I was actually being serious about speaking to a union. If nothing else they should hopefully be able to advise what the correct action is to take and the expected outcome. Costs a couple of pints a month for membership and they may even give some free advice if it's an easy question.
To be honest though with that amount of removal from the source it's hard to say what, if anything happened. Did he take himself to hospital or did his employer? Was the equipment quarantined until further testing can be carried out? Was it properly maintained? Was he suitably qualified and experienced to be operating that equipment? Basically has the employer failed in their duty of care at any point? Conversely was the equipment being used according to approved guidance and procedures? Had the equipment been inspected prior to use? Had the employee failed in their own personal H&S obligations?
I don't expect you to answer these but that's the sort of questions I imagine would be asked to determine any sort of blame.
Why does he need to speak to a union? What expertise will they have with the individual event. I refer to my earlier point re "troublemaker". The last thing any business wants is the hse crawling all over them, geed up by an over zealous union man, when it may not be necessary. Speak to the management team, assess the incident and any injuries in house and go from there. If cougars girlfriends mum's brothers husbands wife or whatever it was is unhappy with the outcome and isn't happy with the hierarchy of risk management put in place then go from there.
And after the in house investigation report under riddor if it is deemed necessary. Varying time scales apply.
I was actually being serious about speaking to a union. If nothing else they should hopefully be able to advise what the correct action is to take and the expected outcome
Report the incident, await outcome of investigation.
That’ll be 2 pints thanks.
Unions also have and H&S role and depending on the size of the workplace etc there may well be a union safety rep on site or they may be covered by a full time officer from outside the workplace. H&S is a collaborative exercise but union involvement is there to protect the workforce and to ensure that emplyees do not get blamed for management failings
Every incident I have seen where there has been risk to people has always been multifactorial - the " Swiss cheese" model. A series of small failures create the conditions for a large failure.
It does not sound like a RIDDOR to me
Colleagues at one place I worked were testing the fire safety system and found it worked very well - by locking the doors and filling the room with CO2, whilst they were still in there.
Has workshop equipment testing been carried as required?
^This. If I'll effects have been suffered it would be reportable under RIDDOR.
PUWER come into play with regards to the working condition of the test equipment.
The incident would also involve COSHH regulations as well.
Complete the accident book and it all goes on from there. If gas escapes are on the HSE 'to do' list when the report gets to them his employer will get a visit. Don't hold your breath for anything to happen. (pun intended)
Why does he need to speak to a union? What expertise will they have with the individual event. I refer to my earlier point re “troublemaker”. The last thing any business wants is the hse crawling all over them, geed up by an over zealous union man
This tells me all I need to know about your understanding and dealings with unions, that is to say very little by the sound of it.
The thread title does include "What would Singletrack Do..."
So when the answer is ignore the facts, insult the OP, accuse him of 'asking for a (special) friend' and then finally disappear up it's own arse that is exactly What Singletrack Would Do...
In a nutshell. 🙂
And after the in house investigation report under riddor if it is deemed necessary. Varying time scales apply.
RIDDOR events need to be reported to the HSE within 10 days.
A car will only have around 1.5kg of refrigerant in it. I cant imagine that any release at this level woul even be detectable by smell.
In a previous life I was in a small room when a cylinder released 30kg of refrigerant in it. No noticeable smell to it.
No Riddor, no compensation.
Record as a near miss to start with and investigate further.
Loads of variables to this, the main one being not to run in there throwing accusations at the employer without considering whether all rules and precautions have been followed. Even something as simple as being aware to have a adequate ventilation (open shutter or turn on an extractor fan) but not doing so.
We had an incident where an employee went to hospital after finishing work. A relative rang up the manager and starting ranting at the boss about carbon monoxide poisoning, and then revealed that the suspected cause was the employees generator.
It turned out the generator had either been run whilst inside the van, or directly outside the door, which landed the employee on a disciplinary.
RIDDOR events need to be reported to the HSE within 10 days.
Not according to the hse
This tells me all I need to know about your understanding and dealings with unions, that is to say very little by the sound of it.
Posted 5 hours ago
Please enlighten me on the car garage union that would advise the "victim" of any more information than the initial proper investigation would come up with.
Writyson. Sorry you are right on timescales. I was thinking of this as a dangerous occurrence, however there is a variance of timescale depending on reporting to a medical practitioner. Below taken from the HSE website.
In cases of a reportable death, specified injury, or
dangerous occurrence, you must notify the enforcing
authority without delay. You must report within 10
days of the incident.
Over-seven-day injuries must be reported within 15
days of the incident.
Diseases should be reported as soon as a registered
medical practitioner (RMP) notifies you in writing that
your employee suffers from a reportable work-related
disease.
How to report
For general advice on how you should report, see the
RIDDOR pages on HSE’s website: www.hse.gov.uk/
riddor.
All incidents can be reported online, however a
telephone service remains for reporting fatal and
specified injuries only.
Your comments regarding companies and the use are very worrying though.
In what way? Internal review and investigation of an incident are surely the most proficient way of determining the cause and reason of any incident occurring in the workplace and to stop it happening again. I live in the real world and not one written in eutopia (sic).
In what way?
The last thing any business wants is the hse crawling all over them
No, the last thing any business needs is a serious injury or death on one of their sites. I know this through bitter experience. Employees have died within one of my previous employers doing the same job as me. "It could have been me" is a cliched term but apt in the situation I was in.
Is it this real world wrightyson?
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12370485.scottish-coal-fined-pound400000-over-double-death/
That's some utopia.
He shouldn’t be reporting it to the hse, that’s his employer’s job
No it isn't. Any employee can report against an employer. The hse website does seem to mention the protection you have when whistleblowing against an employer.
Oh sorry, did I condone death in the workplace in my post?
The hse are thread bare, they self fund, even though they dont like anyone to know that? The main problem is the hate grows for them when we know they fund themselves by fining "us."
I will repeat, any worthwhile employer will review and rework their working practices, take on board feed back from employees, and spend as much time as possible not trying to kill anyone.
The days of going to work and possibly not coming home should be left in the mines and mills.
Here is a link to the HSE site on rights of whistleblowers.
I am not saying it's the case here, but how often might an employer expect employees to use equipment they have been inadequately trained to use, or how often to employees cut corners or not follow risk assessments when using equipment. There could be many issues involved in this case. Speaking to a union rep is not necessarily a bad thing.
Member
Oh sorry, did I condone death in the workplace in my post?
No you didn't, but you quite clearly stated the last thing an employer needs. I dare you to disagree with me on that particular point!
The days of going to work and possibly not coming home should be left in the mines and mills.
Sadly it's not, and an atmosphere of perpetuating employees as troublemakers and that only employers should report issues to the HSE does not help.
Is there such a thing as a "union rep" for a garage? I'll be dead honest I don't know.
I've seen the hse in action, two up, dog with a bone. Justified as somebody lost a digit but a raft of changes didn't ease their intrigue! Now run by one of the most litigious American companies I've ever come across and the hse are regulated, (paid if theres a problem) visitors..
You work for the hse athgray?
For the record I did mention if after investigation the employee was unhappy they should approach the hse personslly...
Is there such a thing as a “union rep” for a garage? I’ll be dead honest I don’t know.
I’ve seen the hse in action, two up, dog with a bone. Justified as somebody lost a digit but a raft of changes didn’t ease their intrigue! Now run by one of the most litigious American companies I’ve ever come across and the hse are regulated, (paid if theres a problem) visitors..
I dont know if this garage worker had a union rep, however is slagging of the HSE supposed to bring employees with concerns about their employers back on side?
You may berate the HSE, however if an employee has worries about the health and safety provision of their employer where do you suggest they go?
Woaahhh there, I'm not berating the hse at all. From the outset if you read, I suggested the best practice was to work in house to reduce, blah blah you know the hierarchy im sure, the incidence of it happening again. In the op's case it would appear at this time a one off incidence of low consequence does not require the involvement of the hse.
If it happened again on monday then hell yeah we need to sort this.
I genuinely dont mean to come across as flippant.
You work for the hse athgray?
No I don't. I am now a teacher, but as a site based engineer for 15 years my responsibilities included monitoring fellow workers hearing for the Noise at Work Regs using a sound meter, inspecting ladders and power tools under PUWER, making sure that the COSHH folder was up to date and accessible to all, safe operation of blasting operations to ensure that we had no RIDDOR occurrences, conducting whole body and hand/arm vibration surveys and drug testing employees to comply with site rules which meant handling containers of piss and conducting site inductions to ensure awareness of site rules and risk assessments.
I have great respect for site agents who legally carry a large can, managing huge health and safety implications of those they work along side, whilst making sure they go home with a pay packet each day.
On the flip side, I have little respect for company H&S 'experts' with little real responsibility and teflon shoulders.
Regarding compensation, if you're thinking that it may be owed as it could have been a fatal incident, I'm afraid that doesn't count for much.
STW may or may not remember my thread from last year where I missed death by about two inches due to negligence on the part of a supermarket. I've learned that near misses count for nothing unless you can proove a resulting trauma (thankfully it turns out I'm quite resilient on that front).
Unless officially traumatised, you only get money for actual injury and out of pocket expenses.
STW classic this thread.
1. Person A uses garage air con equipment.
2. A bit later - a work colleague of Person A comes into room and asks if person A is ok, and comments that it smells of gas in the room.
3. After being asked this, Person A instantly, or very soon after, begins to feel sick, dizzy / faint, and experience difficulty breathing.
4. Person A attends hospital and has battery of blood tests, xrays etc ... where I presume there was no physical cause found for these claimed symptoms.
5. Person A is discharged from hospital with a standard `come back if you have any further symptoms' ...
6. Cougar asking if Person A can claim compensation for this.
My own thoughts are that Person A should pay the NHS compensation for wasting their time.
Refrigerant doesn't smell of "gas" assuming generic synthetic methane smell .....
Maybe your friend farted violently.?
I’ve learned that near misses count for nothing unless you can proove a resulting trauma
Well, I met him today so have a bit more information but not much.
He almost collapsed at work, which is why they took him to hospital. The concern was seemingly carbon monoxide poisoning (whether this is a primary component in aircon systems or there were other contributory factors involved, or even whether this was something someone made up even, I don't know at this juncture).
Apparently he spent most of Saturday in tears, presumably as shock / realisation hit. He said (not to me) that he really doesn't want to go back to work on Monday.
STW classic this thread.
Only reading the OP and then skipping to the end to have a pop? Yeah, pretty typical of some posters.
Only reading the OP and then skipping to the end to have a pop? Yeah, pretty typical of some posters.
in his defence - having read the whole thing he didnt miss a thing. Zero facts were added to story after the OP
If your special friend doesn’t go back to work due to “the incident” , the shit really should hit the fan and it becomes a lost time accident too. Also reportable.
I also have to agree with wrightson, on the first page , “reportable riddor etc”... ha. 😉
in his defence – having read the whole thing he didnt miss a thing. Zero facts were added to story after the OP
True, but I was thinking mostly around the final point.
If your special friend doesn’t go back to work due to “the incident” , the shit really should hit the fan and it becomes a lost time accident too. Also reportable.
It sounds now like he's going to go to the doctor tomorrow with a view to getting signed off for a couple of weeks. If nothing else it'll give him time to process what's happened rather than making any rash decisions.
Any physical symptoms aside, he's been rather badly shaken by the whole thing.
Reportable to whom?
For what difference it makes if any,
The lad in question is quite young, I think he turns 22 at the end of the year. He's been doing an apprenticeship there for three or four years.
Hse.
Advise him to go to work.
My daft, lazy cousin fell off a ladder , got a “sore” ankle & had a few days off. His employer finished him as soon as possible after the investigation etc was over.
My daft, lazy cousin fell off a ladder , got a “sore” ankle & had a few days off. His employer finished him as soon as possible after the investigation etc was over.
TJ to the forum.
Yeah something is missing from that story.
A few weeks off for what reason?
Shaken by the whole thing after an Aircon didn't degas fully?
The motor trades gone soft
Well, carbon monoxide doesn't smell either which is why it's known as a silent killer.
This gas is certainly not related to an Aircon system but is related to combustion such as boilers and car exhausts.
Certainly still more to come out.......
r134A will displace oxygen in the air at low lying points - so if he was say lying down in a pit under the car
Barring that its unlikely the air con had anything to do with it or amateur bodgers would be keeling over all over the land .
doesnt acount for the gas smell.
I can assure you I did read the whole thread. And whilst I can understand the lad seems a very sensitive person, this certainly does not seem something you would expect a typical 21 year old mechanic to need to take a couple weeks off for.
From the details you have told us it sounds more plausible that the lad had a panic attack when his colleague mentioned smelling gas; his symptoms certainly sound more like a panic attack/anxiety.
Focusing straight on a compensation claim for this is even more pathetic though.
Cougar wrote:
It sounds now like he’s going to go to the doctor tomorrow with a view to getting signed off for a couple of weeks. If nothing else it’ll give him time to process what’s happened rather than making any rash decisions.
Any physical symptoms aside, he’s been rather badly shaken by the whole thing.
Reportable to whom?
Signed off with what exactly?
Long story short, he’s spent the afternoon in hospital for a battery of blood tests, X-rays etc. They’ve now discharged him
Seems there is nothing medically wrong or is a case wanting as much money as he can extract? Do hope his employer doesn't lurk here
The young lad involved in this minor work place incident would benefit more from objective words of reassurrance from an older & wiser adult putting things into perspective and getting him back to work asap - before his employers label him a bit of a liability and fire him off at the earliest opportunity..
Filling his head with thoughts of compo claims and taking several weeks off on the sick is poor handling of the issue to be perfectly blunt.
Hes putting his own job in jeopardy following such advice ......
It sounds now like he’s going to go to the doctor tomorrow with a view to getting signed off for a couple of weeks. If nothing else it’ll give him time to process what’s happened rather than making any rash decisions.
Any physical symptoms aside, he’s been rather badly shaken by the whole thing.
If he does he'll probably find himself unemployed at the first "convenient" opportunity.
He's not hurt, his best option is to get back to work and discuss what might have happened. That or find another line of work. Is he happy with what he's doing, in general and with his current employer ?
This will sound harsh but assuming he's genuinely affected and not just milking it he needs to go into work and find out what happened not sit at home crying about it.
It can only really be 2 things, faulty machine in which case there's probably not much he could have done about it. Or the other option is he made a mistake and needs to learn a lesson from it. Has he been trained properly? You said the other guy walked in and noticed it so why didn't he?
You said he's been there a few years so I'm guessing he's a decent lad but just going off sick will more than likely harm his career prospects, you can argue all day whether it's right or wrong for employers do to it but that's what happens in reality.
He would be better off going in and then having a chat with his boss and explaining how much its affected him if it really is that bad.
