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http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/a9-average-speed-camera-work-to-begin-1-3359088
They'll make a lot of my driving a bit different.
geoffj
They'll make a lot of my driving a bit [s]different[/s] slower.
They'll make a lot of my driving a bit different [s]slower[/s]safer.
They'll make a lot of my driving [s]a bit different.[/s] safe for construction workers allowing them to go home to their families.
😀
geoffj
They'll make a lot of my driving a bit [s]different[/s] [s]slower[/s] [s]safer[/s] more like molgrips.
I drive like a granny anyway - its more the associated roadworks (yes I know there's plenty more to come) and the affect the cameras will have on the other drivers which is a bit of an unknown.
Edit: 😀 @ DD
This is a great idea. Will we see this on motorways across the UK? Seems to work in France.
the affect the cameras will have on the other drivers which is a bit of an unknown
I think the effect is known. Which is why the cameras are being introduced.
and if they stop reckless overtaking then it might work...
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http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Man-seriously-injured-after-A9-crash-17102013.htm
The only speed that was the issue was the fact that the car was moving when it hit the truck on the other side of the road. The truck driver was off to pick up some sheep for my dad at the time, said the car just pulled out in front of him.
I think we need to start viewing driving as a means to get somewhere rather than a fun activity. I was asking this of myself the other day when going up the motorway, why do I accerlate up to like 90 at points when toddling along at 75 is perfectly fine and the former is likely to get me there only 5 minutes early on a 2hr journey at best, it really is pointless. BUT as soon as we get behind the car we just seem to want to go faster.
molgrips - Member
This is a great idea. Will we see this on motorways across the UK? Seems to work in France.
The A9 is not a motorway, not seen that much enforcement in France where speeding is fairly common on the motorway from my experiences.
and if they stop reckless overtaking then it might work...
That's the big question. I've obviously not studied the cause of accidents on the A9 but having driven it, ime most of the bad over taking is caused by lorries, caravans etc rather than excess speed.
ime most of the bad over taking is caused by lorries, caravans etc rather than excess speed.
I don't remember many lorries and caravans overtaking people.
I think the effect is known. Which is why the cameras are being introduced.
It's not quite as simple as that on the A9.
The problem with the A9 isn't so much speeding as it is the overall road structure (the frequeny switches from dual carriageway to single carriageway) on a road that gets a lot of tourist traffic as well as lots of people driving for work reasons etc.
In the summer a fair number of serious accidents are due to tourists getting confused and driving the wrong way or overtaking when they think they're on dual and are not. Other times it's drivers getting frustrated and overtaking inappropriately. I used to drive on the A9 a lot and I've seen some shocking driving on it.
ime most of the bad over taking is caused by lorries, caravans etc rather than excess speed.
I don't remember many lorries and caravans overtaking people.
'[b]Caused by[/b]' - As in massive queues of slow moving traffic due to lorry etc that then causes other drivers to chance over takes in less than suitable areas.
That, combined with the road structure as epicsteve points out, is what I would guess is causes the most accidents.
It's not quite as simple as that on the A9.
It won't reduce speed ? Well I suspect that Transport Scotland are convinced that it will, otherwise they wouldn't be introducing it as a permanent feature. Average speed cameras are all about reducing speed. And in my experience that is exactly what they do.
I don't remember many lorries and caravans overtaking people.
No but they have to adhere to different speed limits. You can hardly blame an artic driver for sticking to the 40mph limit (the law) for some fanjo overtaking him uphill onto a blind bend straight into a family of four.
'Caused by' - As in massive queues of slow moving traffic due to lorry etc that then causes other drivers to chance over takes in less than suitable areas.
Same as cyclists causing their own deaths by holding up cars. Impatience is the issue, bad roads, poor standards of driving. Part of being allowed on the road is understanding and making assessments on safety. Better driver education would help on a lot of issues.
Which is why they're not gaining universal support on the A9. It isn't a road which suffers much from high speed driving. Even those opposed to the cameras agree the problem is poor overtaking and with so many long slow speed convoys ave cameras are likely to make that problem worse. That's why the effect is unknown - will the overtakers sit in the queue or carry on overtaking? The pilot of alowing HGVs up to 50mph is the sweetener for the objectors.Average speed cameras are all about reducing speed. And in my experience that is exactly what they do.
pushing the blame off the chancers and onto the slow moving traffic doesn't really help.As in massive queues of slow moving traffic due to lorry etc that then causes other drivers to chance over takes in less than suitable areas.
It won't reduce speed ?
It may reduce average speeds on the 7 single carriageway sections where the cameras will be, but may increase speeding on dual carriageway bits between as folk try to make up time or speed up to squeeze past the last lorry before the dual section ends. Only time will tell.
with so many long slow speed convoys ave cameras are likely to make that problem worse.
Well if the solution is to encourage drivers to exceed the maximum allowed speed limit then yes, I can see that average speed cameras might might the problem worse. But the effect of average speed cameras is predictable - they reduce speed.
It won't reduce speed ? Well I suspect that Transport Scotland are convinced that it will, otherwise they wouldn't be introducing it as a permanent feature. Average speed cameras are all about reducing speed. And in my experience that is exactly what they do.
..but they don't prevent poor overtaking caused by frustration after being held up by some tourist gawping at the scenery (and not speeding) or by a lorry sticking to the hgv speed limit, which probably (based on what I've seen) causes more accidents than speeding on this road.
..but they don't prevent poor overtaking caused by [s]frustration after being held up by some tourist gawping at the scenery or by a lorry sticking to the hgv speed limit,[/s] [b]being a prick[/b] which probably (based on what I've seen) causes more accidents than speeding on this road.
for balance, it's up to the driver to overtake safely.
If only everyone would make progress. 🙂
But the effect of average speed cameras is predictable - they reduce speed.
No, they reduce [b]average[/b] speed. get held up behind a caravan for 15-20 minutes at 40 mph (like I did this weekend), speed up to 100-110 to get past on a short length of straight (like I saw at least a dozen people doing), then back down to 80 once past. How does an average speed camera catch either the short burst of speed or the potentially dangerous over take?
You jest, but there's an element of truth in that. There's a large number of people who just don't seem to be able to overtake at all. Were they able to take the opportunity, there'd be shorter queues and possibly less frustration.If only everyone would make progress
I took the caravan up the A9 yesterday. A steady 50 on the single carriageway sections and I slowed down and pulled further in in the places where folk could get around who wanted to make progress.
.but they don't prevent poor overtaking caused by [s]frustration after being held up by some tourist gawping at the scenery or by a lorry sticking to the hgv speed limit,[/s] being a prick which probably (based on what I've seen) causes more accidents than speeding on this road.
If you're driving sensibly and within the limit, it doesn't matter how much of a prick the person carrying out the dangerous overtake is, if they hit you the effect is the same. Dangerous driving can kill you, even if you're not the dangerous driver.
My point is the cause of the frustration is poor driver behaviour and a lack of understanding that you are not the most important person in the world not the person travelling at a speed that they may be legally obliged too.
How does an average speed camera catch either the short burst of speed or the potentially dangerous over take?
Well that's the whole point, they allow you to accelerate and overtake if necessary. They are not there to make a judgment call on whether it's safe to overtake or not though.
I've driven up and down the A9 for longer than I care to remember. I've done the trip when it was still single carriageway with about, oh, 3 overtake spots on the whole length..
The switch between single and dual is possibly a factor. The impatience with folk barging past, intent on getting past the next car, van or HGV that's "holding them up" is, from my observation, the single biggest factor.
Is it locals that "know the road better than the tourists"; is it folk that have a deadline to meet? is it folk that have realised it's a lot longer than they thought and they /have/ to be in Aviemore by 5pm? Don't know. But I've seen quite a few after-effects of poor driving to want to repeat the experience..
kcal - In the previous thread I linked to a site which had lots of info about the main risk factors in accidents. I think there's a mix of more traffic, cars which are more capable of speed comfortably than they were 20 years ago, less training in how to overtake properly and general impatience. All stuck behind trucks that used to do close to the same speed as cars but are now restricted.
Well that's the whole point, they allow you to accelerate and overtake if necessary. They are not there to make a judgment call on whether it's safe to overtake or not though.
So pretty useless on the A9 then?
There's a large number of people who just don't seem to be able to overtake at all
LHD car when I drive that road, and given the amount of tourists, I know I'm not alone there.
Only way I can see if it's safe to overtake a lorry/caravan on that road is pull out almost completely, or wait for next dual carriageway section.
If I do the latter, there's a guy virtually nudging my bumper at the point the road widens. I can floor it past at 90 (Leon Cupra), be hassled in to pulling back in, and passed.
Needs to be dual the whole way.
Trucks/Caravans don't cause the problems. Impatient car drivers so.
It isn't a road which suffers much from high speed driving
I dunno, the dual sections are ridiculous wacky races, everyone speeds up to 90-100 and then rejoins the single carrieageway in the same pissed-off group of cars, just in a slightly different order. Even on the single everyone speeds if they can, the fixed cameras have been in the same positions for years.
Needs to be dualled AND average speed cameras.
I'd love to have judge dredd powers and just 'remove' every idiot overtaker on that road.
the cause of the frustration is poor driver behaviour
No, it isn't, at least not always. Lorries driving at their legal speed limit or cars being restricted by the weight of the caravan they are towing is not poor driver behaviour, but is the cause of frustration, and sometimes, believe it or not, sometimes people do have legitimate reasons for wanting to make progress.
The assumption that everything that's wrong on the A9 can be summed up in one word (speed) or phrase (poor driver behaviour) with one answer is naive and wrong.
Also needs the white crosses by the road to mark each fatality like they do in Australia, pretty sobering when you drive along and there would be a lot on the A9...
So pretty useless on the A9 then?
Not if you wish to reduce the average speed drivers drive at, which is clearly the intention of Transport Scotland, they will achieve that.
Either I'm making the point badly or your missing it. Becoming frustrated by being held up is poor driver behaviour. The poster that says your not stuck in traffic you are traffic sums it up.
Roads in general would benefit from better drivers.
The white crosses are just for serious accidents the black ones are for deaths. It doesn't make any difference.
I dunno, the dual sections are ridiculous wacky races
So true! It would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that these are 1-2 tonnes of metal travelling at 90mph, guided by fools.
It's the guys who you can see in your mirror, still tanking it down the overtaking lane at full tilt, with only a couple of hundred yards of road left, desperately trying to get in front of as many cars as possible...then hammering the brakes when they nip back in, stuck in the same 20 car convoy as the rest of us 🙂
The other one I find amusing and terrifying in equal measures, are the guys (it's always guys) who sit 3ft behind an HGV, continually sticking their nose out for a look then having to swing back in and go on the brakes, repeating every 15 seconds until they finally stick their nose out and there are no cars coming....JUST SIT MORE THAN 3FT BACK SO YOU CAN SEE WHETHER THE BLOODY ROAD IS CLEAR OR NOT!!!!! 😈
doing 40 behind a truck doing 40 is making progress.
IME the trucks do a little more than 40 anyway. steady 45 on my GPS when "stuck" behind them.
doing 30 or 25 whilst on a sunday afternoon drive might be classified as not making progress.
As always, it's not (as a lot of people here seem to think) a binary issue. There's lots of causes, but I find it hard to believe anyone who wouldn't get a bit annoyed at taking 2 1/2 hours to get from Perth to Inverness rather than 1 3/4 hours which is the kind of difference 45ish to 60ish would make.
If we boil everything down to the fact that human is driving then most accidents will be the caused by poor driving in form. But is it easier to fix the attitude of millions of motorists or to fix the road layout, speed restrictions etc to remove the factors which causes the humans to make the mistakes they make.
It's a real shame that they are going to try and use speed cameras to stop dangerous overtaking and bad Road layout and do nothing about bad driving.