaps in Hazmat suits.

Tweet a complaint about the flight crew?

Cougar - Moderator
All Our captains are given authority
By whom?

I've got off an airplane after 5 hours before ( left the stand but returned as crew out of hours). Others had been threatened with arrest prior to them relenting and letting anyone off who wanted to. My bags went on without me. Not that uncommon in the USA, I think my bags have been on different flights more often than not.

"there is no forum thread which cannot be improved by the addition of a DNA reference."

glad someone got it..

I am an airline captain.

We get our authority from the Air Navigation Order (an act of parliament).

I cannot order a passenger to stay on an aircraft once boarded, it's not one of my powers! (I can and do negotiate beg, plead,cajole etc)

I can however order someone off my aircraft, that is one of my powers once you've boarded.

Is there nothing STW can't answer? Awesome.

Tom, how does that work when you're overseas rather than on UK soil?

My authority works on the aircraft only and under the AIr Navigation Order, as the aircraft is registered in the UK - I have authority over what goes on inside it wherever it is, be it on the ground overseas or airborne.

tomkerton - Member
I am an airline captain.

We get our authority from the Air Navigation Order (an act of parliament).

I cannot order a passenger to stay on an aircraft once boarded, it's not one of my powers! (I can and do negotiate beg, plead,cajole etc)

I can however order someone off my aircraft, that is one of my powers once you've boarded.

Interesting, ta.

so in the OPs scenario, waiting for 3 hours on a plane, someone [i]can [/i]demand to get let off the plane?

Looks that way!

Seosamh - yes absolutely. I have no power to keep you onboard.

Fair do's, I'm surprised at that tbh, cheers tomkerton. 🙂

hey TomKerton i've got a question for you! 😀

My wife edits airline manuals for a living and notes that amongst the various animals that need particular treatment during air transit, there's a category for "one day old chicks". There's a category for eggs, and one day old chicks, but not 2 day old chicks or fully grown chickens or cockerels or anything else in the chicken family.

What's so special about one day old chicks?

What's so special about one day old chicks?

The crunch makes them a delicacy

You're quite right. the manual says...

Company Policy on Day Old Chicks and Turkey Poults

These are packed in pre-prepared crates, stacked and ready for loading. The birds generate a lot of warmth and water in such concentrations and the packs are designed to minimise heat loss yet allow sufficient air circulation for their well-being. The flight time should be limited to 5 hours.

So I think that the significance of that paragraph is that they can go,in the unheated hold (as they generate a lot of heat) whilst live animals have to go in the small heated hold so from the airlines point of view different levels of care would be required. You'd have to,ask a poultry farmer what's the difference between a one day and two day old poult.

Tom.. So... About the plane taking off on the conveyor belt but with one day old chicks flapping away... Is this possible?

I'd have to check with the performance specialists at head office Cloud9!

Authority of commander of an aircraft

141. Every person in an aircraft must obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation.

I suspect that if you could argue that by getting off the plane you might be having a detrimental effect on the 'efficiency or regularity of air navigation' then the aircraft commander could order the pax to stay on board. I have certainly witnessed an occasion when a transatlantic flight landed at a certain regional airport because Heathrow had problems. The aircraft stayed on the ground for 14 hours and nobody was let off, not even those whose subsequent flight was to fly back from Heathrow to the place they were sitting.. Must've been Hell!

The situation you describe imnotverygood could,be down to the airport authority. Whilst I cannot stop someone getting off... if the airport will not/cannot provide steps or facilities for my passengers then clearly no one can disembark.

This situation arises when a major airfield closes because of a crash or a weather phenomenon (snow mainly) and large numbers of aircraft divert to regional airfields.

[quote=imnotverygood ]I have certainly witnessed an occasion when a transatlantic flight landed at a certain regional airport because Heathrow had problems. The aircraft stayed on the ground for 14 hours and nobody was let off, not even those whose subsequent flight was to fly back from Heathrow to the place they were sitting.. Must've been Hell!

I've been on an aircraft which did something similar - though thankfully the delay was rather less than that. IIRC we were supposed to be going to Stansted and ended up at Luton for a bit. Lots of people wanted to disembark and weren't allowed. The irritating bit was that they didn't decide they needed more fuel for the hop until after stuff was moving again so we ended up at the back of the queue waiting to refuel when we'd been one of the first aircraft to arrive there after diversion.