This happened to me:
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18680858.farm-rage-incident-involving-loose-sheep-cyclist/
After I went public I had some tip offs, including name and address. After much arguing I got the investigating officer to go and see him. He was interviewed under caution, with his solictor.
He denied smashing the camera, saying I had dropped it myself. He also said he hadn't been shouting at me, he had been shouting t his dog! Therefore they weren't going to push for a public order offence because, in their view, I started it!
I know the camera has his fingerprints all over it but the officer has continually refused to take it for print testing, saying it's "not a proportionate response".
The man's statement is at odds with the video evidence in several respects, yet they prefer to believe his story.
In fact, the officer admonished me for going public because he's been getting "comments" as a result...even though she told me she was closing the invstigation because she had no named suspect! She's been utterly obnoxious with me, more or less implying I have made up my story.
The upset the police handling has caused has been far worse than the offence itself. I have filed a formal complaint (will take months) and made a request for a "Victim's Right to Review".
Do I push on?
Yes, absolutely. Don't hope to get anywhere but push on regardless otherwise on top of it all this far, you can add feeling like a carpet to the list.
Yes
The comments under that article:
From zero to 'piss-soaked covid-coffin-dodging old hag' in moments. 🙂
Yes
Yes
So someone says "****ing bike" and you respond "shut yer ****ing gob" one way to escalate matters I guess 🤔 or is the artical in the press not representative?
Yes; don't give up.
Hi Dickyboy, not quite. The guy on the hillside shouts “****ing bike!” Which the camera mic doesn’t pick up. You can just hear me asking “are you swearing at me?” But not raising my voice at him. Then the guy with the quad shouts “will you get a ****ing move on?!”. Again he’s too far away for the mic to pick it up. Sure, I swear back at him because as far as I can see I had done nothing wrong. When the PC first came to look at the video I asked her about this - would it just be a matter of tit for tat and therefore no case for him to answer but she said absolutely not - she said his reaction was completely unjustified.
This week she tells me he was shouting at his dog so she won’t be charging him with a public order offence.
In fact, there’s no dog in sight (I have rear-view footage as well). Also, in the video he admits he was shouting at me. He says “I’m asking you to get a move on and you’re standing there looking at what he’s doing “. He certainly didn’t say, “I wasn’t talking to you, I was talking to the dog”.
Fact is, he was in a filthy temper and because he hates cyclists (“you freaks”) he decided to take it out on me.
I’m sure that in both cases the farmers were in the wrong.
It appears that in both cases the people on bikes also made the situation much worse with a bit of verbal.
This in no way justifies a threat, but “go away or I’ll hit you in the teeth” is such a generic response it’s not worth all this.
Further escalating the situation with more verbal makes you look even worse.
Smashing the camera/poor response to being told you’re being filmed is one of the reasons I have decided against riding with one routinely TBH - such a low likelihood of getting any different outcome, such an increased chance of worsening the situation.
Sadly the police also seem to act poorly in both cases.
Unfortunately all parties seem to be wanting here.
My only advice: try following the general guideline - don’t be a dick.
'5 stone pensioner' in the comments seems a little harsh.
OldBiddy from Barney seems nice........and I'm guessing has nothing better to do (and yes, I see the irony)
Seeing as the camera was on why would it not show he picked it up and smashed it? And why would you stop to get into an utterly irrelevant argument?
What are you expecting/hoping to happen from pursuing it further? It's costing you time and stress, just let it go.
don’t be a dick
You might want to think about that one before typing.
Sure, I swear back at him
To tell someone to "shut your ****ing gob" is a very personal attack though when compared to the swearing you were subjected to, just don't understand why you felt the need to escalated to that, personally I'd take it as a lesson learnt and move on.
What's he expecting?
Perhaps the farmer might learn to wind his neck in a bit.
Perhaps the police might choose not to be so dismissive of things.
Perhaps the OP might get his camera replaced.
If people get away with being out if order, or not doing their jobs, what motivation is there for any of that to change if their behaviour isn't challenged,
Seeing as the camera was on why would it not show he picked it up and smashed it?
The SD card popped out when he smashed the camera. I have two corrupted files which if they could be recovered would convict him. However, I haven't found a way to do this and the police of course won't.
And why would you stop to get into an utterly irrelevant argument?
Who knows how we react how we do when we come under attack? I had two farmers swearing at me, evidently thinking I was responsible for their shambolic shepherding when I had acted absolutely to the rules by pulling over to let them through. I was really aggrieved.
Sockpuppet's comments:
It appears that in both cases the people on bikes also made the situation much worse with a bit of verbal.
...
Further escalating the situation with more verbal makes you look even worse.
...
Unfortunately all parties seem to be wanting here.
My only advice: try following the general guideline – don’t be a dick.
Beggars belief. Utter garbage.
In reply to the OP. Yes please continue to pursue this. It sounds like the police are being utterly useless and I think it is great that you have raised a complaint. Please pursue it as far as you can, and thanks for trying to right some wrongs.
My only advice: try following the general guideline – don’t be a dick.
Only one dick on this thread that I can see and its you
All views welcomed, for or against.
I know I am easily aroused to anger, I hate idiots, feel I am surrounded by them. One reason I cycle is to get some mental peace. I have been on medication for almost 10 years, I have been diagnosed with Huntington's disease which causes mood swings, violent outbursts and worse.
My reason in pursuing this is the absolutely dreadful police handling of the case. Yes, it galls me that this farmer and his solicitor have told a blatant lie and got away with it but I am more disgusted that the police have refused even to compare his video evidence to his statement. It seems that at every stage where they have met resistance their reflex has been to say "case closed".
My reasons not to pursue it are - the same! The sleepless nights every time the police tell me they've "done all they can" when they plainly haven't are insufferable.
So you've no video evidence of anything other than a bit of tit for tat swearing. So really it's your word against his, I can't see that there is much point in trying to do much more than interview under caution. If he'd said fair cop guv I dunnit then he'd still only be looking at a bit of a telling off. Ultimately they're unlikely to go all CSI full resources to send him down for a bit of mutually escalated handbags.
Yes the farmers were acting out of order but ultimately he's a bit pissed off because all his sheep are now running down the road. No he shouldn't have sworn at you but equally you should not have responded in the manner you did. Lesson learned, just ride on next time.
Lesson learned, just ride on next time.
Theres a good little doormat!
Theres a good little doormat!
For someone saying ****ing Bike, yes absolutely. Does it hurt your ego so badly that someone might have sworn at you when you did nothing wrong that you have to stop and get into an argument? Jesus, if you stopped everytime someone swore at you on the bike you'd never finish a ride some days.
And if you stop and face off then you are have to accept it might get heated.
So really it’s your word against his,
Yes, apart from his fingerprints all over the video camera; but how can the police tell me on the one hand that I have no evidence, whilst in the next breath saying they won't test the camera for prints because "we only do this for high-value items"?
The value of the item is not germane - it's the value of the evidence.
If you feel up to it push on indeed.
The farmer looks rather larger than you do, I would have hoped all the Gandhi's on this thread would have been able to spot the bully in the situation.
But obviously next time just stay in with the curtains drawn in case you upset anyone 😉
If you can stomach the personal coat of pressing on, then I encourage you to do so. It really is the only way to get the authorities to change their attitude toward this.
Private prosecution or similar as possiblity? I'd chip in a few quid towards that. Or a sheep's flock worth of frozen sausages.,
However, I haven’t found a way to do this
There's a lot of talent on STW - stick them in a Google Drive folder and let people take a look. Have you tried VLC Player, it's pretty good at playing back stuff that other players sick up.
Private prosecution or similar as possiblity? I’d chip in a few quid towards that. Or a sheep’s flock worth of frozen sausages.
Or in this case, frozen lamb shanks. On the plus side due to being on the bone these will be easier to hammer into an unseasonably dry lawn/field, on the minus side it will be considerably more expensive than sausages.
But obviously next time just stay in with the curtains drawn in case you upset anyone
Indeed, if people swear at me for no reason I will respond in some way or they just keep bullying. I hate bullies.
Does it hurt your ego so badly that someone might have sworn at you when you did nothing wrong that you have to stop and get into an argument?
As I recall from watching the video a few weeks back the rider was already stopped. Doesnt hurt my ego at all, I just dont like bullies and will stand my ground.
“It’s you pks’ [cyclists] fault that them fers [the sheep] aren’t in there.”
I think you should pursue this much further, if only so someone can tell the thicko that it should be "those ****ers".
He'd probably been at some of the animal meds.
Firstly,I second making a thread asking if a member on here can get the broken video files to work.
Seriously, this forum has the broadest and deepest collection of expertise ive found on a forum, biking or otherwise.👍
Secondly, I can't see you did anything wrong op, pretty stunned to see anyone could say any different.
That said, and this is important, only go ahead if you can take the continued grief. Sometimes in life I've dropped things even when I've felt deeply aggrieved, and in the right. Sometimes you just have to do that in life or you drive yourself bloody mad.
Good luck with whichever direction you take this mate.👍
The fact he's involved his solicitor screams "guilty".
I'd probably feel similar to you OP but it's probably better to let it go or go the frozen sausage route.
Durham police actually took out an injunction against my neighbour when he wouldn't let something they'd messed up go. They don't seem to have a 'sorry we screwed up' option in the standard set of responses. Unfortunately he couldn't let it go as it had consumed his life arguing the case and he ended up breaching the injunction (probably more than once) and going to prison for a little stay.
I live in Iveston so you never know it could be the very same police officers....
Benpinnick that’s very interesting. I can’t help thinking I am already a marked man and even if I get the investigation reopened no officer will take my side against a colleague. As far as the police are concerned, I will have nothing more to say to them that does not directly relate either to that investigation or my formal complaint.
Don't get me wrong my neighbour went way too far in the end but the basic premise was sound - as far as I could see (he often showed me the correspondence) an officer had intervened in a matter between him and a local business as a favour for the business owner and as he tried to escalate it they closed ranks and began to push back harder each time. He however didn't follow the proper complaints procedure and instead made a nuisance of himself which is what landed him in hock. So I think you're right to just go through the proper compliant procedure FWIW.
I can’t help thinking I am already a marked man and even if I get the investigation reopened no officer will take my side against a colleague.
Get Steve Arnott on it, AC12 will smash this right open, I'll bet it leads right to the top.
You have a name. Sue him in small claims for the cost of the camera
I know I am easily aroused to anger, I hate idiots, feel I am surrounded by them.
This is what you need to deal with as part of this. You are surrounded by idiots and always will be so being able to handle them more effectively (i.e. in this case just riding straight on) will remove the impact.
I'd let it go. It's not about being a doormat, it's living your life on your terms and not letting outside factors grind you down. Totally agree with Keeley above, put your energy into dealing with your anger issues. There will still be idiots but your life will be better.
I don’t think your next steps are clear cut here. If it was me I perhaps wouldn’t have been aroused to anger in the first place, but it depends on all sorts of things, what sort of day/ week I’d been having etc. As it is only you can decide if continuing to pursue it is worth it. For me it wouldn’t be, but it’s a very personal decision, and I don’t think you should take the views of internet strangers too seriously - they are not the ones who have to deal with the stress and anxiety caused. One things for sure, pursue it or not, I have no doubt it will have no impact whatsoever on the attitudes of the offenders in these incidents.
If you do decide to press on then you have to get the video footage from the corrupted files, without that there is nothing to go on. Fingerprints on the camera means nothing, they could be there because he picked it up and smashed it (and I don't dispute your account) but they could just as easily be there because you dropped it and he picked it up. They aren't the smoking gun you appear think they are and that's assuming that there are prints available in a decent condition.
The fact he’s involved his solicitor screams “guilty”.
Would you let your painter and decorator take out a tooth..?
OP, what do you want as an outcome? From my view, I see this as a bit of effing and jeffing (from both sides) and some damage to your camera. If you are going to complain, 1. state clearly what you want "an apology and compensation for the damage to my camera" for example. 2. Get some legal help. get a professional view and some assistance for your complaint, at least to take some of the mental strain, and get an unbiased view as to whether they think it's worth it.
don't live your life as a reaction to other people, I hope you can resolve this, but however you decide to go-on. good luck, don't let the bastards grind you down!
I’d let it go. It’s not about being a doormat, it’s living your life on your terms and not letting outside factors grind you down. Totally agree with Keeley above, put your energy into dealing with your anger issues. There will still be idiots but your life will be better.
I was going to suggest the same. As much as it would pain me to let it go, I think ultimately it would be less painful than pursuing what seems like a lost cause.
Put it behind you, forget about it and get on with your life.
And you never know, an opportunity to gain revenge might well present itself, unexpectedly, at some point in the future.
Taking it any further seems to out outweigh the cost to you.
You acted appropriately standing up for yourself and have done everything you can to get justice. Rationalise by not taking it personally, it could have been anyone on a bike, random people come everyone's way, who knows what the guy has been through to act like that. You made him accoutable for his actions and I expect the solicitor resulted in a bigger financial loss for him as a result.
More than most would have done. Good work and onward to your next battle.
Would you let your painter and decorator take out a tooth..?
He knows he's in the wrong, is my point.
He knows he’s in the wrong, is my point.
True but sadly no longer the point for him, and admission of guilt at this point might bring with it further charges now this has been legally escalated. So of course he's going to take advantage of the lack of evidence and the polices intransigent attitude.
As for the actual incident, I don't think there's anything to be gained by telling you to turn the other cheek. If someone comes up to you with unprompted abuse and threats there's no real way to know how you will respond until you're in the actual situation, so who are any of us to pass comment on your behaviour.
But in future I'd not tell them they're "being recorded" or "on camera" its a red rag to a bull phrase (ref: half of YouTube) and you've no duty to inform them IMO, just allow dickhead to incriminate themselves, that's the whole point of passive recording...
What I will say is that you shouldn't let it take up a second more of your time and energy than it has to, the investigation is closed. I would lodge your complaint with the IPCC, let it run its course and then put the whole thing behind you.
There are things to be grateful in all of this, he didn't follow through and smash your teeth in, and karma is sort of served by him probably having spent more with a solicitor than it would have cost to replace the property he damaged, funnily enough money he can't now spend on better gates to secure his flock. Plus he's probably now on the local plods radar for being an aggressive arse to strangers...
Ultimately you "win" more in this situation if you don't let it affect you unduly. Sometimes easier said than done...
Leave it a few month and then sneak on to his farm in the dead of night and shave bicycle component shapes in to all the sheep. If you’re not adept with the old shears simply make some templates and spray paint instead. Imagine his angry little face when he lets dolly and her friends out only to see handlebars, then a saddle, followed by a crank and then.....a 26” wheel!
@ neil the wheel I have an old Go Pro you can have for free if you need a camera too replace the one the moron smashed. PM me if so. I live in Hexham.
You know where the farm is and where the livestock is kept behind piss-poor gates.I would be
simmering for a few months before a night time visit in which i would endeavor to cause him a commensurate amount of anguish and loss.
Yes its wrong,yes its a character flaw but i have to act upon it.
Don't do anything but please post if you do.You may have to use code,I suggest;
"Broadsword calling Dannyboy,Broadsword calling Dannyboy,over"
You know where the farm is and where the livestock is kept behind piss-poor gates.
The sheep did nothing wrong leave them out of it
Agree, as much as I'd consider some long game revenge I wouldn't want the sheep (or him himself) to actually come to physical harm.
Thanks for all your advice, funny and wise as usual. I may post a link to the corrupted video files and anyone who fancies a go, do your best.
I will allow my 30-day Right to Review go through the process and I have been assigned a case officer for my official complaint so will work my way through this.
Otherwise, an application for an historical but unrecorded Bridleway over the Moor where they were grazing those sheep has suddenly gone to the top of my list.
TJ is right, the police are there to see if a criminal damage charge can be brought. But they probably do have better things to do that try to prove ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that the guy smashed your camera. Even if they wanted to (hint: they don’t) this would be extremely difficult to prove. Don’t hold your breath expecting them to be useful.
However, the county courts (typically although incorrectly known as the small claims courts) look at cases ‘on the balance of probability’ and may find in your favour. It only costs £35 to make an online claim so I would probably do that A) because you may win the cost of the camera and B) because it’ll be an extra headache for that tosser. You can look up the guidelines online but an attempt to communicate with him first is generally preferred.
@ captainklunkz thanks for your very kind offer.
The authorities are taking the path of least resistance.
If you don't want to be ignored, make sure that path isn't you.
Village farmer and village copper? They're probably drinking buddies.
Have a go with this:
https://www.ccleaner.com/recuva
Are you sure you weren't sheep rustling and had one under your arm? I can barely hear the ranting guy but the bleating sheep sounds like it's right next to the mic...
anagallis_arvensis
Free Member
You know where the farm is and where the livestock is kept behind piss-poor gates.
The sheep did nothing wrong leave them out of it
Posted 1 day ago
You have an ulterior motive here.
I can barely hear the ranting guy but the bleating sheep sounds like it’s right next to the mic…
I assumed he was 'bleating out' his own swear words!