[Closed] A question for the lefties (that's politics)

Edit: using it somewhere else.

Green Party, which is why I joined them.

With the exception of the War in Iraq, and TB going a bit mad, I thought New Labour was pretty decent, they invested heavily in Schools, Health Service, etc.

Wouldn't want to go any further left than we currently are (with the current Tory government).

The main thing for me is support for the vulnerable. Out of work, disabled, unemployable, addicted, mentally ill and so on. They deserve help, and not handouts, of course, but that costs possibly even more money than handouts.

I also think free childcare for all would be a huge benefit. It seems like a lot of 'benefit scroungers' are there because they are either unemployable without some sort of help, they can't arrange childcare, or it's just not worth their while financially.

Then we should invest in things that people in a developed country should have a right to. Like healthcare and education, up to degree level.

Then I would also like to see certain key industries nationalised. Transport and infrastructure like power, telecommunications and so on are all essential, and shouldn't have people pocketing the profits, they should be reinvested. Of course, national industries were badly run in the past but privatisation is not the answer. At least, for essential utilities. I perhaps think things like nationalised car manufacturers is taking things a bit far.

Purges, lots of purges.

Basically social justice, investment in education, triple bottom line accounting, transport network overhaul in favour of public transport, renationalisation of utilities and transport, Gulags.

molgrips - Member

The main thing for me is support for the vulnerable. Out of work, disabled, unemployable, addicted, mentally ill and so on. They deserve help, and not handouts, of course, but that costs possibly even more money than handouts.

I also think free childcare for all would be a huge benefit. It seems like a lot of 'benefit scroungers' are there because they are either unemployable without some sort of help, they can't arrange childcare, or it's just not worth their while financially.

Then we should invest in things that people in a developed country should have a right to. Like healthcare and education, up to degree level.

Then I would also like to see certain key industries nationalised. Transport and infrastructure like power, telecommunications and so on are all essential, and shouldn't have people pocketing the profits, they should be reinvested. Of course, national industries were badly run in the past but privatisation is not the answer. At least, for essential utilities. I perhaps think things like nationalised car manufacturers is taking things a bit far.

What Molgrips said +1

immigrants on benefits. everywhere. all with their feet up because they've had free operations on the NHS.

it'll be beautiful.

Start Remploy again, closing it down was scandalous

Purges, lots of purges.

How about:

[i]To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.[/i]

But to work, that would require a human animal whose sole motivation [b]wasn't[/b] narrow self interest.

Yep molgrips +1 even in the US they tend to have state control over the key infrastructure of transport and power

Grips has it nailed really.

Yep molgrips +1 even in the US they tend to have state control over the key infrastructure of transport and power

What do you mean by 'state control'? Many states have a state corporation commission that regulates the activities of the privately owned power companies, but they don't control them.

Typed stuff, read molgrips answer, deleted stuff.

Basically "wot he said"

Before there can be any great movement left, the vested interest and almost blanket right wing bias of the media needs to be dealt with. The first thing I would nationalise would be the print media.
But then I am quite a fan of Stalin.

If the Green Party had some better policies to deal with the non-environmental issues, they could be the 3rd way. Right isn't great, Left isn't either. Instead of putting money first or 'the worker' first, we might want to try putting the world we live in closer to the top of the list. Neither Conservative nor Labour give due deference to the context we as humans should have to the world we rely upon. If that's knackered, we're knackered.

I agree with molgrips.

transport doesn't necessarily need to be a monotlithic state owned monstrosity.
have transport (a) integrated*, and (b) regional networks "owned" by stakeholders**. think more TFL than BR (I get the impression Manchester was going that way too?)

(* bus, train, tram, in a network area all on the same ticket not a bus ticket to station, train ticket to wherever, then another ticket for the destination area)

(** metropolitan authorities, county councils, local authorities,...)

Free access to healthcare and education. Nationalised utilities (gas, electric, water, rail and roads) should be operated for social good, not for profit.

Progressive taxation, so the rich pay more. The super rich should not be able to avoid/evade this.

A more equal society - I like the idea of tying the highest pay in an organisation to a multiple of the lowest pay (and closing any means to dodge this).

Representative democracy - we don't just vote Blue or Red anymore, so a structure that recognises this is needed. I'd like STV for MPs (keeping the constituency link) with the Upper House voted for through regional PR lists (like Europe is now).

Removal of inherited privileges, so no monarchy. Head of State to be appointed from among the upper house and to be honorific non-political title/position.

Regional devolution of power, so democracy happens at a more local level.

The Basic Income idea has a lot going for it too. Removes the need for lots of bureaucracy and can be grabbed back by the better off through the tax system.

Pretty much what Molgrips said.

I think the basic premise of those that can work, should. But it needs to be meaningful and respectful. The so called "benefits culture" is in part down to exploitive employers who use in-work benefits to prop up low pay and maximize profits.

Protecting the disabled and vulnerable needs to be given as high a priority as possible, regardless of cost.

I'll just leave this here:

[i]We are not here in this world to find elegant solutions, pregnant with initiative, or to serve the ways and modes of profitable progress. No, we are here to provide for all those who are weaker and hungrier, more battered and crippled than ourselves. That is our only certain good and great purpose on earth, and if you ask me about those insoluble economic problems that may arise if the top is deprived of their initiative, I would answer 'To hell with them.' The top is greedy and mean and will always find a way to take care of themselves. They always do.

Michael Foot[/i]

what GrahamS said...

oh, and in case you were wondering, yes i'm happy to pay more in taxes to pay for it all.

we're happy to pay more for stuff all the time: whether it's phones, cars, holidays, food, bikes, cameras, etc. We're happy paying more than we need, because we want something better than the cheapest option.

i'm just adding 'schools, healthcare, transport, overseas aid, parks, environmental protection, policing, etc.' to the list of things that i'm happy to pay more for.

molgrips - Member
The main thing for me is support for the vulnerable. Out of work, disabled, unemployable, addicted, mentally ill and so on. They deserve help, and not handouts, of course, but that costs possibly even more money than handouts.

I also think free childcare for all would be a huge benefit. It seems like a lot of 'benefit scroungers' are there because they are either unemployable without some sort of help, they can't arrange childcare, or it's just not worth their while financially.

Then we should invest in things that people in a developed country should have a right to. Like healthcare and education, up to degree level.

Then I would also like to see certain key industries nationalised. Transport and infrastructure like power, telecommunications and so on are all essential, and shouldn't have people pocketing the profits, they should be reinvested. Of course, national industries were badly run in the past but privatisation is not the answer. At least, for essential utilities. I perhaps think things like nationalised car manufacturers is taking things a bit far.

This.

Plus, a massive social housing building program.

Ditching the ludicrous war on drugs. If people want to temporarily alter/expand their consciousness in ways other than getting smashed on booze, it's none of the state's business.

unless too many people are too stoned to be able provide an income to the state, in which case it is the state's business

Pretty much what molgrips said.

There doesn't seem to be a party that represents this view, which is why I found it difficult to decide who to vote for last week. I'd add that being left doesn't necessarily have to sit with the Green's idea of no nuclear- I'm pro-nuclear but also very left. Again, I'm not pro-drugs and don't agree with their policy on drugs. Then again, I don't think I agree with anyone's policy on drugs- there needs to be someone more moderate in between the Greens and the main right wing parties.

I'm also pretty keen on the idea of rights of workers and the general public over those of business, though. Which isn't an idea that I think many will go for.

I also think free childcare for all would be a huge benefit. It seems like a lot of 'benefit scroungers' are there because they are either unemployable without some sort of help, they can't arrange childcare, or it's just not worth their while financially.

* it's not free, obviously

So, molgrips for PM then?

But to work, that would require a human animal whose sole motivation wasn't narrow self interest.

Yes.. but people ARE motivated altruistically depending on the context. If we could find a way of showing people that those on benefits aren't workshy scum and actually need our help, then we would do a lot better.

Perhaps an increase in visibility of politics locally would be good. So you can see how your tax money is spent in your town, where it might be more real. Or some kind of town hall meeting system with voluntary representatives from all areas of society.. some way of increasing dialogue and exposure.

The BBC currently has a stab at this, incidentally. Not directly because it's state owned, but because it has a charter that defines its responsibilities, unlike the rest of the media who are just chasing your subscription fee or ad revenue.

Instead of giving free* childcare to every parent, wouldn't it make more sense to give free childcare to poor parents that wouldn't afford it otherwise?

Perhaps. I'd be prepared to debate that.

I'm also pretty keen on the idea of rights of workers and the general public over those of business, though. Which isn't an idea that I think many will go for.

Yes but you have to tread carefully there. In the globalised world, a company doesn't have to be based here in order to sell its goods here. So if you make it harder for them to make a fat profit they would need other reasons to stay here - if there aren't any they'll leave.

- Proportional Representation
- No unelected 'representatives' i.e. abolish House of Lords
- Cap campaign spending and donations
- Progressive drugs policy
- Progressive taxation, including Council Tax reform
- Pavement parking punishable by car crushing

+1 for what Molgrips said. I also agree with the Michael Foot thing. Old school Leftie, me. Except I'm not in favour of doing away with Trident, not yet. Plus, I'm not too keen on unlimited child benefit or indeed, free childcare.

- Pavement parking punishable by car crushing

YES!

Wot Molgrips said

The first thing I would nationalise would be the print media.But then I am quite a fan of Stalin.

No need, editors and select journalists to have a quiet weekend in Cuba personally sampling the facilities. Followed by a one to one meeting specifying that the next stay will be longer and more uncomfortable.

For the greater good. (George Orwell was right).

I was just about to add "I think I'd like to vote for Molgrips", but I appear to have been beaten to it!

I cannot really add much to what Molgrips said. It's not just left-wing politics that's fallen by the wayside (post 1979), the entire political process is not fit for purpose. In order for our MPs to govern, they need to be compelled to live like the electorate, dependent on the same public services as the electorate and in the same town as their constituents. They need binding contracts which empower individuals to challenge MPs to answer questions concisely and truthfully, to ensure that there are no external conflicts of interest. Civic duty must come before party politics.

Oh, and deporting one Rupert Murdoch and dismantling his empire would be a fantastic start.

So, molgrips for PM then?

Ah....but what do you look like?? 😮

Troy McClure?

So, molgrips for PM then?

Ah....but what do you look like?

And can you eat a bacon sandwich?

I'll do a selfie tomorrow morning.

I reckon most people would agree with this kind of policy. The only problem is detaching that from entrenched party political mud slinging and making people realise that almost all of us will be happier and better off.

And on a practical level free childcare would be an enormous vote winner for whoever decides to come out with it. So many people would benefit.

Another policy: Tax breaks or other incentives for companies whose employees work from home. Or perhaps penalties if your staff COULD wfh but don't, since tax breaks would be unfair to companies who need staff in factories etc. It would save a shitload of money in road building and rail infrastructure, help carbon emissions, boost rural economies and increase net happiness.

On the subject of which, I'd introduce a net happiness indicator like the cost of living one - so we can monitor people's quality of life and not just the money they make. I'd publish this and be judged by it.

Again +1 to Molgrips - free childcare. The planet is overpopulated as it is, if you want a load of kids you should have the means to pay for them. I'm pretty left wing on most issues apart from the right to have x number of children and the support that comes along with this.

I'd also like to see the suggestions being paid for by reform in taxes for multinationals, the super rich and the city.

Another thing I'd like to see is harsher penalties (Jail time) for manipulating the financial markets. At the moment there is not much incentive for the traders and financial institutions to stop cheating the system and using the financial markets like a casino.

A hefty fine and a slap on the wrist with "you promise not to do that again you naughty boys" is not enough.

I voted green, but I wouldn't want them to get in unless they changed some of their wackier policies.

On the subject of which, I'd introduce a net happiness indicator like the cost of living one - so we can monitor people's quality of life and not just the money they make. I'd publish this and be judged by it.

I thought this was already being done?

Tax breaks or other incentives for companies whose employees work from home.

Just 'cos your a loner doesn't mean we all are. Anyway most decent companies allow homeworking if it is necessary.

Oh yeah - also the govt IT agency thing. I'd start by creating a consultancy company just like any other. We may not need to rig the bidding process - I'd just pay well and encourage good working conditions like salary and benefits. I think after a while it'd start gaining and keeping so much government contract experience that it'd end up winning all the contracts anyway.

Once al the diverse agencies start a good working relationship with one provider they can start collaborating on wider simpler solutions that only the government agency could deliver - because the Minister for IT would be on the board*

* ok so this may need looking at a bit more 🙂

Just 'cos your a loner doesn't mean we all are.

Ok then, we'll set up local offices in villages and towns where you can go and hang out with other people who are also wfh.

Regards yout point Molgrips about most people agreeing with these kind of policies, that's one suggestion why the preelection polls were so wrong. People in their hearts want the ideology of Labour and Green (and preelection say theyll vote Labour etc) but are too scared to when it comes to it - also weirdly a lot of people are too embarrassed to admit voting Tory. Surely if you're embarrassed you know it's not the right thing?

Ok then, we'll set up local offices in villages and towns where you can go and hang out with other people who are also wfh.

You want to speak to @pennypower, who has been working towards this type of networking opportunity