[Closed] A new Tesla for £25k? Sounds good.

I do wonder whether 'hot swappable' batteries is the answer to the recharging problem. ie you dont recharge your battery, you just remove the empty battery and fit a fully charged one. Your old battery is then recharged at the charging stations leisure ready for the next electric car to come along. Should result in similar 'charging' time to filling with petrol.

Obviously not a goer now because of the size of the batteries, but in 10 years? maybe a possibility.

for me any way

^ the key point.

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work [i]for you[/i].

I do < 5,000 miles a year, can count on one hand the times I've driven > 200 miles in a day in the last 2 years, and I always stop every 1-1.5 hours for a break (10-20 mins) regardless. An awful lot more people are like me than like you (maybe not the <5,000 miles annually, but even for higher annual mileage most daily trips are short)

[i]You[/i] are a fringe case, [i]most[/i] people do't need a bigger range, and most people don't need to recharge/refuel so quickly (or frequently), and [i]everyone [/i]needs a world where cars aren't belching crap out into the air they breathe while burning up a finite fuel reserve.

we get it, right now your requirements aren't met, but for the other 80-90% they can be, so get out of the way and let it happen already 😀

more importantly, be happy for the rest of us, celebrate and emphasise the positives and get behind the idea in general instead of sulking that it's not quite right for you yet.

Swappable batteries, expandable batteries, modular range extenders that you can fit for your summer holidays but take out for the rest of the year and have more boot space, or order a car without then later decide to add it.

Or more sensibly, probably- your standard runaround model and if you want to go further you rent or get one from the community car pool.

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work for you.

You'll note I only just joined this discussion this afternoon, and I havent said anywhere that it wont work , in fact I said I think it will work, but thats its immature tech right now (give it 10 years), and I havent 'bleated' on about anything. I even proposed a 'concept' that might be used to speed up the recharging time.

I Just put foward a few reasons why 'I' wouldnt buy one at present, I thought a discussion forum was for discussions, you know, where people discuss things .

By all means you go ahead a get your deposit down for one, I'm not getting in your way. You have put your deposit down havent you? if not why not?

anyway - I can see my views are not required, so thats me out.

@julians

agreed, probably not fair to single you out, you were just the last poster commenting in that vein to quote from, the 'bleating' bit stems from the fact that your comments are so similar to many others from a small but vocal minority who don't actually represent what 'normal' usage is.

By all means you go ahead a get your deposit down for one, I'm not getting in your way. You have put your deposit down havent you? if not why not?

I would, but I'm poor, which is also why I haven't ever bought a new car. Plenty of other boring normal cars are > £20-30k and also well outside my budget.

anyway - I can see my views are not required.

not at all, it is a discussion after all, it's just that the discussion often seems to get stuck on the negative aspects for a small number of users, and again, not picking on you specifically, but in general the most vocal against EVs (and other things) are often the people at the fringes, and thus a disproportionate amount of negative comments appear in threads like this and give a false impression to a lot of people researching the topic.

so thats me out.

that's really not what I (or others I assume) want, I'll repeat my earlier invite, to help us celebrate what is happening, push the positives and open peoples eyes to how a lot of the misconceptions are actually just that and not relevant to most people.

So many complaints of 'its no good for me because I do 5000 mile nonstop journeys and I don't even stop for half an hour to sleep so I couldn't charge it'. Well, you know what I'm sure a Bugatti Veyron wouldn't be any good for you either as you would have to stop every 50 miles to fill the tank but no-one is forcing you to buy one of those either.

Electric vehicles are still in their infancy, Tesla are doing great, innovative things pushing forward development of the technology. Just the other year they released all their patents to anyone that wanted to download them.

Maybe in 10 years with enough development there will be a car that suits your needs to drive X hundred miles in one fell swoop but for now the Model 3 will suit a huge number of people who do only commute >200 miles a day and do have a drive way and ability to charge it at home. I'm sure in the UK alone that would cover millions of cars currently in use. As the technology and demand increase, production and development will increase allowing prices to inevitably drop hopefully making them more ubiquitous.

I for one welcome [s]our electronic overlords[/s] Tesla's announcement and would seriously consider one in a few years time when I need to replace one of our cars that is used for local commuting and domestic duties.

Give it another few years we'll be wondering what all the fuss is about.

The fuss will be having sufficient grid capacity. Road transport fuel accounts for about 39 million tonnes of oil equivalent. The entire UK annual generation of electricity is equivalent to about 29 million TOE.

(2014 stats from DUKES)

There are times when I want to drive a long way and get there pretty quickly without stopping and if I had an electric car it wouldn't be able to do it. In which case, I'll probably hire a IC engine one.

I like the idea of these cars, but am confused why the sudden surge in interest in this particular car. What is it that makes it so much more appealing than current offerings? Is it the range?

Many comments on here about the average car owner doing few enough miles to only have to charge it once a week etc. so why aren't those people rushing out to buy cars like the Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, BMW i3? Yes, the range is less in those as I understand it, but if they genuinely are doing so few miles, then that shouldn't be a problem as they can charge them every day or two at home....

And if they need to go on a longer journey, as has been suggested; they can just hire a car for that.
Is the charging time of the Tesla that much quicker than the opposition, or is the range that bit further that people feel it is a genuine equivalent...?
I'm just confused as to why the people who are happy to sign up and put money down for this car that doesn't exist yet, aren't in car dealers buying current offerings.....

Have you seen an i3 it gops. Its also only a 4 seater and has a tiny boot and will cost you as the base model with no extras £30k for 81-100 'real world' miles of range.

[img] [/img]

you don't see people complaining that you can't get bikes in the back of a Polo

Probably because you can perfectly well with the seats down, or put them on the roof (recently saw a whole family of 4 with their bikes on top of a Polo).

I've seen the odd Renault Zoe and they seem perfect for what most people claim Tesla's are for, yet a Zoe can be bought now, for much cheaper than a Tesla and come from a reputable car manufacturer with dealer base. Surely if EV was so great we'd see bigger take up?

The point above by ransos is really valid a move to EV in any significant numbers will require a big investment in generating capacity. Hinkley Point C anyone 😉

But stop bleating on like it wont work just becasue it wont work for you.

Everyone I know with a leaf / zoe or i3 (and there's a few of them) are really happy with them. The 2 guys I know with tesla model s's are really really happy with them.

Easy tiger - that's a lot of italics and pointed comments to someone that was making a very reasonable point, calmly

😳

[b]Sorry[/b], got a [i]bit[/i] carried [u]away[/u] didn't I...

come from a reputable car manufacturer with dealer base.

Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs.

Why would dealers get less they primarily exist to sell cars, EVs still need to be sold, warrantied, MOTed and require some servicing.

and require some servicing.

A lot less than petrol cars though. With regen / motor braking they wear through brakes less. Brushless motors pretty much last for ever, no fluids to change.

The industry is already concerned that their parts and service business will collapse, which is a big chunk of their profits and most of the dealer's profit.

Interesting that some people are utterly determined to rubbish the manufacturer and the whole concept. All I can say is give it a go. EV driving is addictive. I'm ashamed to say I've only biked to work once in the first month of ownership.

The point above by ransos is really valid a move to EV in any significant numbers will require a big investment in generating capacity.

dragon - Member
Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs

and tyre costs can be high.

Car's a bit heavy so that'll increase wear a bit. Though power delivery could reduce it. TBH the biggest influence is probably the outdated software that controls the human.

Yeah seems like that,

TBH the biggest influence is probably the outdated software that controls the human.

I was talking to l Tesla Model 3 and Renault Zoe owners a few months ago and it I remember correctly they both said it was free to charge up their cars. We were at a Source East charging point at their work car park. They both said it cost £10 fit the Source East card and then they just used the charging terminals and didn't pay anything else. Can this be correct? If so, who is paying for their electricity, govt subsidy?

Teslsta are paying for some, others are subsidiesed or PAYG
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/public-charging-point-networks/
But yes it's like giving away free crack, it's just to get you hooked 😉
It's promoting the tech to get people over the line to go for it - as many of the doubters say there are not enough chargers etc. no business is going to invest in a network without customers and no customer will go for it without the infrastructure so you use funding to get a start and get the user base up and go from there.

Part of this does rely on the UK getting round to building some proper electrical generation at some point soon 😉 though daytime charging etc. could be a great way to use solar resources etc. that are not available at night. In the end there will be costs associated with charging properly but it's not as if oil is free now is it.

It'll be a very long time before all the surplus night time energy is used up charging cars - and while the naysayers harp on about lack of chargers, most charging happens at home at night (yes, by people with off road parking).

and tyre costs can be high.

A lot of it has got to do with the fact that all the torque is available from standstill. People with the same model as me are complaining of only getting 5000 miles out of their first set of fronts. I'm being fairly careful, but grateful that my lease includes tyre replacement.

I'm an avid petrol head/mechanical engineer/part time restorer.
For me the IC engine is dead - when you strip and rebuild an engine the tolerances and combination of parts required to make an engine work is mind boggling, its just that we've become accustomed to it so its the norm. If things were the other way round and EV's came first would the IC engine stand a chance if it was developed now? I dont think so.

I would buy a Tesla/Leaf/Note car at the drop of a hat, its just that Im skint and am going for a million miles out of my Volvo!

Robert Llewellyn has a god Youtube channel on Tesla's/EV's thats good watching;
https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow/videos

it'll be a very long time before all the surplus night time energy is used up charging cars

You got any evidence for that? To me looking at the National Grid production against demand, it looks like the CCGT's are acting to ensure reasonable demand matching and that there isn't excess capacity at night.

Hardly a reputable manufacturer when they just missed manufacturing their correct amount of SUVs due to supply issues and the Tesla forum has people saying that they couldn't supply parts for repairs.

A friend of mine has a Nissan note and loves it, her husband has a bigger diesel car for long trips or holidays so the range has never been an issue.

She has found an extra benefit - good parking. In a lot of shopping centers, she can park right in front of the entrance and charge it for free while she shops.

I saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

it does mean that their suppliers need to up their game though if they want to stay in the picture.

No Tesla need to up their game in supply chain management and dealer networks, otherwise they'll get crushed by the big players as the Japs did to the US car industry previously.

Well, once the national grid is producing enough for all the cars in the UK to be electric, there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps, there's a council-supplied charging point outside every terraced house, there's a dealer on every street, Tesla have implemented kaizen throughout their organisation so spares can be delivered by drone within a hour of ordering, then, maybe just then, I'll buy one.

there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps,

deadlydarcy - Member

there are multiple options to allow a non-stop drive to the Alps

Couple of bridges?

There should be charging points on ferries too. And in every carriage on the eurotunnel trains. Just in case I arrive at the terminal without a half hour to spare.

EDIT: If planes can be refuelled in mid air, then maybe electric trucks with batteries the size of a shipping container that could charge "on the go". Might be a bit slower but at least I wouldn't have to stop. Once Tesla have sorted out their spares issues, the trucks could carry some of those too.

And in every carriage on the eurotunnel trains. Just in case I arrive at the terminal without a half hour to spare.

I saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

See it's not getting too hard is it

saw some charging stations at the Eurotunnel terminal a few months back so there must be some people doing some longer journeys and making it work?

Haven't got bloody time to wait at the terminal.

Technology will improve and the range will go up. We drove past an all electric AutoLib yesterday - blimey its a horrible looking car. At least Telsa have go the visuals right.

[img] [/img]

Haven't got bloody time to wait at the terminal.

No Tesla need to up their game in supply chain management and dealer networks, otherwise they'll get crushed by the big players as the Japs did to the US car industry previously.

What about sticking solar panels on the roof of em'?

Could help charging, could it not?

the roof of a car covers approx 3 square metres.

under ideal conditions, you'd get about 600 Watts out of that.

which sounds like loads, except the roof of a car is not angled appropriately, and 600W isn't much really, roughly 1 horsepower.

how far away are we from some kind of solar PV wrap that could cover the entire painted surface of the car?

that might get it up to, oh, 2KW or so

EDIT: If planes can be refuelled in mid air, then maybe electric trucks with batteries the size of a shipping container that could charge "on the go"

love it 😆

Or induction charging via the road surface 😉

Darcy gets the Fallout award for backwards innovation though (yes I realise you're taking the piss).

I always thought that the battery packs should be exchangeable 'at the roadside'

Like the old coaching routes used to exchange the horses at each stop rather than waiting for the ones they had to rest and be fed.

If the big batteries in teslas can already be charged to 80% in less than 30 minutes, it's likely that it'll be down to 10 minutes within the next 10 years, with higher voltage charging. It'd take longer than that to swap the battery over - and it would mean packaging it in a manageable pack, rather than spreading it across the whole floor pan to keep the weight low in the chassis.