[Closed] Advice not judgement - speeding, a friend thinks they were flashed.

Shit, I've got no biscuits.

I'd hope it'd have an effect and quite a long lasting one as well.

Advice not judgement

You're having a laugh

Advice not judgement

You must have clicked the wrong URL 😉

...but it's a bit of a grey area them being a foreign national. Assuming he did get flashed, then he will be contacted via the rental company in due course. He could ask them 'hypothetically' what might happen if this imaginary event had happened.

Probably want to use a different company next time, tho.

What would chris martin do

hyperventilates

I'd have thought 120mph-ish would be looking at a custodial sentence. So perhaps the fuzz would be quite interested.

Tea and hobnob in hand

you could lend him a bike yeah?

If they got a flash a letter will be sent to their UK property. I'm sure their tenants will let them know if something turns up.
But using that address to rent a car and not living there could be a whole can of worms !!

He is in a whole heap of trouble - wrong address, non uk resident so insurance not valid on hire car.

Go straight to Guantanamo Bay, do not collect £200.

the rental co. will just return the completed form to the dvla they have no interest after that.. the dvla will send a form.. no reply they ll eventually take you to court you ll be asked to appear you fail an arrest warrant will be issued you ll be ( sorry your friend) pulled upon landing as the passport will trigger an alert.. do you like porridge?

Obviously total **** ...

Why would he give his UK address with a Chinese licence ? What credit card did he use ?

IME the Swiss are very organised about following up tickets internationally. Rest of Europe much less so.

Police will go to rental co first obviously, your friend should check his credit card for extra charges as rental co will add an admin charge £25-50 ? for giving the police the licence / rental details

Cameras can flash but film is "out"

Finally motorway speed cameras are generally not "on" unless there is a rediced speed limit in force, this is changing though.

IMO zero chance Police waiting at airport in March and a very very low chance his name / licence is blocked for rentals - use different company, in any case the ticket / court case wouldn't be processed that quickly.

Wait for the ticket.
There's no point worrying about it until it arrives and you say that they don't even know whether they were flashed or not.
I've thought that I've been flashed many times and no tickets arrived. They could get lucky too.

imnotverygood - Member

I'd have thought 120mph-ish would be looking at a custodial sentence.

Since when did speeding carry a custodial sentence?

They used their (rented out) UK property as the address at the rental agency.

Whoops.

there are too many IFs to predict the outcome. It is theoretically possible in England to be prosecuted in absence without you ever receiving notice of the case, and then to be stopped at immigration for failing to pay a fine. Realistically it would probably be a year after the offence before that was likely to happen.

The hire company probably has a copy of the licence with a Chinese address on it?

FYI Their UK provisional likely won't have expired (they last to age 70). regardless dvla just create a ghost record for overseas license holders to record points/bans.

anything over 100 mph custodial sentences are considered 120 is a fair chance of getting one.

thing is as the OPs friend has a UK provisional his Chinese license is not valid in the UK and by using a address that is not his he has falsely claimed to be UK resident.

No license, no insurance - the speeding is the least of his issues.

Its well more than a bans worth of points in one hit

anything over 100 mph custodial sentences are considered 120 is a fair chance of getting one.

More like 6 points and a couple hundred of a fine.

This genuinely is for a friend. I didn't go above Bristol or 75pmh.

But using that address to rent a car and not living there could be a whole can of worms !!

I've had to do something similar. When I couldn't remember the flight details for leaving the country I gave my MIL address. I used my real (Thai) address when booking the car and taking out insurance on the excess*. I made it clear to the rental girl I didn't live at that address.

pulled upon landing as the passport will trigger an alert

Really?

Beyond contacting his tenants, is there any way to find out if he was flashed before landing and being detained.

Most rental companies charge an administration fee if they receive a ticket so he can keep an eye out for this.

Can he contact the local constabulary?

thing is as the OPs friend has a UK provisional his Chinese license is not valid in the UK and by using a address that is not his he has falsely claimed to be UK resident.

No. Absolutely not. I have a copy of the legislation (not to hand) as I have a full Thai licence and provisional UK licence.

I got the legislation when looking to see how taking lessons and getting a full UK licence would go, still being entirely legal to drive on my foreign licence. We are perfectly entitled to drive in the UK on a foreign licence in the short term despite being 'known' to the DVLA. It was given to me by a policeman who said something along the lines of "this is my area so keep this handy in case you're pulled and the officer isn't aware."

We (him and me and many of my friends, as we frequently rent) use our non-UK licences entirely legally and don;t claim to be UK nationals. Far from it as I usually have photocopies of my Visas taken.

His offence is speeding. Nothing else.

They're mid-40s and got their licence at Uni so around 25 years ago.

The hire company probably has a copy of the licence with a Chinese address on it?

Yes. And an official English translation of this.

Why would he give his UK address with a Chinese licence ? What credit card did he use ?

I've done and do the same although substitute Thai for Chinese. Wife and I use MIL's address for our banking. When renting a car, we write our nationality, country of residence etc correctly. We hand over the card we used to make the booking, our passport, our foreign driving licence and the international driving permit.

They usually ask for 2 addresses, 2 contact numbers etc when you don't live in the UK. They clearly aren't expecting you to be resident at both.

As I said, he's guilty of driving stupidly. No fraud, without a licence, insurance or any of that.

*which I used successfully for a chipped windscreen

I got a parking ticket on our rental in a beach car park on Vancouver island. I just ignored it but 3 months after I got back to the UK a letter arrived from Canada. I couldn't believe my luck, i ripped it open thinking it was from a lass I met on the trip. Wrong! Rental company spanked my card for the fine.

You can run but you can't hide.

[i]anything over 100 mph custodial sentences are considered 120 is a fair chance of getting one.[/I]

Yer, right - if it'd been 150 then maybe.

The rental company might follow it up, but if they didn't have a copy of his passport no way will he get pulled at Heathrow and just make sure next time he brings a different credit card and use their Chinese address.

He's non-uk resident with a chinese license. The DVLA site implies he's allowed to drive for 12 months on this. So, regardless of the UK provisional license, he does have a valid license.

The rented property is just a place that the rental company can contact him. I see no issue with this.

Offences committed then seem to be purely speeding. (stupidity is not yet criminal).

I would assume a summons would be issued, delivered to his rented property. If he gets the summons he then deals with it as required - either plead guilty by post if that option exists or have to attend. Not sure what happens if he is not able to come. Maybe then a warrant for his arrest.

If banned, he won't be able to drive in the UK even though he's not got a UK license. If he does he will then commit a whole host of offences that would incur a capital punishment in Beijing.

I don't think the option of a speed awareness course is likely to be offered in this case.

I couldn't believe my luck, i ripped it open thinking it was from a lass I met on the trip

🙂 Look on the bright side it could have been recommending an HIV test.

mikey3 - Member
What would chris martin do

anything over 100 mph custodial sentences are considered 120 is a fair chance of getting one.

thing is as the OPs friend has a UK provisional his Chinese license is not valid in the UK

and by using a address that is not his he has falsely claimed to be UK resident.

No license, no insurance - the speeding is the least of his issues.

Its well more than a bans worth of points in one hit

tjagain - Member

anything over 100 mph custodial sentences are considered

Anything to back this up?
I've been off the roads for a little while but I was under the impression that speeding does not carry a custodial sentence.
I certainly can't find any examples of anyone doing bird for the offence of speeding.

I certainly can't find any examples of anyone doing bird for the offence of speeding.

Finally motorway speed cameras are generally not "on" unless there is a rediced speed limit in force

The one that got me on the M5 was most definitely "on" despite it being 6am and no reduction in the speed limit. Luckily I wasn't doing 120mph though.

Non issue ... me bro-in-law (non-EU person) was clocked for speeding in his rented car.

All foreigners are allowed to drive using their home license for 12 months.

After that if they wish to continue driving they can get an international license from home to drive in UK for further 12 months. Drive with their home habit like bat out of hell ...

The bottom line is the car rental company will pay the fine then charge it to his credit card.

That's what happened to me bro-in-law just a monetary fine.

The bottom line is the car rental company will pay the fine then charge it to his credit card.

That's what happened to me bro-in-law just a monetary fine.

poly - Member

The bottom line is the car rental company will pay the fine then charge it to his credit card.

That's what happened to me bro-in-law just a monetary fine.

wow the amount of nonsense in this thread is exceptional.

I don't know what speed my Bro-in-law was fine for in London or just outside of London, the fine was not a lot just £60 I think so he just paid it when he returned his car.

I, on the other hand many years ago, just over took a Police Jaguar at M1 where everyone slowed down ... me just drive pass them. Then they chased us for a bit and I finally stopped. God knows what the flashing light was behind me ... I was driving with foreign license then. I received a letter and pleaded guilty whatever by saying we thought the speed limit was 100mph or something silly ... told court (reply by writing a letter) we're wrong etc by admitted guilt. Also in the letter agreed to all form of punishment etc. Guess what ... nothing happened. Not even a single letter to ask us to attend court. The court let us go ... There I guess it depends on your luck ... 😛 (yes, we received court letter so we replied accordingly ...)

Yeap, no fines no nothing ... On M1 overtaking Police Jaguar at 100mph where everyone slowed down and we hadn't a clue why other drivers slowed down. Looked that the police (they were on middle lane I think) and thought they might just driving about so what ... then overtook the police ... 😆

I remember over taking the Jaguar and looking at the Police like " ... you are slow matey ... " Then flashing lights behind me. : 🙂

True story. We were driving from London to Coventry during the day. At night our speed were 123mph to 130mph in a rented Peugeot 309 GR (surprising good car to drive).

P/s: I will double check with me Bro-In-Law later on coz he was fine.

My advice; don't speed then you won't get caught.

My judgement; don't speed, it's disrespectful.

bodgy - Member

My advice; don't speed then you won't get caught.

My judgement; don't speed, it's disrespectful.

Yes, I was very young then as it was first time for me in a foreign country etc.
Agreed I was foolish then so not doing that again.

Nowadays that would get me into serious trouble ...

Flash "singular" No camera in the box.

Flashes IE two in quick succession, details, Speed/time/distance have been recorded. The exception to this is a red light camera.

In case of the former ignore, for the latter speak to [url= http://www.nickfreemansolicitors.co.uk/ ]Mr Loophole[/url]

Occasionally threads on here offer sound opinion backed up by first hand experience of the subject matter.

Only occasionally

Genuine question.

If you are a non-EU citizen caught speeding in a rented car with a foreign license what can the British govt do? If you have left the country the following day.

If you are a non-EU citizen caught speeding in a rented car with a foreign license what can the British govt do? If you have left the country the following day.

captainsasquatch - Member

If you are a non-EU citizen caught speeding in a rented car with a foreign license what can the British govt do? If you have left the country the following day.

What's EU got to do with it?

I am using the term to represent the entire Europe.

I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law? i.e. on a citizen from a country in Asia or South East East etc.

I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law?

captainsasquatch - Member

I assume if you are caught speeding in EU/UK and being citizen of one of them you have to face the law. Where as if you are not a citizen of any of them then how do you go about imposing that law?

You assume wrong.

How wrong?

I mean if you are visitor and fly home the next day as a non-EU person how does the law work? Bear in mind speeding in other country is not really a crime and normally just a fine.

Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa? For example, if a German driver caught speeding but he only found out when he is in Germany, does the British court chase after the driver?

Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa?

captainsasquatch - Member

Does that mean a British driver caught speeding in Germany/France etc would not have to face the law vice versa?

Depends on the country. Not all countries within the EU have shared info agreements. Spain doesn't share info with UK, for example.
Hope this doesn't change your understanding of EU.

Okay something interesting there.

Therefore, I guess all visitors (no country agreement) can safely ignore the speeding rules apart from paying fines (if the get one instantly) coz unless a major tragedy happens, no court is going to chase after another person to appear in court from country with no agreement for speeding.

Chase after a person in China for speeding fine or court appearance in the UK should be interesting ...

Therefore, I guess all visitors can safely ignore the speeding rules apart from paying fines (if the get one instantly) coz unless a major tragedy happens, no court is going to chase after another person to appear in court from country with no agreement for speeding.

captainsasquatch - Member
No, all visitors are expected to respect the laws of the land that they are visiting. It kind of demonstrates a level of intelligence.
I've now got to wonder how many other aspect of the EU you don't understand that you're ranting against.

Yes, I agree with respecting the law of the land etc.

But what if someone accidentally break the rules for genuine reason? (non-EU/UK citizen and from a country with no agreement with EU/UK)

What can you do because they are not intentional? In that case you have to let them go don't you?

They respect the law but not assuming not very intelligent so accidentally break the rules or speed limit then fly home (to a distance country with no link to UK/EU), you would have to let it them go don't you?

For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane. The police issues the driver a ticket, the driver admits speeding but after that continues with driving to the airport to fly home never to return to UK again. How to deal with this case?

There seems to be a lot of talk about the law here. [s]You're[/s] They're driving at 120mph - that's not legal in China either, I believe. So, [s]you're[/s] your friend is basically a ****. [s]You're[/s] They're not accidentally getting flashed at 75mph, and I would bet that [s]you're[/s] your friend is doing it exactly because [s]you[/s] they have a foreign licence. When [s]you[/s] your friend kill[s]s[/s] someone's kid/parent/sister/brother by ploughing into them at 120 mph I'm sure [s]you[/s] they will feel much better by knowing [s]your[/s] their licence meant they'd not get caught.

Oh sorry, you asked for no judgement, missed that. Why on earth wouldn't [s]you[/s] they want to be held accountable for something [s]you[/s] they've done other than because [s]you[/s] they know it was wrong?

They respect the law but not assuming not very intelligent so accidentally break the rules or speed limit then fly home (to a distance country with no link to UK/EU), you would have to let it them go don't you?

Ignorance is no excuse. There's a practicality element to chasing fines; you're unlikely to bother chasing someone outside the UK, let alone the EU, for doing 34mph in a 30, but whether you've done that knowingly, because you're late for a flight or any other made up 'justification' is a total irrelevance. You certainly don't "have to let people go", why would you? You seem very confused about what you're even talking about.

orangespyderman

Grow up.

I asked for advice as to what was likely to happen, not how to avoid any consequences. You also missed that.

They're repatriating in the summer and are flying back in March to house hunt. They are genuinely worried they'll be pulled off to the side at immigration.

Well they will find out when they land, the Hire car company will forward license details so regardless of what the put on the form if China cooperates their details will be provided. If a conviction is recorded then they can probably expect to face the consequences when they get back.

http://www.****/news/peoplesdaily/article-3080081/Chinese-man-caught-speeding-21-times-confused-miles-hour-kilometres-hour-speedometer.html

njee20 - Member
Ignorance is no excuse. There's a practicality element to chasing fines; you're unlikely to bother chasing someone outside the UK, let alone the EU, for doing 34mph in a 30, but whether you've done that knowingly, because you're late for a flight or any other made up 'justification' is a total irrelevance. You certainly don't "have to let people go", why would you? You seem very confused about what you're even talking about.

Of course there is no excuse for speeding but people are people some just forget. I am not talking about driving 34mph in 30mph zone, I am talking about M1 where I can easily drive at 100mph without knowing if I come from other country. Note that they use KMph so they might simply have forgotten whatever ...

Of course all excuses are irrelevant etc ...

For example, yes it's speeding on M1 so the person apologises etc then promises to drive slowly to airport and tell police to follow if the wish to make sure whatever ...

Question is if the driver co-operates so what is the traffic police going to do to the person? Detain the person? You want to jail the person until the court case? Who is going to pay for the bill? The speeder and what if the person does not want to pay the bill for the do you jail the person longer? What if you apply too much heavy handed approach by detaining the person longer than expected? What if their lawyers argue and win about being detain longer than necessary when the person co-operated? All just because of speeding on M1?

[b]In my case even I was let off at 100mph over taking police at 70mph during the day full view of all other traffics. I/we were not detained but obviously received court paper later on where we admitted guilt.[/b]

I have been watching Traffic Police on telly chasing speeding cars and very seldom do they even detain the driver apart from giving them fines or go to court. If the car is not taxed or roadworthy they just take the car away and Not even detaining the driver which is much more of a serious offense in my view. They only detain people who are criminals driving like criminals. i.e. stolen cars or put public in danger in the housing areas.

[b]Basically, your answer above is very simple. The law is powerless when it comes to Non-EU or even EU people breaking the speed limit if countries have no agreement.[/b] You can arrest them etc if the person(s)/visitor(s) come back or refuse them entry in future but other than that there is nothing the law can do to ordinary speeding. If there is accident and life involved that is another matter but if it is normal speeding nothing. Yes, it is wrong etc but the law is powerless especially if the person has left the country.

Quirrel - Member

mikewsmith - Member
Well they will find out when they land, the Hire car company will forward license details so regardless of what the put on the form if China cooperates their details will be provided. If a conviction is recorded then they can probably expect to face the consequences when they get back.

(Note: I am merely using China as an example but I am actually referring to all non-EU countries)

You can forward as much details as you wish to China but whether they co-operate or not is an entirely different matter because the person has not committed offense in China. Although s/he is Chinese citizen s/he is a private individual responsible for him/herself when s/he is abroad that I can be 100% sure. We have Chinese tourists in S.E.Asia and even we/govt complain to the Chinese govt, all the Chinese govt did was to "educate" the people by telling them to respect others when traveling that's all.

^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It's the norm here, and legal.

Was there not a driver of a fast GTR or something like that who came to the UK, did 200mph on the motorway and got caught a few years back? I think he was from Japan, not China.

If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or They could pass details on and he would obviously miss the court date then get more fines but as he was using a foreign license it will probably stop there especially if he is no longer in the uk

Other countries (Australia especially ) do say that if the fine is not paid they will potentially put a hold on visas being issued so you can't re-enter.

I wouldn't worry as it will probably come to at worst a fine.

Quirrel - Member

^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It's the norm here, and legal.

Was there not a driver of a fast GTR or something like that who came to the UK, did 200mph on the motorway and got caught a few years back? I think he was from Japan, not China.

Some of our roads have speed limit of 100km/h, so when they come over the 100km/h is also automatically "equal to 100mph".

I had to remind myself all the time when I first started to drive.

cornholio98 - Member
If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or They could pass details on and he would obviously miss the court date then get more fines but as he was using a foreign license it will probably stop there especially if he is no longer in the uk

The way forward is to get the car rental company to charge the driver through the credit card. Including all cost. Therefore, it will only be fines.

Other countries (Australia especially ) do say that if the fine is not paid they will potentially put a hold on visas being issued so you can't re-enter.

Yes, this make more sense but I do not think UK is doing this ... yet.

I wouldn't worry as it will probably come to at worst a fine.

That's what I have been saying the driver is going to get fine. After that it is up to the conscious of the person whether to pay the fine or not. If s/he is a genuine person s/he will pay the fine otherwise the person got off.

After that it is up to the conscious of the person whether to pay the fine or not. I

He's English and is moving home after years away. I don't know if the fine is automatically paid or not through the rental agency.

I suspect he'd pay the fine simply for peace of mind.

They're driving in a foreign country, in a car they don't know, at a good 50% above the speed limit? Yes, absolutely, armed police will be waiting for them if they arrive here, tell them not to come back.

For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane.

It's a well documented fact that speed limits don't apply if you're in a bit of a hurry.

We use KM in the far east and when I first drove here I had to constantly remind myself.

If you can't tell the difference between miles and kilometers, take the train.

^ I just find it hard when I get back to the UK not to undertake people there on the motorway. It's the norm here, and legal.

It's legal here too.

If the fine is issued to the rental company they will probably pay it and spank the credit card or

In this case they write to the tenants and if you are lucky the tenants pass the message to your friends. What happens after that depends on whether or not they want to fess up. I can't imagine that anyone will do any chasing, it just isn't worth it

It will sit on record though so if they got stopped again with the chinese licence it would get picked up.

Depends how risk averse they are. Not very if they drive at 120 I guess

Flash "singular" No camera in the box.

This is not true. The old rear facing Gatso cameras do flash twice and require a set of lines on the road so the speed can be verified by measuring the distance from two photo's. These did still flash twice if they run out of film.

But the current and more modern Truvelo forward facing cameras only flash once and don't need the graduated lines on the road to verify the speed by two photo's.

Normally if you get caught over 100mph then an automatic ban is on the cards unless you get a good solicitor to get the sentence reduced to points and a hefty fine. Though at 120mph you'd need a cracking solicitor. I suspect for a foreigner we'd have very little leverage to chase in any fines and would probably cost more in international bureaucracy to collect than the fine is worth so I suspect nothing will happen. If the driver still has a UK licence then that would get confiscated, but I doubt we have the databases to link a UK DVLA driver number to a foreign license to police any future visits. Probably would have been a different story if the Police actually pulled him over it would have been different.

But what if someone accidentally break the rules for genuine reason? (non-EU/UK citizen and from a country with no agreement with EU/UK)

For example, say someone from Indonesia has been caught speeding on M1 because the driver is on the way to the airport to catch the plane. The police issues the driver a ticket, the driver admits speeding but after that continues with driving to the airport to fly home never to return to UK again. How to deal with this case?

Of course there is no excuse for speeding but people are people some just forget. I am not talking about driving 34mph in 30mph zone, I am talking about M1 where I can easily drive at 100mph without knowing if I come from other country. [b]Note that they use KMph so they might simply have forgotten whatever ...[/b]

Driving at 100mph on a motorway has you travelling significantly faster than other traffic, this should raise alarm bells, if nothing else does.

I am amused that you've just discovered that EU citizens don't get treated differently, one of your reasons for disliking the EU. And I have to question how many other areas you are ignorant of. The field is probably leveller than what you reckon. 🙂

captainsasquatch - Member
I am amused that you've just discovered that EU citizens don't get treated differently, one of your reasons for disliking the EU. And I have to question how many other areas you are ignorant of. The field is probably leveller than what you reckon.

Of course it is different you cannot impose on a driver from Non-EU countries while in EU the chances are higher if there is a will to pursue the matter after all you are in EU. From far east or other non-EU countries the chance is nil ... 😆

Of course it is different you cannot impose on a driver from Non-EU countries while in EU the chances are higher if there is a will to pursue the matter after all you are in EU. From far east or other non-EU countries the chance is nil ...

captainsasquatch - Member
No it's not, the countries have to agree to share info whether in the EU or not. The chances are not higher at all. FACT.
You can't delude yourself on this one.

If you have different systems in EU like not co-operating by sharing info like this with each other then what is the point of EU. 😆

If you have different systems in EU like not co-operating by sharing info like this with each other then what is the point of EU.

Slight hijack here ... it's about speeding but now EU.

captainsasquatch - Member
I can see how thinking like that has caused mass mis-understanding of the workings of the EU, ...

You have inconsistencies in the EU system so no matter how you try to argue they are inconsistent and will never be fair or equal.

I imagine the EU is all about trade relations and stopping people fighting, allowing people to move around transferring skills and learning new things. Fortunately that's all being knocked on the head.

You've seen your arse, mate. 😆

😆