I have a very limited facebook account these days for local groups only, including one for the "village" I live in. This village is becoming a rat run for neighbouring areas to cut through to the bypass and with a longish, straight road the temptation for speeding is high, and rife.
The local facebook group has taken to warning people when Police are in situ with their speed guns. I, along with others, have pointed out that this is counterproductive. Just because "we" live here, shouldn't afford us the privilege of being able to speed, or not get caught, on our own doorstep - far from it IMO.
Of course, others take a different view to the extent that the moderator has run a poll asking whether it should be allowed within the forum and guess what? It's running at nearly 50/50.
All is to say, I thought it was illegal to forewarn others of a mobile speeding camera. I sometimes get flashed by other cars coming the other way, to find a police van round the corner and had heard that you'd get pulled up for that if caught.
The parallels of wider society with this confined example are just pressing my buttons 😐
Do the police still have to state where they will be monitoring?
Definitely illegal. The advance notification on social media prevents the police from effectively undertaking their duties. This is an offence.
Is there a question in there or are you venting the the other half of the village don’t agree with your viewpoint
I think the key thing is to slow drivers down, so those providing a warning will achive that.
The rest is a storm in a tea cup.
I agree with you. If one of yours is hit by a speeding motorist, how can you complain if you have aided them in speeding by warning them of speed traps. If they get caught, next time they might stick to speed limit and it could save a life. Maybe one of yours.
I thought it was illegal to forewarn others of a mobile speeding camera.
North Yorkshire police post the locations of theirs.
They're safety cameras not speeding cameras, the idea being to slow people down (hopefully permanently, by virtue of reminding people to pay attention to their speed and the limit, reinforced by the risk of being caught) not to catch people and issue tickets.
If Facebook posts actually slow people down its working.
FWIW I wouldn't and don't warn people but tomato tomatoe (edit, mainly as I'd like them caught and fined, which requires they are speeding rather than slowing down. That likely says a lot more about me than anything else)
Flashing a warning about a speed camera isn't a specific offence but you could be charged for breaching the highway code that covers use of headlights or section 87 about obstructing a police officer in their duty. Both are very difficult to prove so more likely just used to pull you over and give you a bollocking/warning than you end up being prosecuted for it.
Many many years ago I recall a story of someone flashing an unmarked car going the other way just after a speed trap and getting pulled for it and prosecuted for interfering with a police operation or some such. Only a hazy recollection of it and it may be urban myth but I'm with you it's moronic behaviour.
I don't do speeding but regardless of that if you're not sharp eyed enough to spot the van yourself then you're not competent to go that fast. They're usually blasted great things with dayglo checkerboard and speed camera signs all over them.
PS our local Facebook group is full of similar idiocy.
It's fine for the police to forewarn of their locations. It's not fine for the public do to so. It's nothing to do with whether the traffic slows or not. It's whether the action of forewarning is affecting the police officers' ability to undertake their duties.
Someone who isn't speeding isn't effected by it.
Someone who IS speeding should slow down.
IF they dont know/see a speed camera, they wont slow down, thereby continuing on causing a danger to all, and subsequently getting a fine.
IF they do know the camera is there, and slow down, they immediately adjust their behaviour and the danger to others is reduced. seems to me it achieves a better outcome.
The police in North Yorkshire publish their mobile camera locations in advance.
It’s all very well saying a warning slows people down, but it only slows people down on that particular day. The whole point of a mobile camera is that if people are aware they might potentially be there on any random day, they will be less likely to speed generally.
I think the key thing is to slow drivers down, so those providing a warning will achive that.
Yeah, fantastic - they'll slow down on the - what - one day every few months (unless the local force in question are significantly more bothered about speeding than mine) they see a warning on Facebook. Every other day, great, crack on!
EDIT: Imnotverygood beat me to it.
Fully agree with you on this one.
A few years ago, one of the local villages that has a long straight road through it at 30mph with derestricted at each end ran a campaign to get a more regular police or safety camera presence, they had stickers saying ‘30 in Worcestershire villages’ etc. One local lady who was apparently a supporter of the campaign was caught, three times, by the said increased presence and complained to the local force and got it into the local paper.
‘I never exceeded 35 mph, do I look like a boy racer?’was the quote
West Mercia police provided evidence that she had been further over the limit than she suggested. Much egg on face. But it appeared her attitude was exactly what you are suggesting, it was OK for locals.
Not illegal.
The purpose of the Safety Cameras is to reduce the speed of traffic, not to impose penalties or create an income.. By forewarning folk of their location, more folk slow down than would be penalised.
FWIW I'm currently a Moderator on a FB Group covering the A9 in the Highlands. We have 35,000 members, many of whom are police officers. The question has been raised there several times.
I'm constantly checking my FB as I enter rural villages to keep one step ahead of the police.
. It’s whether the action of forewarning is affecting the police officers’ ability to undertake their duties
The specific purpose of that duty is to slow traffic and improve safety so it doesn't interfere with it to encourage people to slow down by warning them. Quite the opposite.
As for "only on the day", seriously? I take it you've never seen traffic? Speed cameras (fixed or mobile) slow traffic for 30 yards, that's it, and even then only when they're there. The reason there's a move to average cameras is people just surf between them.
Definitely illegal. The advance notification on social media prevents the police from effectively undertaking their duties. This is an offence.
Apps such as Waze encourage users to share real time data about speed traps, if it's clearly illegal I wonder why they are being allowed to do this?
I don’t do speeding but regardless of that if you’re not sharp eyed enough to spot the van yourself then you’re not competent to go that fast. They’re usually blasted great things with dayglo checkerboard and speed camera signs all over them.
Or, like the location nearest to me, sat in a dip in the road watching the brow of the hill. By the time you've seen them, it's too late.
Let the authorities get some revenue.
I'd say its illegal based on Section 89.2 of the Police act 1996.
Summed up nicely here by Yak
It’s fine for the police to forewarn of their locations. It’s not fine for the public do to so. It’s nothing to do with whether the traffic slows or not. It’s whether the action of forewarning is affecting the police officers’ ability to undertake their duties.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/16/section/89
ianopo
Google maps (if you use it for your sat nav) gives you the location of mobile speed cameras now.
Derbyshire police publish the locations of there cameras. Not sure anyone bother to check though.
It’s running at nearly 50/50
You should sue them to stop counting, or carry on counting, or declare a vicotry, or not, or something.
Years ago my Dad got pulled over and a telling off for flashing a warning about a speed gun. His mates at the golf club had a great time telling everyone that he got done for flashing.
Ok, I’ll bite.
Or, like the location nearest to me, sat in a dip in the road watching the brow of the hill. By the time you’ve seen them, it’s too late
They’re in a dip. Past a blind brow. You
Can’t see them. There’s isn’t time to slow from a speed over the posted limit down to a legal speed.
I accept all of that is possible.
Why on earth do you think it’s safe to be driving like that approaching a blind spot on the road
There could be anything going on out of your view, or even something stopped in the road just over the brow. If you can’t trim a few miles off you speed in time how on Earth are you expecting to stop safely if you have to?
You might notice my well disguised opInion peeking through there: there is no excuse for speeding.
It’s just selfishness, or incompetence. Pick one.
How is forewarning people on social media affecting the officers ability to undertake their duties?
The officers duty is surely to sit at a roadside in a safe place checking the speed of traffic. I don’t see how people being alerted to their presence affects the officers ability to undertake their duties?
Are they actually police officers doing that job? I know a lot of areas use Safety Officers or some other similar job description. The aim of the cameras is to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on the roads. So how is advising other road users that a mobile speed camera is in a certain location an obstruction?
The important thing is that people either slow down or get caught and punished. The rights and wrongs of warning people is a distraction from the core issue.
This kind of FB nonsense is a great way of filtering out the local idiots to avoid in real life.
I've put the kettle on and opened some digestives.
Can't beat people arguing about speed limit enforcement.
Deep down, everyone knows speeding is stupid and selfish.
Just goes to show that a large number of people are stupid and selfish.
Forewarning may prevent a serial offender from getting caught and prosecuted. That is affecting the police officers' ability to carry out their duties.
The app Waze allows you to notify where cameras are, so any others using the app will get a warning too. You could argue that Waze is a social platform too.
Deep down, everyone knows speeding is stupid and selfish.
Just goes to show that a large number of people are stupid and selfish.
I’m not sure about the first bit - it seems to me that many think speeding is just fine, it’s not hurting anyone, after all they’re Good Drivers. Not like Other People at all. Those pesky cameras are out to get them, probably to make money.
As for the second part, yes, lots of them.
Yeah, it seems that Waze, or at the very least the forewarning users are in the wrong. Unenforceable though unless the police obtain information from Waze about who posted what and when.
Users are self-identifying on Facebook Groups.
Yeah - should be no problem pursuing them if the police choose to.
Put up a warning on FB yourself randomly but only when there isn't a radar, and ask others who don't want speeding cars through the vialage to do the same.
Which is basically what happens.
At 9:00, someone posts that there is a van at Kessock. At 12:00, someone posts that there is a van at Alness. At 15:00, someone posts that there is a van near Golspie. It's the same bloody van. No one ever posts to say "that's it gone away now".
Plus; you can't always be sure that every van has been reported.
Plus; the vans always use the same locations, so the locals know them all.
Plus; there are also Traffic cars patrolling.
The idea that notification of Camera Vans is a blank-cheque for speeding is completely wide of the mark.
@sockpuppet put your teeth away sweetie.
Why on earth do you think it’s safe to be driving like that approaching a blind spot on the road
Where did I say it was OK to speed?
All I did was point out that not all mobile cameras are easy to spot.
I’d say its illegal based on Section 89.2 of the Police act 1996.
IIRC the appeal court (in a case of Glendinning ?) said something to the effect of to prove that (with Flashing of lights) the prosecutor would need to show that the drivers being warned were speeding (in which case its not clear how the warning has caused an obstruction). That's ignoring the fact that many mobile speed camera vans will not be operated by constables.
Warning someone before they even get in the car is almost certainly not illegal. I'd have more of an issue if they were posting once they'd gone.
I'd prefer it was illegal and that the locations were not publicised so people were always thinking they might get caught if they drive like idiots - but that would need a change in political will. Until then its best that our laws are clear about what is, or is not, actually illegal.
Yeah, fantastic – they’ll slow down on the – what – one day every few months (unless the local force in question are significantly more bothered about speeding than mine) they see a warning on Facebook. Every other day, great, crack on!
Well if someone is driving stupidly fast on any other day you could "warn" them with your lights anyway? Or indeed there is presumably nothing to stop someone posting of FBook on any other day to say "saw police van parked at side of road - looks like they are setting up a speed trap, so slow down!"
@yak - I'm afraid you're wrong, and this has been tested in court.
Forewarning may prevent a serial offender from getting caught and prosecuted. That is affecting the police officers’ ability to carry out their duties.
Someone was prosecuted for exactly this and found not guilty. The legal decision was (in summary) that just because someone is forewarned and slows down, there can be no assumption that if they hadn't been forewarned they would have committed an offence, nor that the act of being forewarned was the sole reason that no offence was committed.
Forewarning may prevent a serial offender from getting caught and prosecuted. That is affecting the police officers’ ability to carry out their duties.
This is a neat summary of my thoughts.
Also, folk are very quick to complain about "outsiders" speeding through the village, but then the same folk are warning each other not to get caught. Very Trumpian.
Easy to sort. Just constantly report that there are cams everywhere. Motorists will slow down, and those that really don't want to will continue to speed, ignore the now irritating warnings and get caught when there really are cops.
I have found that standing on a roadside with a luminous jacket on leads to much braking and slowing.
Start walking the dog in a suitable luminous jacket:
@phil56 - I didn't know that. Dammit. Thanks.
I am in a speedwatch group. Our actions only result in letters being sent, drivers getting a police visit or getting registrations flagged up. We could provide an evidence base of car 'A' consistently speeding, but we couldn't prosecute. We could request a police speed check if our actions were not having an effect with the intention of catching car 'A'. In the event of forewarning then taking place, it would be interesting to know if our evidence base would allow for a successful prosecution of the forewarning.
