MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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2.9 mill scrap
😯
This is so weird- I remember the exact sane thing happening when I was a young kid- so 30 odd years ago. Aircraft carrier, called Ark Royal, decommissioned and sold for scrap, everyone very sad about it. I even had commemorative picture on my bedroom wall. History repeating, eh?
10 years before a replacement - not good 🙁
Pointless old crap.
Pointless old crap.
Care to elaborate?
Why is that sad. Isnt it a big machine designed to kill people ?
The idea of someone getting emotional over the scrapping of an aircraft carrier is really quite bizarre. Still, I don't generally understand the spaffing over war machinery that you get on here (and elsewhere). I suppose I assumed most people would have grown out of it by now.
The idea of someone getting emotional over the scrapping of an aircraft carrier is really quite bizarre. Still, I don't generally understand the spaffing over war machinery that you get on here (and elsewhere). I suppose I assumed most people would have grown out of it by now.
Indeed, it's almost as common as people going off on their high horses
do they come in any other colours.
Trimix - a presence and protection!
We dont have an empire anymore.
Trimix - correct but not sure how that relates to this topic?
Indeed, it's almost as common as people going off on their high horses
Sorry I don't share others' hard-on for military equipment. 😆
Not sure how that's getting on a high horse. Seems like you're getting offended on other peoples' behalf again.
I woke up on the Ark Royal once. That's not a euphamism. That was after a very, very heavy night out In Liverpool! 😀
Doesn't need to be a euphemism when you're admitting to having pulled a sailor.
Seems like you're getting offended on other peoples' behalf again.
Nope, just passing an observation. Seems to have ruffled your feathers though.
Not sure how that's getting on a high horse.
The idea of someone getting emotional over the scrapping of an aircraft carrier is really quite bizarre. Still, I don't generally understand the spaffing over war machinery that you get on here (and elsewhere). [b]I suppose I assumed most people would have grown out of it by now.[/b]
Pretty much all of what you wrote appeared to be intended to portray that you feel that you're better than those who do have an interest in engineering. The bit in bold particularly so.
HTH
'People who have an interest in engineering' 😆
Strangely many of those with an 'interest in engineering' seem particularly excited about anything involving war. And the bit about growing out of it - it's a pretty common thing for kids to be into fighter planes etc - seems odd to me for lots of adults to still have the same obsession. I don't think I'm better than them - I just find it weird.
Being a bit over-sensitive aren't we? How ironic.
We dont have an empire anymore.
Most people feel it's appropriate for an island nation to maintain at least a modest navy. And our aircraft carriers weren't even considered to BE aircraft carriers by the yanks, so it was modest.
We have sold our harriers to the US marines for spares rendering our present carriers useless, our new carriers won't be around for 10 yrs and we're buying the wrong (and very expensive) planes to put on them - if they ever work. So yes, it's all a bit of a downer.
I woke up on the Ark Royal once. That's not a euphamism. That was after a very, very heavy night out In Liverpool!
HELLO SAILOR!
I don't think I'm better than them - I just find it weird.
Sorry, the implication that you were a mature adult whereas others are just mere kids does sort of fit the dictionary definition of 'high horse'.
Being a bit over-sensitive aren't we?
Not at all, as I said, just an observation. A second observation being that having your superiority complex called seems to ruffle your feathers. If the cap fits, 'n'all.
It's a perfectly adult thing to note skill involved in the design and engineering of military hardware, whilst loathing its intended purpose. Adults can usually separate their emotions e.g. the Vulcan - amazing engineering, absolutely abhorrent reason for its inception.
In Portsmouth there is HMS Victory and HMS Warrior - I'm guessing that some of you feel it's a waste to keep them?
In Portsmouth there is HMS Victory and HMS Warrior - I'm guessing that some of you feel it's a waste to keep them?
Oh absolutely - they were just crude killing machines 🙄
The first Ark Royal, launched 1587, was the flagship of the English fleet during the campaign against the Spanish Armada
Sorry, the implication that you were a mature adult whereas others are just mere kids does sort of fit the dictionary definition of 'high horse'.
If you say so. I'd call it 'having a different opinion to you'. You seem very over sensitive about it though.
In Portsmouth there is HMS Victory and HMS Warrior - I'm guessing that some of you feel it's a waste to keep them?
Dunno, for some reason I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of our current military hardware.
Grum, you're not alone. I don't get it either but each to their own. It's good that people are passionate about something.
It does seem that people are generally interested in the machinery of war because it is bigger or quicker or in some other way perceived to be more awesome than the civilian equivalents. I think for most it's not a celebration of conflict.
Grum - no interest in our history either then?
Yeah I have a degree in history.
It does seem that people are generally interested in the machinery of war because it is bigger or quicker or in some other way perceived to be more awesome than the civilian equivalents. I think for most it's not a celebration of conflict.
That sort of makes sense. Though the fact that our biggest engineering projects are usually military is in itself a lot sadder than the retiring of an aircraft carrier IMO.
Grum - a degree in History and you don't know about HMS Victory? I'm very surprised!
Oh, [i]that[/i] HMS Victory. 😳
I'm always amazed at how good this sounds:
Oh and grum, hate to burst your bubble but you're not the first to realize that war = bad!! Peace brother 😉
[i]Whaaaaaaaaat!?[/i]
🙂
I'd call it 'having a different opinion to you'.
Nope, that would just have been "[i]war materiel doesn't interest me[/i]", as opposed to "[i]war materiel doesn't interest me, [u]and anyone who is interested in it needs to grow up[/u][/i]", which, paraphrasing, is how you came across. One is a difference of opinion, one is passing judgement [from a high horse].
Though the fact that our biggest engineering projects are usually military is in itself a lot sadder than the retiring of an aircraft carrier IMO.
Not always - Concorde being a notable exception. And all the more more awesome given that when the SR-71 Blackbird spy-plane (and the MiG25 designed to shoot it down) were retired, it was the fastest plane in the sky. And its passengers and crew could drink champagne in comfort, not have to wear flying suits and oxygen masks.
Have a look at shermer75's post for an example of how to disagree with me without getting on your own high horse. 😉
I spent 2 years in Ark Royal as one of the engineers and had some of my greatest memories in that ship.
The engineering that went into a self sustaining ship of that size was excellent. Where else do you get to operate a system that is designed to land a variety of fixed and rotary wing planes laden with fuel and weapons on top of a fairly small platform moving at upto 30mph packed full of thousands of tonnes of fuel and weapons, frontline repair facilities all powered by 4 Olympus Gas Turbine engines driving through a pair of huge gearboxes designed by David Brown (of Aston Martin DB fame). Not forgetting the control and stabilisation systems and basic hotel services (accom, freezers, galleys and accom, vent, fresh water...) that make it as comfortable a place to work and relax as you can expect.
Its a shame to see her go but at the end of the day the memories and friends remain and thats the important bit (ime).
Have a look at shermer75's post for an example of how to disagree with me without getting on your own high horse.
Ah, Edinburgh defence, Lancaster variant.
How do you work that out? 😕
He made the point without sounding pompous and over sensitive. Something you might take heed of.
He made a point without sounding pompous and over sensitive.
Something you appear to be struggling to achieve.
'I know you are you said you are but what does that make me' - is that really the level you are stooping to? 😆
Come on then, explain how it's an 'Edinburgh defence' to point out that shermer75 made a similar point to you in a much less pompous, over sensitive, high horsey way.
Get a room, you two! FFS!
Maybe we could get a room together on the Ark Royal like you and the mystery sailor binners? 😛
Exactly! 😉
We'd need to get there pretty quick though.
It does seem that people are generally interested in the machinery of war because it is bigger or quicker or in some other way perceived to be more awesome than the civilian equivalents. I think for most it's not a celebration of conflict.
Very true. The thing is, most military hardware has similar characteristics to predatory animals, being sleek and fast, and designed to kill things. It's no different really to being interested in raptors big cats and sharks, as I am, rather than cows, pigeons and guppies.
There's a purity to the engineering decisions that are made putting together a war machine that I can appreciate from a technical point of view without condoning the politics behind its procurement and / or deployment.
Things are designed how they are, driven entirely by their purpose, with no consideration towards making it look pretty, re-styling it in three years time to keep it looking 'fresh' against the competition or providing unnecessary gizmos and novelty. I see more beauty in the purity of form of a brutish military machine than some "sculpted" sports coupe that is, underneath, the same as the practical hatchback version but put in a prettier dress.
edlong - Member
There's a purity to the engineering decisions that are made putting together a war machine that I can appreciate from a technical point of view without condoning the politics behind its procurement and / or deployment.Things are designed how they are, driven entirely by their purpose, with no consideration towards making it look pretty, re-styling it in three years time to keep it looking 'fresh' against the competition or providing unnecessary gizmos and novelty. I see more beauty in the purity of form of a brutish military machine than some "sculpted" sports coupe that is, underneath, the same as the practical hatchback version but put in a prettier dress.
Very well put.
A-10 Thunderbolt would be top of my list.
Not always necessary to lose the form to the function completely, although sometimes the good function comes as a result of good form - elliptical wings of the Spitfire for example and also the Concorde....does seem to be mainly aircraft that follow that, though.
I like to categorise this as 'big sh1t' and therefore it's cool. Along with large dumper trucks, cranes, turbines and stuff.
Seems a waste to destroy something that required so many resources to build...
Things are designed how they are, driven entirely by their purpose, with no consideration towards making it look pretty, re-styling it in three years time to keep it looking 'fresh' against the competition or providing unnecessary gizmos and novelty.
That being the case would you feel similarly moved to post on an internet forum when an oil refinary is shut down? Granted for those who served on this ship I can see that there would be an emotional attachment but I'm certainly in the camp that doesn't understand this whole gloying in military design thing as futher evidenced by the recent "glorying" in the dambusters raid. It all just seems rather distateful. There are plenty of other great engineering feats to marvel at that aren't designed to kill.
That being the case would you feel similarly moved to post on an internet forum when an oil refinery is shut down?
Yeah, weirdly, I would. I quite like that whole "urban exploration" thing, old industrial stuff fascinates me, whether it's a factory that was closed last week awaiting the wrecking ball, or the few well hidden remains of a three hundred year old mill race that you stumble across in the woods when out for a ride. Old airfields rock, too.
Do people think it's weird that lots of tourists flock to, and pay good money for, old castles? Roman forts? Is Hadrian's Wall not magnificent and inspiring because it's military? Or magnificent and inspiring because it is military? Or regardless, it's just magnificent and inspiring? Do we need to worry about imperialism or can we just be impressed with it? I'd like to think so.
Mintman - Member
I spent 2 years in Ark Royal as one of the engineers and had some of my greatest memories in that ship.
Sad day for me too Mintman. I gained my Bridge Watchkeeping ticket on her, despite working for an absolute tyrant of a Navigator.
Amazing bits of kit. No ship I have worked on since can make quite the same noise as those 4 Olympus at full speed. Indeed, still the fastest ship I've ever had the con of. Grey Funnel or Merchant.
There's a purity to the engineering decisions that are made putting together a war machine that I can appreciate from a technical point of view without condoning the politics behind its procurement and / or deployment.Things are designed how they are, driven entirely by their purpose, with no consideration towards making it look pretty, re-styling it in three years time to keep it looking 'fresh' against the competition or providing unnecessary gizmos and novelty. I see more beauty in the purity of form of a brutish military machine than some "sculpted" sports coupe that is, underneath, the same as the practical hatchback version but put in a prettier dress.
^^^ +1.
I've been driving passed the Ark regularly over the last few months whilst working in Portsmouth Navy base and it has been looking increasingly sad as it was being stripped of anything worth keeping.
Regardless of its purpose, it was/is a fantastic bit of Engineering which dates back to the days when everything was drawn up by hand, and Engineering calcs were done by a man with a calculator, rather than a clever bit of software.
I also took my daughter to see Illustrious last week while she was alongside in Greenwich, she is due to be decommissioned next year which will be the end of this class of ships.
Anyone who is interested in the latest generation of Naval Hardware should try and get a visit to one of the new T45s - amazing piece of Engineering.
Regardless of its purpose, it was/is a fantastic bit of Engineering which dates back to the days when everything was drawn up by hand, and Engineering calcs were done by a man with a calculator, rather than a clever bit of software.
Software isn't clever, software is dumb. The clever bit is knowing what to ask the software to do and how to interpret the results.
Sadly this is a point that is lost on many people, including some engineers that I'm forced to work with!
And its passengers and crew could drink champagne in comfort, not have to wear flying suits and oxygen masks.
That's brilliant, I rarely drink bubbly for precisely that reason - all the dressing up just takes so long and those masks properly inhibit conversation. Where do I get one?
It does seem that people are generally interested in the machinery of war because it is bigger or quicker or in some other way perceived to be more awesome than the civilian equivalents. I think for most it's not a celebration of conflict.Very true. The thing is, most military hardware has similar characteristics to predatory animals, being sleek and fast, and designed to kill things. It's no different really to being interested in raptors big cats and sharks, as I am, rather than cows, pigeons and guppies.
I kind of see where you're coming from there. I think a bit of context/sensitivity might not go amiss from some people though.
Someone mentioned Dambusters above - I listened to a very gung ho glorifying retrospective of it on the radio the other day - I didn't hear the whole thing but in the bit I listened to there was no mention of the civilian casualties (inc approx 1000 mostly Soviet forced labourers and prisoners).