This talk of having something else lined up after the allotted screen time ? Why the need to entertain them all the time keep them occupied? How about they use their imagination? Our 8 year grandson is going through this at the moment , everything is boring ! Apart from watching other people playing Fortnite etc ? 🙄 Grandaughter will happily disappear into a world of imagination with dolls etc but he has no imagination whatsoever despite having plenty of toys etc .
I thought we were creating an outlet when I took him on a bike ride on a local nature reserve last Summer , only a few miles cake stop halfway , nice sunny day , on the way back he said this is boring it’s just dead straight! 🙄
Get him off it.
First - tell him it's a 12 anyway.
Second - despite what he says - not everyone else is playing it. Believe it or not, there are other parents out there who don't let their kids play it.
Third - eventually he'll find something more enjoyable to do that might include you too.
We didn't let any of our own or various foster kids play Fortnite until about 16. By which point they weren't that bothered.
I got persuaded to get into RC cars by one of our kids & now they all have them. We build them, break them and then fix them.
"This is much better than any video game!" Said my 10yr old.
This talk of having something else lined up after the allotted screen time ? Why the need to entertain them all the time keep them occupied?
I'm not suggesting it should be the adults responsibility to engineer ever minute of every day for a child, but screen time is an exception. The addictive nature makes most adults struggle, so to think a child will have a healthy relationship with it and be able to walk away at will is unrealistic. 'Scaffolding' their early interactions and preventing confrontation that is not just anecdotally going to happen but is scientifically likely to happen is surely a good thing.
BTW - Video games are not a bad thing. They're fun.
I started playing video games back in the early 1980s and have played them (on and off)ever since.
If you play them yourself you understand what the kids are experiencing when they play and how time can fly when you're totally absorbed.
We played a lot of multiplayer or co-op games with our foster kids. Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, 'Splosion Man, Overcooked, Bomberman and lots of racing & sports games. It was a great way to build relationships and have fun together.
Try learning a game & playing it with your kid. They'll love it.
Anyone interested in the physc behind why us males can be like this with gaming etc could benefit from reading this (I know I did!): Judson Brewer's - The Craving Mind. I came across him after the book he wrote with Oprah (which isnt as good). This is genuinely interesting and has some answers - but its not aimed at youngsters as such: just us as a species that has evolved and about how companies / tech prey on this etc in a deliberate way that can hook into these instincts which for me as a teen were addictive.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Craving-Mind-Cigarettes-Smartphones-Hooked/dp/0300223242
Proper middle aged STW thread this. It was music, then films, then music again and now video games. Ten year old boy who loves Minecraft and Roblox. Just gets a ‘ten more minutes’ and that’s it. No tantrums or anything. He doesn’t play Fortnite because I control what he plays. Then again, I play video games too. Might have something to do with it.
My younger brother was a dick in his early teens and wouldn’t listen to his mum. I threatened to format the HD on his PS3. Much better threat than turning off the internet.
Does he have a bike?
Do you live somewhere with easy access to trails worth riding, or a downhill spot?
a 26" wheeled DH/Enduro bike should be easy to build up quite cheap these days, and might keep him entertained and exercised (and outside)
Couldn't agree more with what @poly said above.
It's all incredibly hard work, and it sounds like you do need to present a united front, but also have to stick to a long road of changing behaviours. I did a course on the Incredible Years positive parenting approach, and I found it offered a lot of very useful tools for parenting. There's no one way of doing things, and i'm not saying it is some panacea for parenting - parenting styles aren't dieting plans! I've just found many aspects of it worked for me, and it is an evidence-based approach. There might well be some things that would help your situation, and it's something you and your partner need to do together too.
boys with shooting games are easy compared to girls and social media!Interesting to hear so many with the same experience. Particularly with boys and shooting games.
like many things in life strict prohibitions and curfews aren’t always the best way to develop healthy relationships.I think I will be imposing wifi curfews when they get older.
We played a lot of multiplayer or co-op games with our foster kids.
Yeah we got a wii (ages my kids!) and turned screen time into family time. The kids still got to play games, and also got to laugh at (and teach) parents.
Definitely worth noting that not all games are the same in terms of bad behaviour, frustration etc. I should know - I've been playing Elden Ring for the last 4 months and at times I'd come off that absolutely grumpy and antisocial.
If it's Fortnite, it's a game with bright colours and rapid reflexes (so any kid's going to be hyped up after playing and take a while to come down); it also involves shooting people (so they're riled up); and often as not it involves losing (so they're really peed off). Never a good combination for good behaviour.
Whereas there are masses of games - even co-op ones - that are more mellow, contemplative etc, and like to have less of a negative effect on behaviour
Consistency is bloomin hard when parents have quite different personalities, but you are right it's the only way.
WRG to Fortnite, i agree, and ROBLOX and that stupid gorilla game on the MetaQuest - infact ANY AND ALL online computer games where you interact-more so with boys is a problem, as Mike Tyson put it - people have forgetten what it's like to get punched in the face!! We've had the same issues (12yo) and have now taken it all away. He's ability to interact in a socially acceptable way is appaling when he's behind a screen, but in front or actuall living people he's an angle (excpet mum and dad).
Recently had to take the phone away too - the school agree with me on this that no-one under the age of 16 should be able to use social channels and whatsapp type things as so much of the comms is appalling between them all and is the single biggest headache for teachers to deal with. So my 12yo is now on a tech sebatical until we see major consistent improvements.
Edited to add. Son does next to no phys, except swimming once a week -simply wont do it despite getting him to try loads of stuff out. And also apparantly the big wide world is too dangerous for 12yo to go out and play in nowadays.. <grumpy face>
TBH my girlfriend gets the tantrum when she tries to pry my fingers from my keyboard and I'm 34 years old.
Are you & her separated? You haven’t said as much but it sounds like it due to the lack of consistency and differing viewpoints. If so, you need to sit down with her & work out a consistent approach.
No but I agree consistency is 1 issue, the parent who over-reacts rapidly has recognised that their behaviour is unhelpful, and has committed to improving this. Although this is not the 1st time that said commitment has been made and broken.
It’s not the behaviour\reactions that are the issue – we need to invest in the connections within the family and in whatever activities he enjoys that can foster those connections.
I completely get this, but being honest, shouty short-tempered parent has an anxiety issue. This means that when both parents are in the house, they will only prepare meals and then sit in front of the TV (they have no active hobbies of any kind) with both children and don't help with any housework or chores. Obviously this puts pressure on the other parent, who then has no time to be active with the children, or to play MarioKart, or guitar, or read.
He needs a timetable for what he’s doing on a daily\weekly basis and clear time limits for device use and probably a countdown for when he has to come off. (He shouldn’t really be on Fortnite at 10 but you could try playing Mariokart with him for example).
This is in place, but when shouty, short-tempered parent is experiencing an anxiety storm, it is sometimes not enforced, as on this occassion.
A planner is doubly important if you’re living in separate houses.
OTs would suggest that the brain is working so fast when you’re playing games that, when you come off, afterwards everything seems slow & boring by comparison. He needs to do something physical after gaming – trampolining, pillow fight, football etc. That will help regulate his emotions and reset the brain before moving on to another activity.
Does he read or draw or listen to audio books?
He does both.
You could try a marble jar. Each time he does something right (like coming off a game on time or tidying his room etc) you put a marble in the jar. Once it’s full he earns whatever treat or day out you’ve agreed on in advance. Don’t ever take marbles out for bad behaviour. Just don’t add one.
This is also already in place.
@Cougar
Parents have got to be a united front.
Totally agree
Whenever he does something bad enough to warrant punishment, its the games console or tablet that gets removed and his behaviour is immaculate for the duration. As soon as it comes back, his behaviour descends again.
Make of it what you will!
What I make of that is “removal of things they like.” Could equally have been a football. If you’re going to arbitrarily go “right, fun time is over, time to stare at a wall for an hour” then of course they’re going to kick off. You’re removing the console, what are you replacing it with?
I also totally get this and alternatives are always suggested, again for the reason above, shouty short-tempered parent is not engaging with any alternatives and the other parent is very often doing housework. I'm pleased to say that the consistent msg in lots of these responses has started shouty short-tempered parent thinking, I think they may be realising that "Off the switch/tablet/phone." with nothing other than TV as an alternative is a huge part of the problem.
Kids are only kids for a finite amount of time. Let them be kids.
I Am Not A Parent.
he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite
Did you have a stopwatch?
The Switch app allows me to see the playtime
(against my wishes)
Why?
Because as mentioned above on the subject of rewards, he collects 10p for every chore, he can exchange this for 5 minutes of screen time, on the day in question he had 35 minutes to use, but was given 160 "because his mates were online."
This sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Screens aren’t the cause of bad behaviour, removal of screens for little reason beyond “because I said so” is the cause of bad behaviour. Again: what are you replacing it with? Are you dragging him off the Switch to take him to the park? Have you got a Lego set to build together? Or are you just being nowty because Screens?
As mentioned above, 2 things can't be done at once, and if the housework isn't done, shouty short-tempered parent gets shouty at the other parent too.
@poly
Screens are often the cause of the poor reactions, for instance he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes), and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically. The same happens when his tablet or phone (again supplied against my wishes) is taken away from him.
As others said you do need a united front parenting – that doesn’t mean you actually both need to deal with everything exactly the same way, and doesn’t mean your partner necessarily needs to level up to your standard. The bits in brackets in the quote above and the coded way you wrote the OP tell a lot. That doesn’t mean your partner is in the wrong – but you clearly think they are – and that’s the first thing to sort out. Now why does your partner believe giving the Switch/Tablet/Phone to the child is a solution? I suspect its because it shuts them up, keeps them busy, gets them out of the way. Now why is that? Is it that your partner is being left to run the household, or try and earn a living at the same time as being responsible for the child? Are you pulling your weight with everything else or thinking that being strict parent is a job in itself? In this house, we probably operate to different standards – I’m the tolerant one, but also an escalation point; when the kids get told off by me they really know they’ve gone too far BUT if they talk back argue, are rude etc to either of us thats never tolerated or ignored.
One parent is on a couch watching TV suffering with anxiety. It's worth pointing out that this is almost every saturday afternoon after they have been to an art class, and consumes most of their sunday's too. It is also the way that most evenings are spent.
Excessive gaming has long been an issue for parents. Gaming with friends online makes that worse – if you restrict the times you restrict time with friends. Covid made that worse because we forced kids to only interact on line then expect them to understand its now different.
Someone said boys are worse – perhaps more likely to use certain types of game but IME girls are just as likely to spend too long using Social Media, and being nasty amongst themselves. In fact it may be the kids are on Switch because mum and dad are on Insta and STW!
The sports/activities thing is not just good advice because of the exercise and disciplines aspect but because they will spend time with others face to face. It could be a chess club, a drama group, scouts etc. As well as all those benefits its usually an hour or two where they function without a phone!
Oh and a final thought – does the kid’s personality traits seem like either of yours? the things I’ll tolerate most are my own weaknesses and those are also the things that infuriate my other half the most about the kids.
He is very much like the non shouty short-tempered parent was at that age, but is without question a better kid. My 10yo therefore gets significant empathy from the non shouty short-tempered parent.
A note: I know that describing 1 parent as "Shouty short-tempered" is very disrespectful, however they were very unkind last night, and this parent is jolly annoyed with shouty short-tempered parent.
I am reading through and trying to get to the bottom of just what is going on, but I *think* the OP is saying that their partner is suffering with anxiety and it is that person who is also the shouty parent who is also not sticking to agreed plans? If this is the case I can kind of see what is going on - they have anxiety, they don't know how to cope, that aren't fully in control with their own emotions so they end up shouting and/or giving in to the child's demands just to get an easier life.
If this is the case, then I suggest rowing back and looking to get help for the person suffering with anxiety – get to the bottom of that and you might find that the parenting bit might become a bit more easy to cope with.
Because as mentioned above on the subject of rewards, he collects 10p for every chore, he can exchange this for 5 minutes of screen time, on the day in question he had 35 minutes to use, but was given 160 “because his mates were online.”
This puts me in mind of the Third Rock From The Sun episode where John Lithgow's character discovers tipping.
In any case: you're (both) not following your own rules, so how can you expect your kid to?
2 things can’t be done at once, and if the housework isn’t done, shouty short-tempered parent gets shouty at the other parent too.
Again, this is a "you" problem. You need to have a conversation with other parent when small ears aren't in range.
I don't mean to be personal, but a lot of what you're describing here sounds like what I experienced when my partner turned peri-menopausal. She went almost overnight from someone calm and kind to someone with absolutely no patience who would Hulk Out if the wind changed direction.
That doesn’t mean your partner is in the wrong – but you clearly think they are – and that’s the first thing to sort out.
All of this. As you said, "this parent is jolly annoyed with shouty short-tempered parent" - what's that demonstrating to the kid? It sounds an awful lot like the parents need to sort their own shit out before worrying about their children's conduct.
Covid made that worse because we forced kids to only interact on line then expect them to understand its now different.
It's different for you. [devil's advocate:] Why is it different for them? Why should it be? I'm ten years old, I'm spending time socialising with my mates as I have for the last year or two, now I'm suddenly being told that I can't do that anymore because "it's different." That doesn't make any sense to my adult brain, let alone my 10-year old one. [/devil's advocate]