Acceptance

Posted by: gofasterstripes

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I have to find a way to prevent my feelings doing damage 

Why?

Obviously you don't want to give too much away, which I get, but whatever has happened is clearly damaging you. How long can that last? Not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious.

Posted by: gofasterstripes

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I wonder, can anyone share a story of how they managed to find peace with an event that went against their wishes?

Let's say you have to live with a decision that was outside of your control, impactful to you and went against your desires. This could be very troubling, if you cannot find the way to let it go.

Please may we hear you stories or strategies for accepting and moving on? 

Counselling basically. I know it's crashingly obvious, but working with someone who can help you understand the stuff you're struggling to deal with can be really powerful. You need the right counsellor for you, someone you feel comfortable with and can relate to, but at the same time is outside your life. It might be that understanding why you find it so difficult to cope with this 'decision', and finding a way to move past it, changes more than just your response to that particular event. It's not someone rearranging the contents of your skull, more helping you to look at how you're wired from a slightly different angle. 

I know that some people are reluctant to embrace any sort of therapy, but I figure if you broke your arm or leg, you wouldn't hesitate to go to A&E. if you brain is 'broken', why wouldn't you do the same thing? I know that's a little trite, but it's always felt like a not unreasonable analogy to me. 

>how long can this last?

The feeling? It's lasted months already and it's hurting me that I even feel this way. I am unable to, for the first time in my life, get over it.... And it hurts, and it would hurt others if I told them this thing was eating at me. 

>therapy

Well, yes, but there's a few things as overhead. First also is the dawning realisation that this time I even need help. Further, I've not got any set up. It's also true that there was (very limited) therapy involved earlier, at the time this started. At the end they said they'd never encountered such strength of feeling and that they could not help me. I was shocked, they were the pros. Tbh I was also quite angry with that.

We can't solve my issue here in public, or course, but the discussion is already very valuable to me. Thank you.

In general I tend to try to look at the bigger picture to get a sense of perspective.

I.e. in the context of my whole life, up down and start to finish, how important, really, in the grand scheme of things is this this thing that is niggling me?

Usually it doesn't really mean very much at all, so I just shrug, move on, and go and ride my bike

let's say you were denied a promotion and you're deeply unhappy about it, you feel it was unfair- personally motivated that you were denied and you keep feeling that anger interfering with your work.

okay so it's not really about work, but this is what I'll go with. Something like this happened to a colleague recently. Was about to take up a role on significant promotion when instruction came from the v top to stop the process, and someone has been slotted in sideways out of nowhere. 

I wasn't closely involved but knew this was happening. Had a catch-up/closure call last week as this was someone I used to line manage, and I'm moving on... It's all clearly still v raw - a major, horrible, unfair and unnecessary slap in the face. Her first reaction she said was to want to resign but in the last fortnight she'd had a couple of good meetings about a big new project, that she really wants to do, and was introduced to the sponsor as "this is A, she's brilliant [which she is btw], you couldn't be in better hands". 

So basically she's staying with it and focusing on the actual work (which is valuable) and delivering for the folks who'll benefit from it. This may not work if your employer is a tobacco company, in which case change jobs. But that's how I've tried to deal with knockbacks - focus on what matters. Also re my colleague - I don't worry too much about good people, they'll do okay in the long run. (The hard part is being one.) 

Oh last thing - if intrusive bitter thoughts come at bedtime as can happen, it's worth learning some get to sleep techniques to switch your brain off counter-productive dwelling on things.  

I m loving the 4% idiot club.  Funny thing is I reckon the members don't actually think they are in it.  I have an idiot neighbour who upsets everyone around him, a few neighbours got together to try and reason with him.  Should have known really, he got really defensive and angrier.

Firstly....  @Stanley respect, fella. Incredibly enlightened position. It's one I've always aspired to and as I've aged have got better at.... Accept reality. Forget the what ifs. Spend time focusing on the positives.

Never worried about promotions.

Been self employed since age 19, so the last 25 years or so.... Always relied on me being me and doing what I do to the best of my abilities. Walked often when I've not been happy and not really given it much thought after the event..

Despite not having a German Geselle qualification I can demand the same prices that a Meister does so I guess my skill in the field speaks for itself. 

Some of the worst things that have happened in my life have happened because "nice" people let it happen. 

Recently read a thread on Reddit about the difference between a nice man and a good man.  Consensus was that a good man has morals and isn't there to make people happy for the sake of making them happy, but will stand up for what they believe in.

sort of therapy, but I figure if you broke your arm or leg, you wouldn

After having to see a psychiatrist (because the German system assumed that I had a problem with drugs) and having lots of acquaintances that visit them, I'm of the opinion that those that rely on them are not able to reflect on their life and circumstances without any self-reflection and need someone to tell them either where they went wrong or who in their life they need to blame. I'm aware that this makes me look like a **** in some people's eyes. (Add to this the current trend of being diagnosed with ADHD or autism too explain away any failings.*)

*My psychiatrist and a couple of friends with kids labelled with autism labelled me with having ADHD 

Was back in civilisation for the first time in a few weeks and it made me realise that being amongst lots of people isn't good for my wellbeing.

This pretty much sums it up for me..... With or without the misunderstanding..

https://youtube.com/shorts/DjbgP2Fo6-c?si=ycBek7WeNu9fzn5V

Posted by: gofasterstripes

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Well, yes, but there's a few things as overhead. First also is the dawning realisation that this time I even need help. Further, I've not got any set up. It's also true that there was (very limited) therapy involved earlier, at the time this started. At the end they said they'd never encountered such strength of feeling and that they could not help me. I was shocked, they were the pros. Tbh I was also quite angry with that.

The most vested I've ever seen anyone get in things they can't change is custody battles.  People do all sorts of weird stuff, spend huge amounts of money and invest enormous emotional energy in it, for quite understandable reasons.  

Someone who was very cynical about therapy recently told me that they had eventually realised the answer wasn't to look for a doctor or mechanic who could go in and fix your problem - it was about finding a teacher who could help you learn how to manage it yourself.  If you needed help to master cycling fitness or technique, you would pay a coach.  I think we (as society) have fallen into the trap of thinking about therapy as though it is a mental health intervention.  If we saw it as coaching the stigma would flip from "oh he needs therapy" to "wow he's really focused on getting better".  Just like finding a sports coach, you won't always find a good fit first time - they aren't necessarily bad coaches, just their approach and your mindset might not gel.

Posted by: gofasterstripes

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>how long can this last?

The feeling? It's lasted months already and it's hurting me that I even feel this way. I am unable to, for the first time in my life, get over it.... And it hurts, and it would hurt others if I told them this thing was eating at me. 

 

>therapy

Well, yes, but there's a few things as overhead. First also is the dawning realisation that this time I even need help. Further, I've not got any set up. It's also true that there was (very limited) therapy involved earlier, at the time this started. At the end they said they'd never encountered such strength of feeling and that they could not help me. I was shocked, they were the pros. Tbh I was also quite angry with that.

The point where I looked for help was similarly when I realised that I was unable to move on from an emotionally traumatic experience and had been stuck in a loop for months. It wasn't something that friends could, with the best will in the world, help me with. 

I was lucky in that I found a local counsellor who I could really relate to, who used a system of therapy that clicked with me. In a way it was the best thing I ever did, understanding why I found it so hard to cope with what had happened to me made me realise it was part of a whole, coherent pattern of how I behaved and gave me ways of moving forwards. I ended up reframing the trauma ultimately as something that had the plus side of triggering a process that changed the way I was in the world in a positive way. I'd still rather not have been through the whole horrible thing, but it did eventually have an upside. I didn't go into counselling with that expectation btw, I just wanted to stop drowning. 

I would find a different, better counsellor, go in with an open mind and a willingness to be curious. As with anything else, there are good counsellors and not so good ones. I've had experience of both. As someone has already said, counselling is about helping you find a way through your problems, not 'fixing' them for you, so you have to be open to exploring stuff that's maybe uncomfortable and difficult, but on the plus side, finding the place you're in almost unbearable is a pretty good incentive to do that - what do you have to lose?

I don't know if that's any help, but your comment about being unable to move past something for the first time in your life chimed with me and counselling was how I moved on when I was in a similar sort of situation. 

As a footnote: a good counsellor will absolutely not judge you in the way that your friends might, that's part of the point of the process, they don't have a vested interest in maintaining a friendship and shouldn't tell you what they think you want to know. 

If dealing with a narcissist then you have absolutely no chance. Either walk away or do as little as necessary to make sure there are no regrets in the future. I'm performing a 'duty' atm. The duty isn't for the sake of the narcissist, it's for my sake. 

I find this thread quite strange. I totally accept that is a refection of me. There's little here I relate to in the slightest. Seems to be two groups. One group reading between the lines and giving genuine advice. I almost find this the strangest, especially with regard to people's relationship to employment - far from my experience at all. But also the reading between the lines bit, it's almost like a secret I don't know about, like an outsider to an in-group. Counselling? Can't pay take it away. The other group just listing random things they had to accept in life. I have a awkward relationship with acceptance. Well an awkward relationship with most things ha. Luckily though I have a trendy label to waive responsibility for my failings. Whoop party time 🥂 .

Your reply confuses me a little.

Yes, this is intentionally opaque. I'm referring to an ongoing issue that I cannot let go of, and which has the potential to echo around my life and those around me. I don't want it spelled out online tbh, but i find a sketchy discussion works fine to provide inspiration and ideas for me.

I am a person who rides life with the reigns loose, usually fairly unfussy. Hell, I moved country at the toss of a coin.

Now my foot is stuck in the stirrup, twisting and hurting and with the potential to give bad inputs to the horse (others) unless I hold it twisted.

I need to get my foot out and I don't know how. Each step hurts again and I have to find a solution before damage is done or the course is changed by my pain and reaction to it.

Make sense?

Yes it makes sense. Hoped it wouldn't come across as criticism, it was just an observation on how a lot of what people are discussing a feels quite distant to me. Sorry you're struggling right now.

Have you heard of or looked at dialectical behaviour therapy  (DBT). I don't have experience but it was recommended by the clinicians who gave my autism diagnosis... Which reminds me, the sarcasm at the end of my post was only in response to Alpin 😬

From Wikipedia: DBT evolved into a process in which the therapist and client work with acceptance and change-oriented strategies and ultimately balance and synthesize them

Maybe topic adjacent...

Last job I had a relentless micro manager and our department was being 'restructured'...
I was basically 'quiet quitting' anyway but it's the kind of environment where they like to see constant improvement (read; do more work and take on more responsibility for a token salary raise).

But it looks bad if you just want to do your job, get paid and go home, apparently just wanting to do you current job at a fair market rate is 'not being a team player' or something.

So I applied for one of the 'promotions' on offer to keep up appearances with absolutely no intention of getting the job.

So I applied, and gave a 'spud from train spotting' style interview... I found it hilarious, I don't think they clocked onto what I was doing which made it even more funny... I resigned about 6 months later in my own time and on my own terms... Probably wasted a shed load of company time and resources in the process, because, well, F those AH's lol

Sounds like that was what you needed. Good for you.

Posted by: gofasterstripes

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Sounds like that was what you needed. Good for you.

It's good and it's not... I learned I need to be highly suspicious of small promotions as I'm not going to do a 65k job for 35k or whatever.

I'm a bit jaded to be honest, but in the spirit of the thread.. Sometimes it's worth cutting your losses and moving on.

I was on about 35k and I know damn well a new hire to replace me, the company would have to pony up a salary of 50k+ to replace me...I'd have probably accepted a 10k raise whilst still being a cheap and experienced employee.

It's important to mentally draw a line though.

But it's water under the bridge... It's hard to let go when you feel you've been taken for a mug, but letting go is crucial so you can move onward and upward with minimal baggage.

Posted by: sirromj

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The other group just listing random things they had to accept in life.

Wtf?! Did you not read the OP's original post? They literally asked for others' stories regarding acceptance. 

4%?

Your experience Stanley was definitely not what I had in mind when I referred to "just listing random things".

It's working for me 🙂

For me - a little of what Scotroutes says - I have learnt to accept the things I can do nothing about and to be content with doing my best to change things where I have any influence no matter how little that influence is.  Once I have done what I can I can be content

I have also had professional help and used self care psychological techniques which has made a huge difference

Plus the usual things - walking / cycling in the countryside and taking pleasure in simple things, spending time with friends

Nowhere near as serious an example as some of the above but i'm struggling a little at the moment with workmates' apathy to a worsening of my/our work/life balance.

Shift system proposal for 12 months time will shorten our working day but add over 50 working days to the year.  i seem to be in a minority of two (there are 10 of us) that seem overly bothered by it and i cant seem to shake my frustration at this apathy.

im lying in bed at night going through imaginary arguments with gaffers, playing through future union branch meetings in my head, how id maybe try and gee the others up, but at the end of the day if theyre not willing to fight for what we have now then theyre just not.

so.... im definitely one for only worrying about things i can change/influence and accepting the things that i cant change, but this doesnt feel like something i/we cant change if we all stuck together.  frustrating!

it would feel wrong to just accept this proposal without opposing it in some way, but i guess if nobody else is willing to stick their heads above the parapet and fight, then i have to find some way of putting it in the fk-it bucket.

yes i could leave (and im putting out feelers now), and ive been told my CV would be a good one with many years fire service experience and management, but who realistically would want to take on a manager in their 60's who would be retiring in a few years time.  (and no, i cant afford to retire yet 😀 )

it would feel wrong to just accept this proposal without opposing it in some way, but i guess if nobody else is willing to stick their heads above the parapet and fight, then i have to find some way of putting it in the fk-it bucket.

Have you considered that the others may prefer what's on the table? So not apathy but actually receptive (or at least neutral) to the plan.

yes i could leave (and im putting out feelers now), and ive been told my CV would be a good one with many years fire service experience and management, but who realistically would want to take on a manager in their 60's who would be retiring in a few years time.  (and no, i cant afford to retire yet)

I don't think hiring a manager in their 60s who only wants to coast to retirement in a few years time is the barrier you think it is.  I've heard the opposite conversations - "he's got career ambitions, he'll be moving on in 2 yrs, just about the time we've taught him to be a decent manager" and "we only have secure funding for 1/2/3 yrs so I'm worried about taking on someone permanent".  BUT unless your current work pattern is industry norm then you might be jumping ship to more, shorter days anyway.   

im lying in bed at night going through imaginary arguments with gaffers, playing through future union branch meetings in my head, how id maybe try and gee the others up, but at the end of the day if theyre not willing to fight for what we have now then theyre just not.

so.... im definitely one for only worrying about things i can change/influence and accepting the things that i cant change, but this doesnt feel like something i/we cant change if we all stuck together.  frustrating!

I reckon if you refocused that mental energy into getting a new role rather than concentrating on the new shift system you have less influence over, you'd smash a new job in no time! 

Have you considered that the others may prefer what's on the table? So not apathy but actually receptive (or at least neutral) to the plan.

they dont.  weve all chatted about it, everybody agrees its sh1t, but...... will they fight for it?  i dont think so.  branch meeting next week to thrash it out but there doesnt seem to be much of a militant air about them at the mo.

I don't think hiring a manager in their 60s who only wants to coast to retirement in a few years time is the barrier you think it is.  I've heard the opposite conversations - "he's got career ambitions, he'll be moving on in 2 yrs, just about the time we've taught him to be a decent manager" and "we only have secure funding for 1/2/3 yrs so I'm worried about taking on someone permanent".  BUT unless your current work pattern is industry norm then you might be jumping ship to more, shorter days anyway. 

interesting that you think that, ive put some feelers out but early days yet.  current pattern is 5 on 4 off so unlikely to find something that good in a managerial position i guess.

I reckon if you refocused that mental energy into getting a new role rather than concentrating on the new shift system you have less influence over, you'd smash a new job in no time! 

you may be right.  we have a year before it happens, so enough time to have a serious think.  as for a new role in the service, theres nothing sideways that pays the same, and to go up there are soooo many hoops to jump through, and corporate, strategic interviews that id never pass.  nor would i want one of those roles really, a lot of yes sir no sir three bags full sir nonsense that just isnt me (clues in the username) 😀 

By way of a hello, I'm back - I've been away for a bit - self-enforced absence while I sorted some stuff, and now trying to sort myself out. More in a minute.

The arguing on here (politics threads mainly, with me a factor in that) was getting me down so I have dropped out completely from them. I've dipped in occasionally, but given I was a factor in the constant bickering and sniping I'm comforted that in being absent from them, nothing's changed so I don't think I was the cause. Anyway....where have I been? And why this thread to rejoin on?

My Mum died a bit over 2 years ago. She had a fall and broke her femur and was taken into hospital. Because she had several complicating factors (kidney failure, dialysis, poor circulation) they decided to plaster and hope for a natural fix, rather than an op that would be first choice for a younger fitter patient. We didn't disagree at the time and I still think that was appropriate at the time given the circumstances.

However - from there on it went wrong. I could write pages but in summary terms, her fracture didn't heal, and more than that at some point in her stay it displaced so she had an open fracture with bone piercing the skin under her plaster.

She also received substandard general nursing care while on the ward, as a result developed pressure sores that deteriorated so that in the end she had several unstageable (deep tissue, through skin and other tissue reaching bone) infected ulcers. 

When the hospital discovered the leg they transferred her to a larger hospital in the area with the trauma care they had but she was too far gone, and they recommended stopping treatment which by then would have been amputation and months if not years of constant redressing. So we agreed to palliative care plans and she died 2 days later, 6 weeks after the fall, with my Dad, her husband of 62 years sat with her.

The trauma team were incredulous at the state she'd been allowed to get into, and referred to the coroner. That was Nov 2023. The first hospital ran a serious incident investigation. A friend of mine who has experience of elderly nursing reviewed docs and said that there were massive gaps in her care. The hospital investigation was incompetent, delayed, failed to address key issues we'd raised as the family and failed to consider key evidence (eg: photos taken by the hospital) in assessing the causes. As a result the report was rejected by me 3 times and took nearly two years to complete. 

In the end we signed it off and the coroner's inquest took place in October this year. It was a very thorough process, taking over 6 hours of evidence from various places. In the verdict the coroner stopped short of declaring that the lack of care caused the death because with her condition it is impossible to say with certainty that she wouldn't have died anyway. She did however comment for the record that they can't say with certainty that it didn't cause it. No S28 orders were issued because of the time elapsed and in which (with credit here) the hospital has tightened up and improved several procedures that were lax.

So, acceptance. Here's where I'm struggling. On leaving the court, I had an overwhelming sense of relief that it was all over, and no small comfort that in not just accepting substandard investigation, a proper evaluation and corrective actions were made that should reduce chances of it happening again. That's what I keep reminding myself.

But another part of me feels that people have 'got away with it'. There were major gaps in her care and while I know the actual nursing staff are overworked, etc., opportunities to escalate and/or for senior staff to intervene were repeatedly missed. And that's where I'm struggling because in the end my Mum lay for several days at least with infected deep tissue wounds and an open infected fracture under her cast. If you're going to die, you don't deserve to die like that. And it feels like no-one has been held accountable (obvs don't know any details of internal processes)

I'm not doing so well, TBH, although this is third Christmas since, first one was obviously screwed up, second we worked hard to not have it screwed up but this is the first I honestly feel that I'm without Mum. And so as for acceptance, part of me needs to just move on now and part of me still feels really ****ing angry at individuals, organisations, and the world in general and I don't want to move on until that rage abates. I'm not sure how to make it abate though. Maybe just time.

Thanks if you read this far. 

Jonv - I would get some professional help.  Perhaps not now but in the future.  Getting help greatly helped me in my grief