[Closed] About to be sacked and devastated

Good luck Mog.

Sorry, I've got nothing useful to say, but that situation sucks and I feel for you mate.

The company's terrible and my direct manager is horrendous and I really don't like it there,

Focus on that point. Both times I've been let go I've found better jobs after. Hang in there..

Here's hoping that it doesn't come to a dismissal mate

Seek advice to ensure that everything is fair - and bring a representative to any meetings (you'll be entitled to one if linked to poor performance or misconduct)

Employment law really sides with the employee - so take notes on everything and make sure you are treated fairly

Keep calm and don't let them see that its getting to you

What line of work are you in?

Head up. Look for a silver lining (sounds like a poor place to work anyway)
You'll survive.
I was made redundant at the beginning of the banking fiasco/recession. I'm happy now and only wear a tie to funerals.

Mog.

Good luck.

Cant help much apart from this happened to me. I now explain the missing 6 months on my CV as "looking after my little girl whilst my wife pushed for a promotion" no one has ever cottoned on to my little white lie.

Its their loss.

Any way you could go back to your old job or work more flexibly for them?

Also, try to get CV sorted to get in the mood for being in the job market again?

Other than that, do not be too down. It might be a blessing in disguise. Nice of them to let you stew over the weekend - perhaps in the hope you will jump first? Do not make it easy for them even if you might actually want to leave.

Good luck.

Chin up Mog, hope things work out for you.

Firstly, good luck. I hope it goes in your favour.

Secondly, if it does go the wrong way, do you feel you have been professional and have conducted yourself correctly? I only ask this because if you have, then your paper trail of emails, personal notes etc will back this up.
A poorly organised company can be very frustrating to work for, especially if you are used to working with good people and working practices.

Hopefully they will give you a development plan and an opportunity to improve. It shouldn't be straight to dismissal or failed probation if this is the first you have heard of this so called poor performance. Believe in yourself and ask for the opportunity. Good luck.

you'll get to see the kid even more now, every cloud?

You don't mention what the job is, are your skills transferable to another line of work?

If it goes that way, you'll get through it. All the "shame" type stuff is in your head only. FWIW I've been through similar, I'm not "sorted" now but a hell of a lot happier not to be earning money for my previous wee shite of a boss.

I have to disagree with the above post which said that employment law is skewed in favour of the employee - it's not - it's totally employercentric and becoming more so every year - we have some of the most lax labour laws in the western world.

None the less - poor performance review doesn't mean you will be sacked, and I'd expect that you would be given an opportunity to rectify any problems which are outlined at the review, I would also expect that any formal processes would outline the exact nature of the problem *before* the meeting took place, and that any outcomes had clear time basis and that the opportunity for assistance for you to ensure that you can meet them is given (a mentor to help as a minimum).

I've represented dozens of people in performance reviews and similar and very few of them were sacked at the first one, and those who were sacked often went because they failed to do what they said they would and could do in the meetings.

If you've performed badly, then...

But if you think that you've not you have two options:

1 Just agree with everything they say, and try to hang on while you look elsewhere.

2 Fight them, with which they'll either let you go straight away or you'll be gone soon - so look elsewhere.

Also beware 'resigning' if you want/need to sign-on.

Difficult time. Hope it goes better then you think.

Process is the most important thing here, if they get the process right then even though it may not be "right" to dismiss as a result of unsuccessful probation, then they can.

Have you had previous performance meetings where your (alleged) shortcomings have been highlighted?

Unfortunately a probation is much easier to end than a years work.

Best of luck!

What is it you do??

Could be worse, I turned 41 last week!

Good luck tomorrow.

Thanks all.
I think it is fair. I haven't met their targets (which I felt were unachievable and raised this at every review). I inherited an underperforming team who were 4 members down out of a structure of 12. Most figures have gone in the right direction, but not to the heights they wanted.
I've only been there 6 months so looks like I'm entitled to very little, nay, nothing.
The whole point of the move was to support my young family and see them more and now I can't afford the roof over their heads.

Even if the worst happens, you can get another job. You don't have to put the reason for why you left on your CV, so no stigma attached.

The message you take home is most important, so focus on 'the poor management and lack of training / guidance meant I couldn't do my best' rather than 'I failed / am useless etc'.

All the best for tomorrow and remember, there are other jobs out there!

Feel for you bud , good luck and keep your head held high,actually I don't think they have given you enough notice to enable you to find/ arrange representation also I hope they sent you a job at risk letter first ? If not I'm sure they should do.
If your backs against the wall see what they are willing to do pay off wise / reference etc as it becomes messy if they give you a bad ref.
Anyway positive vibes sent your way fella,you never know was around the corner.

What is it you do??

I was told about a 'poor performance meeting'

not much?

put out the feelers at your old job if you've only been gone 6 months? surely you still know people if you were there 7 years, one would assume you did not burn bridges

Maybe....go on the offensive......tell the boss that it's pretty obvious they don't like you and obviously just want any excuse to out you. Tell them to give you a year's wages and you will go quietly otherwise there will be tribunals and other shit to pay for them.

I've spent sleepless nights over tons of shit before and it never was worth it....won't stop me from doing the same when I'm worried about something in the future though.

Good luck

What line of work Mog?
And whereabouts in the country?

Don't threaten tribunals, you only get those after 1 year (unless you can show discrimination).

Mog you havent been sacked yet, wait and see wht happens, usually there will be a warning letter and a chat with your managers.

Sometimes we all make mistakes leaving a job we like to one we hate, been there, and been sacked by letter as i was off sick,and i resigned on the same day said the date on my resignation letter.

I'd recommend getting some advice pronto...cab are pretty good

not much?

Not funny?

Maybe....go on the offensive......tell the boss that it's pretty obvious they don't like you and obviously just want any excuse to out you. Tell them to give you a year's wages and you will go quietly otherwise there will be tribunals and other shit to pay for them.

If you've only been there 6 months you have no right to claim for unfair dismissal. So they can pretty much get rid of you for anything...

It's not worth the fight, anger only eats you up inside and you're better off focusing your energy on finding a better job.

not much?

Pretty offensive and uncalled for.

Chin up. Its never as bad as you think and the fact you've had a few days to think about it has made it seem a hell of a lot worse in your head.
Ask lots of questions. Don't let them off the hook.
1, if this is the first time your "poor performance" has been mentioned then push them as to why it has gotten this far without it being bought to you attention.
2, if not then ask for examples of where your performance had not met the expected standards since the last conversation.

There are too many companies that get rid of probationary staff just because it's easy. Just don't make it easy for a crap boss.

Maybe....go on the offensive......tell the boss that it's pretty obvious they don't like you and obviously just want any excuse to out you. Tell them to give you a year's wages and you will go quietly otherwise there will be tribunals and other shit to pay for them.

Yep, that'll work when he's only been there 6 months and is on probation

If you do get sacked & the meeting is early you could be out on the trails by 1pm.

If you're being reviewed, I reckon they have to give you a chance to improve..
Be ready to answer the criticisms in as diplomatic and positive way as possible.
If they are asking you to improve try and get them on side with working towards improvements- if it doesn't happen it's not just your fault!
Get them to note everything down in writing at the meeting for future reference..
Hang on as long as you can, if need be and if you're sacked at least you'll get some help till you find something else.
Try and stay positive..

I haven't met their [b]targets (which I felt were unachievable and raised this at every review[/b]). I [b]inherited an underperforming team who were 4 members down[/b] out of a structure of 12. Most[b] figures have gone in the right direction[/b], but not to the heights they wanted.

Those are the bits to focus on in any discussion about performance.

Accept your part of the responsibility

But make sure they accept their part too, if you believe that's the way it is.

It's not worth the fight, anger only eats you up inside and you're better off focusing your energy on finding a better job.

This is the truth.

Hope you get something better soon.

ACAS also offer advice, there is a phone number on their website.

I've had almost exactly the same happen to me - nearly 2 years ago now. A VERY well known insurance company. Boss was utterly out of his depth (I think deliberately, to get him out) and the company was an utter mess. I would never had taken the job if I'd known. (I'm guessing you wouldn't either.)
As I hadn't actually messed anything up a load of half-truths were used to 'prove' I had to be 'managed out'.
Luckily I have a mate who's an HR Director who's seen this kind of game many many times and he said just get out and get on with your life.
That was excellent advice. I'm now far better paid and in a much less stressful role elsewhere. Working for an incompetent boss in a struggling company who aren't willing to listen to you is incredibly unhealthy and you are far, far better off out.
Don't forget, you told them the targets were impossible and you've been proved right. It doesn't sound like your judgement or ability are the issue here, simply their level of maturity to take your views on board and cowardlyness in dealing with the situation you predicted...

So overall, sounds like you're best off out of an unhealthy organisation. I would give your old company a call if you left on good terms and liked it there...

Good luck tomorrow and don't let the gits grind you down. Karma comes round (my boss lost his job a few months after me...) 🙂

paulosoxo - Member

not much?

Not funny?

I don't know - put a smile on my face.

I'd rather not say too much about the job/location as posting it on a public forum may not be my best move.

dirtyrider - Member
put out the feelers at your old job if you've only been gone 6 months? surely you still know people if you were there 7 years, one would assume you did not burn bridges

No, not at all - left with good relationships but management there have changed and they have no vacancies. I'd be going back to the reason I left anyway so would be still looking to leave.

I guess it's a pride thing more than anything (oh, and largely financial). I think I've been professional and courteous throughout my time there but have been given unachievable targets with the resource I had (which I guess I'm bound to say). Hand on heart though, I don't know what else I could've done.

I've been given the option of taking a colleague in with me, but I only had the invite on Friday and techincally read it this morning as I was on leave (although read it on Sat from home). I don't think it'll change anything though, minds will already be made up.

Still, it's not raining.

just don't make it easy for a crap boss

Dead on. I reckon a lot of these issues are caused by weak managers who are looking after their own skin.

If you play it smart, you can drag this out while you find something else.

I know that you do not have much leverage as you are still on probation, but most places still recoil at outright sacking with little notice.

Go in and play it straight. Try to see if your boss is the junior player in the meeting. If so, you might be able to gain something from the other person, particularly if your boss is as crap as you say.

was made redundant just b4 xmas, first time ever ive not been employed/ in education in 18 years of adulthood

moneys obviously a worry, but ive had a great xmas with family, and spending loads of time with the wife and kids 2yrs & 2months

got several diy projects on the go , rebuilding a bike and generally having fun

had my first interview today and even if i dont get the job its opened me up to the potential of a different career

so chin up and good luck!

Maybe....go on the offensive......tell the boss that it's pretty obvious they don't like you and obviously just want any excuse to out you. Tell them to give you a year's wages and you will go quietly otherwise there will be tribunals and other shit to pay for them.

I don't know - put a smile on my face.

I've been given the option of taking a colleague in with me

does the boss have a token family member working for them? take them 😀

I think I've been professional and courteous throughout my time there but have been given unachievable targets with the resource I had (which I guess I'm bound to say). Hand on heart though, I don't know what else I could've done.

maybe its a case of your face doesn't fit?

Are you sure its all about you !
Also 6 months is a long time to come to such conclusions

Relax and put together a log of events.
Then make sure you take some representation in with you.

Good Luck

Good luck tomorrow.

Take your time (breathe), stay calm, say as little as possible in this meeting and keep your dignity whatever. Let them talk and just listen. Then take your time (could be days) to consider next steps once the whatever dust has settled.

Try to sleep well even if it is hard. Good luck again,

All the best fella. Every cloud and all that.

Good luck fella.

Legally they can dismiss within 12 months with little come back which makes me think it could potentially be a kick up the arse. Crap rolls down hill and your manager will be under pressure so he's looking for a solution as well.

Don't get defensive tomorrow and take their feedback constructively but reiterate the point any missed targets will be offset against decreased expenditure on team salaries.

Breakdown the performance per head of your team, pro rata that with a full team.

It may give you some extra time to turn things around with your present employer while looking for the next opportunity elsewhere.

If you do get terminated tomorrow ask if there is an appeal process and state to above again and add the dimension of lack of support and oppressive behaviour. At this point you have nowt to lose.

And keep things in perspective. You have your health and family. Get those right and everything else falls into place.

Not sure what to say, but I hope it turns out well for you.

Just to update people - it is no longer 12months before you can claim for unfair dismissal, you can't your employer to an employment tribunal until 2 years as of last April.

Firstly I hope it goes well for you tomorrow and you get the result you want. But regardless of how that turns out it sounds like you should make it your new project to find yourself a better job. You spend a hell of a lot of time at work and spending that time miserable and unsure of your future is no way to spend a life.

Good luck fella.

Gutted for you I hope it's not what you think if it is be positive and start looking for new horizons anyway. Don't forget to wee in your bosses shoes before you leave, could be tricky if he/she is still wearing them.

I was told about a 'poor performance meeting' at 5pm on Friday, scheduled for tomorrow. Haven't slept/eaten since.
I always thought I'd be aloof & OK about it if it ever happened to me, but I'm devastated.
The company's terrible and my direct manager is horrendous and I really don't like it there, but I'm devastated to think I'm about to be dismissed (probation not successful).

This wouldn't by any chance be a fairly large Finance company from north of the border? I only say this because it sounds exactly like what I went through with them. They gave me all the sympathy under the sun when going through particularly hard family times, but decided to sack me on the day before my 6 month probationary period was about to end.

Now the upside - Yes I thought It was the end of everything, I had to sell my car to get money to live on, i took the first job I could get and had to work in a hellish call center job for nearly a year part time and borrow a mortgage payment from my parents (ok, stick with me) I did after that get a job in IT (what I always wanted to do) proved myself to them that I was an asset and have built myself back up to a good wage, good hours and working for a company that doesn't treat me like a sponger just looking for a wage.

It will feel like the end of the world, i won't deny that, but the old cliche of "when one door closes another opens" couldn't be truer

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Dunno if I'm too late to offer any advice but FWIW..

Look at your employee handbook and / or T&C'S. These should tell you how this kind of thing should and / or will be dealt with. If its a larger business they may well have a conduct & capability policy you could refer to. This may not change the outcome but you can ensure they play by the rules.

I would suggest that if they haven't been explicit in your reviews that you were heading for this meeting they probably haven't followed most recognised performance management procedure. As other posters have mentioned you can't claim unfair dismissal within a year but you would massively increase your chances of getting benefits if you can demonstrate you have been unfairly treated. It's worth looking at ACAS for guidance here as most Employment Tribunals use them as a guide to what's reasonable.

Dependent on what sector you work in you may be able to get a union rep to attend. Even if there's not an affiliated union at your employer your T&C'S will state if you can have a union rep as a witness. If a union rep can't attend they can still provide good advice based on experience within the sector. For example in my business we recognise USDAW (retail) and CWU (post office).

I would be really surprised if there isn't at least a three stage process to be followed in your case. No doubt there will be some things they will expect you to achieve and if you feel the targets set have been unreachable get this noted. If the counter argument is that you should be able to hit them is anyone in same role managing to do so? Any good manager should see the benefit of agreeing a sustainable improvement target so they shouldn't expect you to go from 0-100 in a week.

Finally your employer should have some kind of problem solving or grievance procedure. If you feel the issue is with your boss (lack of support?) and / or due process isn't followed inform your HR dept and your bosses boss.

As above don't know if this will change the outcome but everyone deserves to be managed fairly.

Good luck with your meeting.

Can't give you any better advice than you have been given, but take care of yourself and remember it isn't your fault! More often organisations fail employees than employees fail organisations...

Good luck!

this is why I'm tempted not to have children.....I have terminal bad luck that has given me a degree of fatalism.....if I ever get accused of gross misconduct, let a deadly zombie virus out of a CAT 4 lab by accident or my field of work becomes redundant and I become long term unemployed then I will just go and join the Legion. At least before I'm 30.

Firstly, this is easy to say but don't take it too personally.
Secondly, use silence. It is a very powerful tactic that most people can't handle. If this is the first they have raised it then they are taking the formal route so you have to consider that you are in a performance management process, even if they haven't told you. Very amatuer. Take someone you trust with you. There role is to impartially document what is said, actions etc. they should not participate other than asking questions if you want them to - I would. Your role is to listen to the issue they have [s]made up to support their baseless process[/s] with your performance and seek to find an agreed set of metrics and a process to measure them. If they are asking the impossible then only you can agree to that, if not then you are in the wrong job anyway so you might as well let the process run.
There are always better opportunities.

No 3.
http://www.lzwlaw.co.uk/documents/employment_law_ppp.htm

Sorry to hear that Mog, another way of looking at this situation is that maybe the whole company isn't doing well and they need to let someone go - you just happen to be the newest employee? if that's the case then whatever reason they give you is difficult to contest. Chin up and I hope it is not as bad as you are expecting. I have similar experience (but from a redundancy angle) and something always comes up. Good luck!

Legally they can dismiss within 12 months with little come back which makes me think it could potentially be a kick up the arse. Crap rolls down hill and your manager will be under pressure so he's looking for a solution as well.

As above. Silence is a good tactic - but also don't commit to any agreement at the meeting if you can. You do have the right to think things through.

I have been in a similar situation in the past, and it's horrible at the time, but in my case it was definitely for the best, and I accepted a far better job with far better people before my notice period was up.

Don't be afraid, stay positive and get looking for another job. It sounds like you've had a slight blip, and frankly every one is allowed one. Your years with the previous employer count for a lot, so make sure you go back to the old (departed) management and hit them up for references if they can't rehire you.

Best of luck.

Good luck Mog!

Are you happy that you have done as well as you could under the circumstances? You don't want to work for a company that doesn't recognize that.... easy to say, I know.

Accept it and move on..... focus on what's next.

Good luck Mog. Hope you get on ok.

Thanks again everyone - you've given me a bit of needed perspective on it.
My line manager is best friends with the MD so there's little comeback against them. Like it or lump it, that's the way it is there - a little draconian.
Off to face the music now.
Looks like I'll keep quiet and digest what's said later on today.
Thanks again.

Good luck mate.

Head up and look to the future whatever the outcome this morning.

Can you honestly imagine a scenario where you stay and keep working there, in that job you hate?

Tonight you'll feel like a whole new man and I bet you come out of the office with a spring in your step. I did when I was made redundant and now I run a successful landscape maintenance firm!

Best of luck chap!

As a couple of above posters have said... Would you REALLY want to work there ?

I'd try and drag myself through today, get out the other side with a job and start looking ASAP... it's only matter of time before they axe you... get a new job and get in there first.

Good luck fella.

It sounds like you were placed in a impossible situation and an element of your face doesn't fit. It happens. I've been in places where I could do no wrong and vice versa. Both me and mrshora were in good (or what we thought) stable jobs when suddenly we were both asked to leave on the spot. It really affected mrshora's confidence but she stung them with a massive payout. I hated my job, every evening cringed thinking I'd have to get up and at weekends I never enjoyed ...well my weekend. My MD was a confirmed manhater. Apparently she only took me on as she thought I was gay at the interview 😆 I was the companies best performer yet nothing I did was ever good enough.

OP- the only words I can say is it will get better. 7yrs in your previous job?

You are obviously conscientious etc and cheesy as it sounds you [b][u]WILL[/u][/b] find a likeminded-business again. If you want to talk off forum I'm more than happy to but when you are in the mailstrom you really do wind yourself tight and your view on reality becomes deeper/darker and skewered.

If you don't get sack, it sounds like you should be leaving anyway.

Get CV done and onto internet boards ASAP.

I was the companies best performer yet nothing I did was ever good enough.

This hasn't got anything to do with inappropriate use of the glorious member, has it?

To recap my experience (on the employer end of disciplinary/non-performance stuff) I'd agree with the following from above

1, Don't go in for the first meeting, all guns blazing threatening all kinds of stuff. Go in with argument prepared (as it seems you already have) for what are likely to be their points.
2, If you dispute what they say or need time to respond to it, ensure you ask for a follow-up meeting so you have time to counteract their points before they get to the "bugger off" meeting (assuming you're right about where it's going)
3, Make sure to make notes, or ensure someone from HR is minuting the meeting and you have the right to see the minutes before they're "official" and correct mistakes.
4, Be careful about just resigning as it affects all sorts of things in terms of benefits etc.

Ultimately, as people have said, if they want you gone, they can just get you out. It's not much of a salve to the nerves but when I was made redundant, the fact that it was a foregone conclusion stopped me stressing about keeping the job, just made me focus on getting the best exit possible.

It may be that this is a genuine attempt to get you and them back on the right path. That said, from what you've posted in this thread, I'd start looking for a new job anyway even if you get through this.

Good luck!

best of luck for a good outcome today (whatever "good" might be for you)

This hasn't got anything to do with inappropriate use of the glorious member, has it?

Best wishes. Mog.

Which part of the country are you in? I can offer a slow wheezing crap mtb ride in the Chilterns to cheer you up if that is local / helpful?

Finger's crossed it's just a first review not an actual dismissal meeting, then as others have said get straight into CV writing and get out of there on your terms.

Do you get any sick pay while on probabtion? if you're sick fed up of them as an employer and if they've treated you like crud are you sure you're feeling okay? perhaps you're feeling a little stressed or depressed or some other non physical ailment that you might suffer from to get a salary whilst you look around for a new job. 😉
it isn't morally right of course but then a lot of things aren't.

Good luck Mog