More of a vent / get it off my chest than anything as I am now thinking I may have over-reacted but I was very worried last night...
Got home from work, my wife wasn't at home so just the three kids at home. My daughter said she'd got a bad headache, some loss of vision, tingling and numbness in her lips/cheeks and down the right side of her body. She was speaking clearly (as well as a teenager does) but said she was struggling to think straight and felt 'out of body'. With my very basic knowledge of this sort of stuff, I checked her temperature (normal), checked her balance and checked her grip - she could barely squeeze her right hand. I called 111 and they told me to go to A&E (where I was told there would be a ten hour wait to see a doctor)! Anyway, the triage nurse did some checks and diagnosed something I have never heard of before - a hemiplegic migraine (apparently a rare type of migraine that we should follow up with our GP). So we walked away with me feeling a little bit silly, wasting A&E time with that, but I guess 111 told me to go and lots of the symptoms were very concerning (ie, stroke-like symptoms). Thank goodness she is okay. I may have speeded a little on the way 😐
And breathe.
If everyone knew what their diagnosis was without input from professionals, then I wouldn’t have a job.
I don’t consider it a waste of my time to reassure people. In fact it can be one of the more rewarding aspects of my job.
God knows I spend enough time doing the reverse.
Nonsense - exactly the right course of action (except the speeding)
Ultimately, thats what A&E is for. You called 111 and they sent you in. Don't feel bad. Kids (even older ones) can't effectively elaborate on whats happening to them as they have no reference point, so ultimately it's always going to be a judgement call as to what you should do, there's no right or wrong.
Differential diagnosis is TIA. 111 will have followed the algorithm and recommended A&E. Triage did the same and rules it out. Sounds like the system worked perfectly. Much better than the alternative.
If you hadn't have taken her you'd be non the wiser. Migraines come in many forms...
Don't worry about wasting their time, It's why they're there.
I had to go to A&E the other day. It was an eye opener! A brand new (6 months ) hospital, filled to the gunwhales with old folk on trolleys. Every bit of corridor occupied with trolleys, 6 ambulance crews waiting to offload.
And apparently that was a quiet day...
So we walked away with me feeling a little bit silly, wasting A&E time with that,
I wouldnt. Going there for a stubbed toe then yes but those do sound pretty serious symptoms and 111 obviously agreed.
That there was a less concerning reason doesnt make it any less sensible decision (depending on exactly how you speeded).
Sounds like the system worked perfectly. Much better than the alternative.
Yes, that's what I was telling myself. And we all learned something new - even Migraine charity websites say that this particular form of migraine (that only effects 0.01% of the population) presents with symptoms like a stroke and that you should see a medical professional to rule it out. So it was pretty impressive that the triage nurse could identify it.
Differential diagnosis is TIA.
Yes, a good friend (not very old, fit and healthy) had one of those a couple of years ago and that was on my mind too.
Not for that I wouldn’t, I’d have gone for a migraine over a stroke but I’d still have had m daughter checked out.
I’d have gone for a migraine over a stroke
She's never had a migraine before so, although I initially wondered about that as a cause, I wasn't sure (especially with the numbness and loss of grip on her right hand which I have never heard of as symptoms of migraine). But apparently, they can start at this age because of all the puberty hormones.
As a father to two kids who have both had seizures from Anaphylalic shock at young ages you did the right thing. Its ****ing scary not knowing what to do / what's going on, and its absolutely right to get them to professionals even if its only minor in the end.
I'm pleased to hear your daughter is OK.
Nonsense – exactly the right course of action (except the speeding)
If I was seriously concerned my child was having a stroke then hell yes I would speed on my way to A&E.
Safely and within reason, of course. I mean I post on STW so therefore am automatically a driving god 😉
Edit: When we were young one of my siblings had suspected septicaemia, meningitis or something (I don't remember exactly, I was smallish too). As there were no ambulances available immediately my mother sped there along the hard shoulder, through red lights and all, with hazards going and blowing the horn (no other kids were in the car!).
She told me afterwards that if the police had stopped her, they would've just given her an escort to continue to the hospital.
Anyway, um, cool story I guess.
I’m pleased to hear your daughter is OK.
Thank you 🙂 I just wanted to give her a hug, but she thinks she's too old for that rubbish now.
The one bit of advice that I give to all parents is to trust your instincts. If you’re worried get some advice.
Fortunately serious illness in children is relatively rare. However minor illness is very common. In practice this means that to spot the one sick child, it is inevitable that we will see thousands who don’t have much wrong with them. That’s just the numbers.
None of us want to miss the sick child. From experience it is devastating. No matter how busy we are, we all want to find them.
I'm currently in hospital (visiting my dad) and showed your post to the nurse who's in here checking him over and she says you absolutely did the right thing. She says that they would much rather deal with a case that turns out to be a best-case scenario rather than you stay at home and it go horribly wrong. Glad your daughter's fine after the stress of a quick dash to A&E.
She also says that they prefer to see mountain bikers in her A&E (Prince Charles in Merthyr) than the local druggies as we tend to apologise and comply rather than punch, kick and be gobby little shites 🤣
You absolutely did the right thing.
I get occasional ocular migraines - one of the symptoms is disrupted vision (like looking through cracked glass) first time it happened i was driving home from work, and absolutely terrified i was having a stroke.
Hope this is a one-off, but definitely follow-up with your GP.
we walked away with me feeling a little bit silly, wasting A&E time with that,
Well, stop it. I swear, the sole purpose of 111 must be to tell people "you're a nob, stop being British and go to the hospital."
I had to go to A&E the other day. It was an eye opener!
What you see on TV isn't the half of it. The corridor spaces are numbered now (at Blackburn at least) so this isn't a fleeting problem. I had to blue-light my mum earlier this year. The ambulance station (actually "Resus") was great, the ward was great, the gap between the two was in a corridor next to a Reception area for eighteen hours.
She’s never had a migraine before so
Anecdotally, they can be weird like that. I've had a couple of bouts over the years, came out of nowhere, came and went over a few weeks, then went away as abruptly as it started. Scared the absolute piss out of me when the first one hit, I genuinely thought I was dying. (Something your daughter may not have communicated...)
Nothing to add other than you did the right thing and I hope your daughter gets some good treatment and improves.
Hope this is a one-off, but definitely follow-up with your GP.
Yeah, the nurse said she would be sending a letter to them and we definitely will do - apparently with this particular type of migraine (if it turns out to be that) benefits from having a good meds plan in place. Interesting I did read that head injuries can trigger an attack and she did take a couple of knocks to her head in netball on Sunday.
I genuinely thought I was dying. (Something your daughter may not have communicated…)
She did ask 'Am I dying' on the way to hospital. I reassured her she was not (whilst secretly praying to myself). TBF, I don't *think* she was being serious.
Nothing to add, except to say that A&E was definitely the right call with those kinds of symptoms. No-one's time was wasted.
My sister is a theater nurse.
When younger my niece was complaining of a sore arm after she fell over, Wouldn't let anyone at it to check. Called 111, popped along to A&E with a distraught child. Called in to see the A&E bod only for my niece to push herself up and walk in as if nothing had happened
even Migraine charity websites say that this particular form of migraine (that only effects 0.01% of the population) presents with symptoms like a stroke
I am surprised that it is as rare as that. I suffered migraines with stroke-like symptoms when I was a teenager. Complete numbness would travel up one arm starting with my thumb, then across my face and even my tongue. It did affect my hearing and speech to a degree.
But in my case the stroke-like symptoms only lasted minutes and I was then left with severe headaches and maybe vomiting. It must be scary stuff to have it last for a prolonged period and as everyone else says you undoubtedly did the right thing. In fact you did what you were told to do.
Hopefully if it happens again, as is more than likely, it won't be as scary, even though it will never be pleasant. In my case I eventually grew out of them and any later migraines tended to be bog standard ones. I suspect that it is linked with teenager hormonal issues, I believe there is a connection between migraines and hormones.
I believe there is a connection between migraines and hormones.
Yes, the nurse did say that. Thankfully it wasn't anything more serious and we now know more about what it is. Thankfully she has a very high pain threshold and can, for the most part, work through this sort of stuff.
@johndoh You did absolutely the right thing, hemiplegic migraine are not to be messed with as they can/do present as stroke like symptoms.
I myself have had migraine since I was 14, going on 40 years of the little blighters, sadly mine are just your common migraine, lots of intense pain, brain fog, light and sound sensitivities, nausea and vomiting to name a few of the fun things.
While hemiplegic migraine are scary, there are lots and lots of new treatments available now.
If you'd like any help please do feel free to PM me, I can give you a lot of info regarding triggers and coping strategies etc.
TGG
This is what the system is set up to do, you call 111, they advise, when it comes to children they err on the side of caution, so almost always 'go direct to A&E' if symptoms line up against anything serious, 111 is part of a triage service, and it's there to reduce pressures on A&E where it can.
If only more folk used it, and minor injuries before setting off to A&E it would make life easier for most, same as doctor appointments and pharmacies.
Like yourself, visiting A&E is not pleasant, last visit earlier this year with the daughter was via minor injuries and due to her temp, it was a straight to A&E job, thankfully BRI has a children's A&E, so easier to deal with, but the mess around a hospital is horrible these days, blue badge holders thinking it's a permit to abandon a vehicle anywhere, so turning the drop off area into a parking area for them, meaning blockages for people and ambulances, same around the area when then trying to park, if there weren't two of us taking her i haven't a clue how i'd have gotten her to A&E without abandoning the car on the road!
Agree with Kramer..
I'm forever telling people that "just because I haven't given you a terrible diagnosis, it doesn't mean a visit to the Dr was a waste of time"..
She had symptoms that warranted urgent inout, ergo you did the right thing. It's grand the outcome was a 'non-severe' illness, but you still did the right thing.
About 90% of my consults end with me giving the patient reassurance they'll revert back to the mean..
DrP
Another vote for 100% the right thing. I once took a phonecall from my wife who was, it turned out, in the middle of a hemiplegic migraine. It was terrifying. Like you I thought she was having a stroke, as she had pretty much all of the symptoms that we're told to look out for. Making no sense, slurring speech, numb in half her body
She'd never had one before, never had one since(but she had always suffered hormonal migraines with more common symptoms). It was almost certainly due to a change in contraceptive pill, which ironically had been done to try and prevent migraine!
I'm no medical person, but have had a lifetime of migraines which are possibly finally under better control, and my wife has hers much better managed. Please feel free to drop me a message or post here and I can happily share some of the stuff I've found out over the years. It's a huge area and some of the medical professionals I've seen were incredibly dismissive, but there are some good solutions out there.
You did the right thing, and how your daughter is doing ok. Sometimes the 'hangover'/postdrome is almost as bad as the main attack.
I just wanted to give her a hug, but she thinks she’s too old for that rubbish now.
Tell her hugs have no age limit😉
After what the lot of you have been through these last few weeks, I would like a lorry load of hugs to turn up at your door.
Hope you all have a calm and uneventful patch for a wee while.
You are doing a top job,take care.
I might just add, there’s a world of difference between presenting the first time your daughter has a hemiplegic migraine, and every time she has one (once it has been suitably investigated).
Sounds like the system worked perfectly.
Aside from the prospect of a 10hr wait, it's quite nice to hear a good news story of a system that worked well.
Triage (111 then the triage nurse) did the sifting and sorting just as it should. I'm sure a hard pressed triage nurse will blast me for this, but you didn't 'consume' the most in demand, most pressed and most expensive A&E services.
Well, stop it. I swear, the sole purpose of 111 must be to tell people “you’re a nob, stop being British and go to the hospital.”
I think it’s a mix of this and the opposite! “No you don’t need a Dr to come out at 3 in the morning, because you are feeling tired but can’t sleep”
FWIW id probably have missed the 111 step and gone straight to A&E given those symptoms as I’d never heard of migraines causing loss of grip etc.
FWIW id probably have missed the 111 step and gone straight to A&E given those symptoms as I’d never heard of migraines causing loss of grip etc.
I was starting to consider that as the wait time on 111 was quite long and I was getting a running commentary from her 'my arm has gone numb now', 'my other foot is tingling', 'my eyes are starting to hurt'.
I might just add, there’s a world of difference between presenting the first time your daughter has a hemiplegic migraine, and every time she has one (once it has been suitably investigated).
Absolutely - now we have witnessed it and know what it is, I won't be so quick to go into PANIC! mode.
@drp She had symptoms that warranted urgent , ergo you did the right thing. It’s grand the outcome was a ‘non-severe’ illness, but you still did the right thing.
I would consider migraine to be severe IMHO, it is after all a serious neurological disorder along similar lines to epilepsy, theres even migra-lepsy which gives you both migraine and epileptic symptoms.
She did ask ‘Am I dying’ on the way to hospital. I reassured her she was not (whilst secretly praying to myself). TBF, I don’t *think* she was being serious.
Yeah, "probably not" is likely not a great answer. 😁
I suffered migraines with stroke-like symptoms when I was a teenager.
Mate, that sounds horrific.
Anyone who thinks a migraine is "a bad headache" has never had a migraine. After my brush with them I've spoken with other sufferers and frankly, there but for the grace of dog I got off very lightly.
The first bout I'm pretty sure was situationally induced. It's a long story and not really relevant to anything.
The second time around it just... happened. I was sat playing World of Warcraft and got a weird visual disturbance, a zig-zag pattern at the edge of my vision. Over a period of, idk, 20 minutes maybe it drifted to the centre of my vision and I had to say "sorry guys, I need to stop playing, I've slightly gone blind a bit." (I make light of it now of course, but it was terrifying.) Then it went away. And I thought, "Phew. That was weird." Then it felt like someone had taken a cricket bat to the base of my skull, I've never known pain like it. Then I went for a lie down in a dark room for a bit of a cry, suddenly understanding why sensory depravation chambers are a thing. Tell the cat to stop stamping its feet.
They did me in for about four weeks and then just stopped. Horrendous bloody things. I have the deepest of sympathies for chronic sufferers.
She’s never had a migraine before so, although I initially wondered about that as a cause, I wasn’t sure (especially with the numbness and loss of grip on her right hand which I have never heard of as symptoms of migraine). But apparently, they can start at this age because of all the puberty hormones.
I had my first hemiplegic migraine when I was a young teenager as well. It happened when I was having a bath after a mountain bike race and scared the living daylights out of me. My parents, being typical boomers, told me to take a couple of paracetamol and man up.
I think I’ve had only one other since, but plenty of other migraines. Aura ones are the most common for me.
And I’m comfortable with appropriate speed on the way to A&E as well, having three points and a fine to show for it, along with a parent who is still alive.
Never feel bad about using A&E. Especially for your kids.
Twice I've treated one of our kids as if "just ill" and wanted to just keep them in bed, to be overruled but their wiser mother to immediately take them first to the GP (back when this was an option and before 111 replaced just dropping into your GP) and then ordered straight to A&E... in both examples the "illness" required immediate action... one an appendix whipping out within hours... the other the administration of insulin and the start of a life long journey of treatment.
The "don't bother the medical professionals" seems drummed into some of us, well definitely me, by our parents. Sod that, seek help. Don't be like me.
[ I'm not moaning about 111 calls by the way, the service has been proven to be damn good recently ]
I would consider migraine to be severe IMHO, it is after all a serious neurological disorder along similar lines to epilepsy, theres even migra-lepsy which gives you both migraine and epileptic symptoms.
In terms of medical severity, it's not a severe/life threatening illness.
Yes it's a debilitating illness..many conditions are, but it's not a threat to life or limb.
DrP - (severe migraine sufferer since a kid)
we tend to apologise and comply rather than punch, kick and be gobby little shites 🤣
so better behaviour displayed than on here then?? 😂😂
OP - right thing done. Glad all OK.
OP – right thing done. Glad all OK.
Thank you - I've just spoken to her, she feels okay now but hasn't got full strength back in her hand yet. I wonder if she'll have the presence of mind to say she's tired and wants to rest tonight, rather than have her usual Tuesday night maths tutor 🤣🤣🤣
