Yep, the owner of the flat upstairs has started letting their flat on AirBnB. As you can imagine this is not good, late night (well, all night) noise, lights left on/off, random car parking in the drive, the list goes on.
It was unannounced, but it's only taken a week to figure out what's going on, find the listing etc.
I think/hope I have a fairly long list of measures which will persuade them to stop, it's one flat of 4 in a converted house, the other two owners are equally pissed off, and we already have a fairly long list of lease and insurance issues to present. I'm starting with a reasonable email, along the lines of 'it's just out of order and there's no way she would live below it, please stop'.
I'm sure the deep font of STW knowledge must have some experience of this, so interested if anyone has similar experiences to share? Don't share them if it didn't result in stopping it though please!
I’m starting with a reasonable email, along the lines of ‘it’s just out of order and there’s no way she would live below it, please stop’.
You're hoping that someone who didn't bothering informing her neighbours what she had planned and is making money out of it is going to be reasonable?
Good luck with that.
depending where you are your council may have rules on it. If a Reasonable email does not do anything and I doubt it will that would be my first port of call along with checking leases etc ( If leasehold)
No idea on the legality etc - someone else need to help with this.
Assuming it's all legal.....
It's a tricky one imo. If I was the person letting the flat through airbnb I'd hope you wouldn't mind. Same as if I was a long term tenant. But there are plenty of folk that would be a rubbish tenant and a rubbish short term airbnb renter. Imagine a rubbish tenant 24/7 as a very real alternative....you could be a bit half glass full about it and think at least it's not all the time!
As an aside - if she is renting it now what was going on with it previously? Was she in it, a mostly absent dweller or did she long term lease it? Are you comparing a now full flat to a previously basically empty one? If so it would be worse living there regardless of airbnb or anything.
Is there anything in your gift you can do to make it better. Improved signage in the car park, signs on switches etc. Are there any reasonable measures she could add to the flat welcome info that could make your life better?
Good luck with that.
Yes, I know. But I'm a reasonable person.
first port of call along with checking leases etc
Yes, this is exactly what we're doing.
Imagine a rubbish tenant 24/7 as a very real alternative
Yes, but it's generally easier to deal with this as the rubbish tenant isn't going soon. In the space of a couple of weeks it's been a succession of rubbish tenants. (Indeed, in many ways long term rentals are the best situation - most are fine, and you can probably persuade the flat owner to kick them out at the end of their tenancy, not so with a flat owner, and an unreasonable AirBnB tenant are leaving tomorrow so why should they gaf?)
if she is renting it now what was going on with it previously?
It's her second home, no doubt referred to as her 'pied a terre'. She has spent about a 1/3 of her time here til now.
The point really is that standard domestic owners and renters have lived up there for years - odd bit of noise of course, but it's always just been a question of a knock on the door, can you turn it down please if it's too bad. Most people live similar lives where it's usually maybe weekends etc, so it's never been a problem. It seems that when let as an AirBnB in a city (Bristol) it attracts a holiday/party clientele, not someone intending to live there, with entirely predictable consequences.
Is there anything in your gift you can do to make it better.
I have thought about this - but as above, fundamentally I think it will always attract a hotel type crowd, in a building that most certainly isn't built as a hotel, in some ways worse as it's big enough for loud groups of mates too... (And yes, clearly I would have expected them to think about this before whacking it on on AirBnB, but...)
Speak to the owner first. Ask what policy's they have put in place with their guests, house rules, quite times etc. ask for a copy and email the owner every time a guest brakes the rules.
Airbnb is great, but if an owner lives away from the property which has neighbors it can be a mare.
If no joy, strap two speakers to the ceiling and alarm call every guest at 5am.
As a responsible AirBnB owner my advice would be to do all you could to persuade the guests to leave a negative review. A run of negative reviews will really hurt. There are of course other platforms, but it would be a ball ache to switch.
I'm sure you can be creative with being persuasive.
You use your flat as a home? To actually live in? How quaint...
Joking aside, I've actually thought of AirBnB'ing my flat at the weekends. If only to get away from the noise of power tools/building works running all weekend. "Oh, sorry if the chainsaw has disturbed you but we must cut logs for the logburner all day Sunday as we both work all week...". Makes my teeth itch, everybody doing up/flipping houses/converting houses into flats/flats into houses/every single shop getting turned into a bloody coffee shop...
Gonna stay in my peaceful unit on an industrial estate at the weekends and let my flat out as a party venue. I'll probably get an asbo within a week. Seems you can be as antisocial and selfish as you like in some ways, but not in others.
Sorry for using your thread as a ranting post OP. I feel your pain tho.
Rent your place out as an air BnB too. Use the profit to rent a nice house
Any common spaces where you and the other residents could stick up a load of official looking notices about quiet times etc?
Thread is useless without links.
What I will say is that whilst anti-social behaviours isn't on you can hardly complain about them parking in the driveway. Unless you'd prefer them to park across it.
I think/hope I have a fairly long list of measures which will persuade them to stop, it’s one flat of 4 in a converted house, the other two owners are equally pissed off, and we already have a fairly long list of lease and insurance issues to present. I’m starting with a reasonable email,
Check what your local councils rules are - some local authorities don't allow apartments with shared access (communal door and hallway) to be used as short term and holiday lets. In Glasgow its certainly the case - they actively pursue it as a policy, and issue enforcement orders. They'll also be wanting Business Rates.
If it's an old house split into flats do you collectively not own the leasehold? When I lived in one in Farnborough it was a leasehold held by a company in which we were all directors. Not only did we pay into a maintenance fund but we could set the rules at AGM. Mind.you not sure where we stood.if someone flatly refused.
1. Rent it yourself for a couple of nights.
2. Trash the place.
I have thought about this – but as above, fundamentally I think it will always attract a hotel type crowd, in a building that most certainly isn’t built as a hotel, in some ways worse as it’s big enough for loud groups of mates too… (And yes, clearly I would have expected them to think about this before whacking it on on AirBnB, but…)
Have a look at the listing and see what they are offering in this respect. I'm heading off to a cottage on the islands tomorrow (humble brag). Thats via airbnb. It only has one bedroom but also says "The listing can accommodate a gathering of 25 or more attendees" - exactly how it can accommodate them I'm not sure.
So its worth understanding what expectations prospective guests are being given.
What I will say is that whilst anti-social behaviours isn’t on you can hardly complain about them parking in the driveway. Unless you’d prefer them to park across it.
Yeah, I should have been more specific there. There are allocated parking spaces, in the front garden, with a pathway up the middle to the front door. If they're used, all is fine. But the car was parked across that pathway almost completely blocking foot access to the front door.
Thread is useless without links.
Yeah, I know, but I'd rather keep it general in case it all turns nasty!
was a leasehold held by a company in which we were all directors.
Yes, it's exactly that, and with 3 of us being 'against' the AirBnB there is hope. That said there are clauses in the lease and articles which are intended to prevent removal of rights etc, and of course leases etc are all just legal opinion until tested in court which obviously I want to avoid.
Check what your local councils rules are
Yeah, unfortunately there only seems to be talk of regulation in Bristol - no action.
As you can imagine this is not good, late night (well, all night) noise, lights left on/off, random car parking in the drive, the list goes on.
It was unannounced, but it’s only taken a week to figure out what’s going on, find the listing etc.
So you are basing your upset on one or two sets of tennants? I’d not be looking at how to stop (she won’t, you’ll end up in a battle) but how to constructively guide them (visitors and Airbnb operator) to a sensible solution. E.g. how can you sign post the parking better; how can you make this appeal to workers or families looking to be in Bristol rather than Parties etc. However just because you’ve got lucky with neighbours before doesn’t mean a long term tennant is going to be better.
Well for a start move the parking signs so their's wont block the pathway. Then think how to sell this to her so she isn't looking to lose some hundreds of pounds a week.. just because you're not used to having anyone upstairs more than a third of the time isn't going to do the job.
You can go the nuclear option but be prepared to regret it later when you get zero cooperation on anything
given what you said about the leasehold on the building then the other 3 should be able to stop this - there should be clauses in the lease agreement
pwersonally I would warn her and ask her to stop, then in parallel both go down the legal route and making the stay for the renters unpleasant - early morning noise is a good one.
I bet she has not declared it to the mortgage company or for tax either. shop her to both. Most air B&Bs do not run within the law. Edinburgh was playing a game of whack a mole stopping them
making the stay for the renters unpleasant – early morning noise is a good one.
Why not stick to the person responsible for letting an unsuitable property as a holiday apartment, rather than targeting people who legitimately rented a place for a holiday ?
Because if they leave bad reviews it will destroy the "business" Yes its harsh on them but no one using air b&b should be under any illusions what unethical and often illegal cesspit it is.
90% of air B&Bs in edinburgh are illegal
Another thought - is the flat up to standard for renting? Again in relies on what your councils regulations are but its usual to require full interlinked fire systems, all gas, electrical and fire checks, proper fire doors etc etc. Report it to the council
Turning the place into a party flat is a grade A dick move. Plus the whole thing sounds about as above board as that basement poker room where I lost all my money the other weekend.
Good luck.
but no one using air b&b should be under any illusions what unethical and often illegal cesspit it is
Well I have used airb&b twice, and both times we stayed in lovely cottages in the middle of nowhere and had a great time.
Not sure where I should have spotted the "unethical and illegal cesspit" vibes, as they were not all that obvious.
Head in sand much Neal?
Do you really not know what sort of a place it is?
there are few / no controls
No one checks the building is up to the correct standards, No one checks its a legal rental etc etc
No different to many other short term letting portals that exist and existed long before air b&b.
Not from what I know. Others run checks on suitability of the buildings and are they to the right standards
i was going on a lads weekend and they fpound an air B&B. I asked them to check for the correct certificates for short term letting. the owners had none. We went instead to a place from another source that was legal
You need to go full Michael Keaton from Pacific Heights on them.
1. Rent it yourself for a couple of nights.
2. get key cut.
3. Let yourself in and trash it after every visitors departs.
Let yourself in and trash it after every visitors departs.
That is pure evil but sheer genius.
Sure TJ - but 84% of statistics are just made up....
Not from what I know. Others run checks on suitability of the buildings and are they to the right standards
Which sites are those ?
Which sites are those ?
I don't remember but I looked into this a year or two ago and I was astonished how little management and protection you got from air B&B compared to other sites and how much more air B&B charged
More than 7,000 entire properties are being offered for rent in the city on Airbnb – rather than a spare room in a house – but fewer than 35 properties in the city have applied for planning permission to operate as a commercial business.
An investigation by The Times highlighted that in a sample of 150 flats, more than one in ten did not report a smoke alarm or carbon monoxide detector, and a further third only had a smoke alarm.
I don’t remember but I looked into this a year or two ago and I was astonished how little management and protection you got from air B&B compared to other sites and how much more air B&B charged
That's why I asked. We looked at which sites to put my folks place on.... It's not on air BnB because their back side tools are a bit shite when it comes to room management. But as for believing any of them come out and vet your place you'd be very surprised.
At best they ask you to send in paperwork.- easy to fake if you were so inclined.
As for the rates..... Air BnB ain't all that high compared to others - some of the more boutique ones are higher and offer no better protection. They mostly all self regulated based on reviews.
I was dealing with an agent and its a while ago but some of the sites wanted to see the official paperwork ie safety certs etc from my memory - and air B&B were significantly more expensive
they are shysters - look at their response to that scotsman article
Airbnb are cheaper from a hoast perspective than many of the others - booking.com etc. Airbnb fees to the guest are high, but also comparable to other sites.
Our airbnb has been cloned twice on other sites - screenshots of our photos on Airbnb and some general information but no details. People actually booked through them (booking.com and some glamping site) paid the money, no further communication and then turned up - once during lockdown and one after. I'm pretty sure no sites ask for any paperwork or even if the property exists.
Ours was targeted because its linked to our village shop, which we also run, so if you Google it everything looks good.
Airbnb is just an accommodation search engine ultimately.
We stayed in an AirBnB in Edinburgh last summer for the night, fairly early on it dawned on us that the woman that owned the flat was sleeping in her car whilst we were in her flat 😑
The next night we moved on to a lovely log cabin in Inverness, when we got there, it was one of those posh garden 'home offices' in someone's back garden, on a housing estate, complete with barbed wire on one of the surrounding walls!
Tbf we had a great time.
What I don't understand is how after 10 years this gov't still has nothing on the table to regulate this industry. It seems in no one's interest other than airBnB to allow it to continue, hell even the people doing the lets could probably do with seeing some regs come in as their income will fall as numbers grow otherwise.
Its not like they don't have a precedent in terms of the legislation, all they need to do is extend it to cover this type of letting out.
some councils are doing something. Scottish parliament is also looking at the issue
I've stayed in AirBnBs all round the world. I think it's great? Found lots of places that were good when I couldn't afford a hotel.
I've also rented my place out with it. Rented the second bedroom which allowed me to afford to eat while studying my masters.
Am now renting the whole flat out as I've moved in with my girlfriend at her place. I don't think it's dodgy or unethical.
My flat is in good condition - after all, I've lived in it for twenty years! I've got it up to HMO standards with the certificates etc and all the linked fire alarms etc.
My building is in the Edinburgh old town, 50% owner occupiers, 50% rented out to students for a year at a time. All my neighbours know I'm doing AirBnB and have my phone number if there are problems. They're all happy with it - they know I'm responsible. I do all the factoring for the building, sorting out repairs and I've been painting and cleaning the stairwell myself for 20 years.
I'm happy with AirBnB's platform and their percentages.
Doing AirBnB lets me use the flat myself if I want a night out in town, I can block it off to let friends or family stay if they're visiting. Plus, if I fall out with the girlfriend I don't have to go live in my campervan!
As far as regulation goes, bring it on! I'd be happy to do that. It would also be good for me to get a license as if you get in at the start and they limited numbers then it limits competitors.
So, just as a counter-point to the anti-airbnb feeling on here, it can be a good thing.
Do you have planning permission YGH? Are you are registered landlord?
Yes it can be done well for an individual but the effects overall are not benign hence Edinburgh looking to regulate strictly
