[Closed] 9.3% Council Tax Rise

Just under 10% in West Lothian. Grumble grumble.

fourbanger - Member
4.5% for fewer services. Seems like a shit deal

Yes. It really is that simple.

🙄

not sure why I am paying for libraries , they have nearly all closed in lancs

15.3%, taking it to over 3k. This, while I sit and watch my council waste untold amounts of money on STUPID town improvement schemes that have made things worse for EVERYONE and received nothing but constant criticism from start to finish, yet they;ve stubbornly continued without changing their plans.

East Dunbartonshite Council, nobody, honestly, NO residents want your shared space in Kirkintilloch, or your utterly ridiculous Lenzie improvement schemes. Stop wasting this extra money you're so glad to be receiving.

teamhurtmore - Member
What happened to, "I am happy to pay more taxes for better services."

Well we appear to be keeping the paying more taxes side of the deal. Where are the better services?

Well we appear to be keeping the paying more taxes side of the deal. Where are the better services?

You do appreciate that the money that central government gives to local councils is actually our taxes don't you? And that with the cuts in the local council funding from central funds and the cap in council taxes rises since 2012 [b][u]we[/u][/b] will still be giving less to councils to pay for these services in both real and actual terms than we did 5 years ago even after the current increases? Just because one bit of paper says the amount is rising doesn't mean the total you are contributing to them both directly and indirectly has risen. You knew that didn't you; you were just trying to sound ignorant for bants?

I'm try to work out if being a politician is harder or easier with the electorate being a bunch on ignorant [I have a potty mouth].

Ah right. So it's my fault. Excellent.

4.9% in Bury.

The council are broke.

4.9%? Sounds like me trying to flog something on eBay for £9.99 to make it sound substantially less than £10.

You do appreciate that the money that central government gives to local councils is actually our taxes don't you? And that with the cuts in the local council funding from central funds and the cap in council taxes rises since 2012 we will still be giving less to councils to pay for these services in both real and actual terms than we did 5 years ago even after the current increases? Just because one bit of paper says the amount is rising doesn't mean the total you are contributing to them both directly and indirectly has risen. You knew that didn't you; you were just trying to sound ignorant for bants?

This - public sector - is the industry in which I work. Fwiw, that reduction is approximately 66%. The original plan to make couincil services more efficient by forcing reduction in adminstration and overstaffing via budget reduction has worked. What is often not appreciated is that Councils are also targetted - often a moving target depending on political direction - to improve their services. All in all, Councils are achieving the same at least if not more services with less staff, less money and less ability than they used to by a big margin. You should be grateful for the fact that they've achieved this its been and is a very difficult task.

If you want to compare, have a think about running your household on 66% less income, but with the higher tax, energy and service bills that are coming.

In turn, councils are pressuring thier out sourcers and suppliers for lower cost services within the bounds of affordability - commercially supporting a local government organisation has been and is a very competitive challenge and unfortunately some are being lured into "cheap" rather than quality - they have to be aware.

But savvy and appropriate things are happening - for example the post up there about new useless infrastructure - people have to be aware that its a self fulfilling prophecy - if you dont attract public and commcerce into the area, there is no council tax, business rates or spend in the local economy. Seen your Council officers wandering around with shiny new ipads? Yup, the cost of the software and the hardware both removes the admin of the process (cost) and improves the speed of the service component by over 60% - way out weighing the cost of the ipad, which in one case i know of was negotiated down to £105 per device.

I'd be very careful poking at the councils these days - in the most part they are working very hard in very challenging conditions to give you more of what you need, faster and more effectively.

They are working hard now Yes, I'll agree. But for 50 + years it's been widely accepted as a gravy train of haemorrhaging funds and a job for life.
I'm glad they're being kicked in the teeth and made to live in the real world.
Fareham Borough Confusion, nee' Council, had a Mayor driving around in a chauffeur driven brand spanking glass roofed Merc for well over 5 years to-and from his home to the office. Even through all that poncy glitter the council subsequently closed libraries, cut services to special needs and oversaw swathes of pagentry that wouldn't be out of place in a Disney Film.
And don't forget, these increases also equate to increases in Pension Fund top ups for all those paid directly by the Council.

The National Audit Office still announce every year £bn's of unaccounted for spending by councils who both fiddle and fail to maintain their accounts.

But we've all become accustomed to accepting it, it's part of Middle Gurlands right to moan point fingers and do sod all about it.

Its reducing bikebuoy - a lot. But everything youve just said appiles to private sector as well - they'll be many here that haven't had a pay rise this year while their boss flies around the world in private jets, enjoys the life a higher status brings and arrives in his/her fancy car.

Granted that public sector is more accountable to us the public. You should google the incoming rules regarding GDPR, many people are starting to shit themselves over the accessability to data that that may bring.

My point was - councils are not longer as bloated or useless as some of the posters in here make out. In fact they have been reduced to some very intelligent people learning to run a business in a private sector way, finding innovative ways to gerate income to support thier business and improve services to the public. Having access to the inside I know how fine the line being trodden is by a lot of councils, and its much finer than you might think, and its going to get worse.

The effect of this though is that the surrounding industry is also having to become cheaper and/or more innovative in thier support, all in all managed properly is a win win for the public.

As the Council charge is not based on use of services then the tax should be completely removed. Everyone will continue to use whatever services they do today
Councils would be provided an amount of money based on population of the borough from central government.

Money would come from general taxation which is a fairer way to generate it.

You should google the incoming rules regarding GDPR,

Already a programme I'm running, so completely aware of that... 😕

As the Council charge is not based on use of services then the tax should be completely removed. Everyone will continue to use whatever services they do today

I don't use respite services for people with learning difficulties but I know their importance to parents and carers and the difference it makes to their lives knowing they can have a break and their loved ones are well cared for.

I don't go to the library very often but I understand that they are a life line to certain people and communities.

I don't ride my bike down certain streets but I'm not churlish enough to think the residents deserves pot holes.

I don't require a translator when attempting to explain my needs as a human being having fled a brutal war but I am a human being with empathy.

The idea that you should only pay for service you use is both stupid and short sighted and would ultimately lead to the most vulnerable being shafted.

Having recently left working in the public sector it's been no picnic. In five years I was moved five times in mostly frontline services, all due to government cuts. When faced with being moved again I took the opportunity to jump ship before the whole lot goes down. I'm not working in a large, private sector job and was looking forward to the efficiency I'd heard so much about. Three weeks in and I've only just been granted the correct IT access to do my job. It's a myth. Kryton summed it up pretty well above.

The idea that you should only pay for service you use is both stupid and short sighted and would ultimately lead to the most vulnerable being shafted.

A very eloquent post, but the person you quoted was arguing that services should be funded via general taxation, not paid by service users.

A very eloquent post, but the person you quoted was arguing that services should be funded via general taxation, not paid by service users.

Exactly, meaning the most vulnerable are in a better position.

all these people with numbers >5%, how has that happened?

I thought rises above 5% had to be by referendum, and i don't recall much in the press about them. The only one I recall is the Surrey one which was going to be 15% until [s]a deal was done with the government to avoid embarrassment[/s] whoops, silly me, they had another look and decided they only needed 4.99% after all.

Individual Council rises + Scottish Government Council Tax multiplier innit.......

http://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=33006

It's your own fault for not living in Surrey

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/09/surrey-council-tax-referendum-david-hodge-cuts

No bill here yet (West Lancs) but a quick google indicates the rise is under 4%.

Which is bloody good value given the significant cuts local authorities have endured in the name of austerity.

I'm glad they're being kicked in the teeth and made to live in the real world.

Those cleaners, carers and the like have been living the high life for too long now! It's about time they cleaned up the mess the financial sector got us in... 🙄

No idea. I don't look as it depresses me and I don't approve of all of the spending. Some yes, some no including a 4 sided A4 colour sheet telling me how they bloody well spend it. Probably small beer in the scheme of things but it indicates as less that tight purse.
I also see the need to spread the funding around a bit but I do object to funding peoples leisure and interests when we are short of homes for the oldies. I abhor the idea that its ok to spend on luxuries before essentials or use other peoples money to do such a thing. I must admit to saying that even as young and hard up chap in the days of the Poll tax I saw value in that. The principle that you pay more for the size of the house is immoral. So many older people than i have nice houses because they scrimped and saved and worked on these house when their kids were growing. To penalise that now isn't very fair. I am married, both working, and home owning. We use nothing provided except those we can't avoid.
We get no help from the police when actually needed, they don't bloody well come. Of course there isn't the man power, but I am still not seeing much to encourage me. I just don't feel that I am being fairly treated. I don't dispute the costs of my living in society but do object to paying more yet taking less than others. That isn't how the world naturally works, its how some people want it to work.
Al of this is the reason why I do my very best to not look at bills I have to pay. I can chose not to tax my car!

all these people with numbers >5%, how has that happened?

I can only speak for my area but basically the area has now been divided into parish councils, with some services offloaded to these. It meant the central figure could rise by the maximum amount without a referendum taking place, with a similar rise for the new parish councils.

That isn't how the world naturally works, its how some people want it to work.

I think in many parts of the natural world that is exactly how it works, certainly in the case of social animals anyway. Survival of the fittest sounds good, but is demonstrably not necessarily the case at a micro level at least.

But then if we don't value society, why should we pay to support it?

can't beat a good bit of council/public service bashing!

The reality is we all take for granted the services provided which overall cost less than if we had to pay privately for everything. Take energy prices since privatisation prices haven't gone down or being remotely competitive.

Also with all the anti public sector rubbish often spouted by Tory ministers and papers they forget that most are on low pay and I would suggest many of the services provided simply would not exist in a privately operated world, you aren't going to make any profit running a library.

I don't use half of the services my local council provide but I do not begrudge paying for them as they give access and opportunities to those who otherwise could not afford it.

As for the old job for life gold plated pensions that really is just rubbish spouted by those idiots who want to pass the blame and hide their own failings. Following the credit crunch the government would have you believe it was public sector workers fault rather than multinational companies clearly acting illegally. I think the only public sector workers getting above inflation pay rise is mp's but they like to gloss over that whilst blaming local council for tax increases.

And no I don't work in local government.

Our council can no longer afford to collect garden waste so you have to opt-into a scheme and pay extra for it. It's daft because it just means that recycled waste will just get put in with general waste, which sort of defeats the point of separate collections in the first place. They cannot put the tax up any further without a referendum, so gone for this scheme. It's been frozen for ages.

Heres an interesting comparison:

https://wasteconcern.com/product/residential-order/ =£709pa private collection

Or Local gov costs debate as an increase to current

[i]
The report avoided any specific recommendations for the level of the charge but schemes on the Continent raise between 25p and 50p for each kilogram of waste. If similar charges were introduced in Britain, the average family could pay up to £10 a month or £120 a year to have their bins collected.

For those who dont percieve value from thier council could start at the £500+ they are saving on thier bin collections...

"But then if we [s]don't value society[/s] have used it to our advantage, why should we pay [s]to support it[/s]for someone else to have the same opportunities as me?"

*fixed

Our council can no longer afford to collect garden waste so you have to opt-into a scheme and pay extra for it.

The main reason they started was to meet EU targets for % of waste recycled by mass. Hence, collecting grass clippings, which are heavy, was a simple way to game the system and get their recycling numbers up without actually dealing with the real problem...

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scotroutes - Member
Depends on banding

Really?

I'm in Surrey, we have too many old people to pay for....

The main reason they started was to meet EU targets for % of waste recycled by mass. Hence, collecting grass clippings, which are heavy, was a simple way to game the system and get their recycling numbers up without actually dealing with the real problem...

Yep, short term thinking affects local government as much as national government.

Which is bloody good value given the significant cuts local authorities have endured in the name of [b]austerity[/b].

THM to the forum!!