[Closed] 9/11 documentary

1) Isnt it impossible to fly a big aeroplane at such a low speed/altitude?

So a fire from office furnishings was hot enough to cause wtc 7 to perfectly drop at free fall speeds?

the fire was from hundreds of tonnes of jet fuel and the building did not fall at freefall speed. If you look at the recordings and time them its clear it was not freefall speed.

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

did you know gullible is not in the dictionary?

The planes were not being flown at low speed, this is more myth. The first plane was between 429 and 494mph, the second 537 and 586mph at impact, which "exceeded even the emergency dive speed," for that type of aircraft.

I always like the traces of products found in thermite were found claims, as there is no other possible explanation of why there would be iron oxide and aluminium in a sky scraper struck by a commercial airplane.

The overwhelmingly by argument for a non-conspiracy is that there's never been a whilstleblower from the inside. A conspiracy such as this would of involved hundreds, if not thousands of people. Not one person has come forward and said "I was on the inside" 15+ years later.

For me this is the key arguement against the conspiracy theorists

anyone ever met a conspiracist who only believe one conspiracy?
We all know our govt lies to us as at various times but these folk always pick the least likely things as their examples

Junkyard - lazarus

anyone ever met a conspiracist who only believe one conspiracy?

Nope. Because it's not the individual conspiracy that holds them in thrall - it's the satisfaction they get from mining secret knowledge others are blind to.

The problem is, this sort of "theory" and i use the word carefully, is generally taken up by not very intelligent minority.

The sort of people who say things like "but planes can't fly at low altitudes" or similar.....

There is no point trying to have a logical and rational discussion with these morons, they've made there minds up already, nothing that can be said and no evidence or science that can be explained can change there blinkered mind. Unfortunately, the sort of people who believe this sort of thing often do so because there own lives are so dull and un-eventful they find it exciting and interesting to actually create some attention from claiming ridiculous theories etc.

Consider the following scientific facts:

1) the WTC towers each weighed, according to most sources, around 500,000 tonnes

2) the towers stood around 400m tall

Science tells us that the potential energy in each of those towers was (PE=mgh) 9.81E+11 joules, the same energy as that contained in 235 tonnes of TNT!!

here's what just 2.2 tonnes of a basic ammonium nitrate (fertiliser) explosive (a lot lower velocity blast than TNT, in fact it is rated at just 42%) does to a building:

[img] [/img]

This is why pretty much nothing but small pieces and molten metal were found. The energy in the collapse is absolutely massive, enough to actually melt steel.

Also people say "but the building collapsed as if in freefall"??

Duh, how else would you expect a building to collapse under the force of gravity, especially a build that is characteristically tall and thin, ie, who's CofG is effectively very high off the ground. (ignoring the fact that i haven't actually seen any analysis on the speed of the collapse. Enough video evidence exists that the acceleration profile of the collapse could be calculated, and the forces calculated etc)

And finally, and here the killer blow to all conspiracy theorists:

SO WHAT?

lets say the WTC was blown up by the american government, what are you going to do about ?? The answer of course is nothing. Tomorrow the sun will rise just like it did today regardless of the "truth", and you'll have to go to work to earn money, like you did today, and the world will continue to spin on it's axis. Events of massive magnitude on a human scale (like the WTC attack) are, in the grand scheme of things, utterly irrelevant.......

Interestingly I have a friend who is a top notch engineer and well above average intelligence who whilst not believing all the tin foil hat stuff about the twin towers does believe that there was more to it than plane hits tower, tower falls down and will not be shifted from this beief

WT7 was a controlled demolition,.... please look into it. This means that the other two towers were too.

The second plane's nose emerged intact out the other side of the building? I'm afraid that is impossible.

And yes, many experts have said that a commercial plane could not fly at the high speed, altitude, flight path to impact quoted in the report.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people would rather live with the untruth, it's more comfortable that way.

say a demolition expert had a call to say do this job and we'll pay you a couple of million dollars for a weeks work, but never mention it to anyone or you will die,....there would be some takers.

False flag events are not new, The Nazi's did one and blamed the Polish - Reichstag fire.

and why all the name calling and berating? It is possible that people have different opinions, and they might be right and you might be wrong or vis a vis.

^^ Donald is that you?? 😉

WT7 was a controlled demolition,....

Have you seen the preparation required for a controlled demolition?

How was all that work performed and nobody in the building noticed?

Utterly brilliant loon fest

e'll pay you a couple of million dollars for a weeks work, but never mention it to anyone or you will die,....there would be some

The second plane's nose emerged intact out the other side of the building? I'm afraid that is impossible.

And yes, many experts have said that a commercial plane could not fly at the high speed, altitude, flight path to impact quoted in the report.

say a demolition expert had a call to say do this job and we'll pay you a couple of million dollars for a weeks work, but never mention it to anyone or you will die,....there would be some takers.

FWIW i do agree a demolition expert could demolish this, or any other, building - who has denied this and what do you think that just proved?

maxtorque - Member

The problem is, this sort of "theory" and i use the word carefully, is generally taken up by [b]not very intelligent minority[/b].

The sort of people who say things like "but planes can't fly at low altitudes" or similar.....

Unfortunately, you're wrong. I have a friend who's certainly above average intelligence and a brilliant designer, and he buys into all of this. I shared an office with another guy for four years who is a legitimate genius imo and he also went deep into these conspiracies.

It only takes about three "facts". Steel melts at C. Jets can't fly at Y. The building fell like Z...and you have the fuel for a conspiracy. And unless these "facts" happen to be in your area of professional expertise it requires a lot of study and energy to understand and disprove them. This is the part they don't do.

This is a phenomenon that's not going to go away and it'll probably get a whole lot worse as we go further and further down the rabbit whole of internet life.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people would rather live with the untruth, it's more comfortable that way.

No. Some people like to believe rubbish like this because it makes them feel superior. They like to think they're 'special' because they know the truth.
Any amount of facts isn't going to change their minds.

9:48 .... this policeman appears to have a crystal ball...

9:48 .... this policeman appears to have a crystal ball...

Or maybe he'd been speaking to the firefighters...

As posted on the previous page:

At approximately 2:00 pm, firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors, a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse.[35] During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building.[36] Around 3:30 pm, FDNY Chief Daniel A. Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal, and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel.

the ex prime minister can't even keep it quiet that he likes felatio from a dead pig,

And yes, many experts have said that a commercial plane could not fly at the high speed, altitude, flight path to impact quoted in the report.

Or maybe he'd been speaking to the firefighters...

As posted on the previous page:

it's going to fall down now.... is he a structural engineer? Were the firefighters.

Buildings do not freefall collapse due to a few office fires.

I would suggest the report you quote is BS. Like the whole commission report, so it's of little use to me.

9:48 .... this policeman appears to have a crystal ball...

So a policeman who could probably be readily identified from his badge, is in on the conspiracy?

it's going to fall down now.... is he a structural engineer? Were the firefighters.

No, but the firefighters are probably quite experienced at observing structural failure from fire damage.

errmmm - does every aircraft not fly in a controlled manner at slow speed near to the ground when landing?

9/11 flight speed video.

what I thought TJ clearly they can fly at low levels and speed or they cannot take off.

An old American political ‘fact’ designed and spread to discredit the opposition, just like Trump does every day of the week.

Dave did not sue - this does not make it true but it is interesting.

No, but the firefighters are probably quite experienced at observing structural failure from fire damage

experienced enough to know exactly when it's going to collapse? Very doubtful.

experienced enough to know exactly when it's going to collapse? Very doubtful.

So the police and firefighters were in on it as well?

Is that what you are saying?

drop at free fall speeds?

Anyone willing to repeat this most basic of myths/lies isn’t worth listening to.

I’ve not watched the documentary, but I’d bet my house that this lie is repeated over and over and over.

None of the buildings fell at “free fall” speeds, or even close.

So the police and firefighters were in on it as well?

Is that what you are saying?

no.

I've been riding my bike.

So the police and firefighters were in on it as well?
Is that what you are saying?

no.

So what is significance of the responders predicting it was about to fall?

I remember seeing a programme on telly a while back about the causes of the trade towers collapse, can’t remember which channel, but it went into exhaustive detail, including computer simulations and analysis of the construction, materials and the effects on them by the impact of a large passenger jet traveling at several hundred knots with tons of highly flammable avgas onboard.
Not sure if this is connected to it, but it does explain certain things.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/worldtradecenter.shtml
http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews/NationalGeographic/cache/9-11-science-and-conspiracy-4067.html

Anyone willing to repeat this most basic of myths/lies isn’t worth listening to.

I’ve not watched the documentary, but I’d bet my house that this lie is repeated over and over and over.

None of the buildings fell at “free fall” speeds, or even close.

Anyone willing to repeat this most basic of myths/lies isn’t worth listening to.

I’ve not watched the documentary, but I’d bet my house that this lie is repeated over and over and over.

something for you.

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/911NutPhysics.HTM

Something for you.

Apologies that it’s all in actual written words, no easy to digest video with comic sans text overlays.

So what is significance of the responders predicting it was about to fall?

If someone higher up than you tells you something you take it as truth, especially in a situation like this. So someone new it was going to collapse. Given the timescale, the ability to properly diagnose the damage would I have thought been nigh on impossible. This was no small building.

This only leads to the reality,...someone higher up the chain new WC7 was rigged to be demolished.

Apologies that it’s all in actual written words, no easy to digest video with comic sans text overlays.

shame you couldn't help yourself.

I shall give it a read.

f someone higher up than you tells you something you take it as truth, especially in a situation like this. So someone new it was going to collapse. Given the timescale, the ability to properly diagnose the damage would I have thought been nigh on impossible. This was no small building.

This only leads to the reality,...someone higher up the chain new WC7 was rigged to be demolished.

That’s a lot of logical jumps to ‘prove’ what you already believe.

If someone higher up than you tells you something you take it as truth, especially in a situation like this. So someone new it was going to collapse. Given the timescale, the ability to properly diagnose the damage would I have thought been nigh on impossible. This was no small building.

This only leads to the reality,...someone higher up the chain new WC7 was rigged to be demolished.

FFS. 🙄

Why would the person that knew the building was about to be demolished start telling people it was going to fall?

Whathaveisaidnow - Member

WT7 was a controlled demolition,.... please look into it.

The video that you posted shows 7WTC collapsing and shows a controlled demolition for comparison.
Why does 7WTC collapse in one corner first?
Many seconds before the rest of the building?
That's not how a controlled demo happens.

Your own "evidence" disagrees with you.

Watch the videos; it's obviously a controlled demolition. You can see the charges exploding as the building falls.
Why would the entire building fall down when the crash site was at the top?

This thread is too obvious for you Taylforth.
Take your talents elsewhere. 🙂

My life has reached it's nadir.

I'm arguing with truthers on the interweb. 🙄

Unfortunately, you're wrong. I have a friend who's certainly above average intelligence and a brilliant designer, and he buys into all of this. I shared an office with another guy for four years who is a legitimate genius imo and he also went deep into these conspiracies.

It only takes about three "facts". Steel melts at C. Jets can't fly at Y. The building fell like Z...and you have the fuel for a conspiracy. And unless these "facts" happen to be in your area of professional expertise it requires a lot of study and energy to understand and disprove them. This is the part they don't do.

1. your genius mate doesn't understand aerodynamics or the performance envelopes of aircraft because aircraft can fly at low speed down to about 200mph or less depending on the aircraft, its weight, the wind direction and strength. They're designed to fly at 40k feet where the air is thin - so flying at low altitudes where the air is like soup in comparison is easy peasy. No really, it is not a challenge at all and certainly not witchcraft. It's perfectly explainable and understandable. I'm of average intelligence at best and certainly not a genius and fully understand and comprehend it, and indeed in a proper flight simulator have flown a jumbo jet at low speed underneath the Golden Gate bridge, so it is entirely possible.

2. your genius mate has not yet grasped the fact that melting steel has nothing to do with the structural failure of the towers. Steel has lost half of its strength at around 600 degrees c - it's not even glowing red at that temperature, so no surprise the towers collapsed under the heat of burning jet fuel - which might burn naturally in still air at about 1500 degrees, but can achieve much higher temperatures if oxygen is pumped into it - like the updrafts created when jet fuel is burning in a confined space....say like in a sky scraper. The combustion temperatures in aircraft jet engines achieve well over 2000 degrees C and could go much hotter...and they run off jet fuel.

3. plenty of experts and specialists have confirmed the building collapsed completely and definitely in accordance to expectations given the failure mechanism.

Being a genius or above average intelligence doesn't mean you always arrive at the correct outcome. History is full of genius' and experts who have got things wrong.

I'm not sure what all the conspiracy theories are. Why is there such surprise and doubt that the towers collapsed after being hit by aircraft? Are the conspiricsts saying that aircraft didn't fly into the towers 'because aircraft can't fly at low altitudes'? Are they saying that they were flown by CIA operative - ones that signed upto a suicide mission? And if it was so implausible or impossible to collapse the towers by aircraft crashing into them so they felt the need to have a backup plan to cause the towers to collapse, like explosives, then didn't they anticipate there would be experts out there that would establish the facts?

One thing is certain. Any government or government department is incapable of keeping secrets. they all come out eventually.

Why would the entire building fall down when the crash site was at the top?

Because the top of the building did collapse first, then the weight and impact of the top part of the building falling down over stressed the lower part which then collapsed. This is easily observed - you clearly see the top part of the building fall before the lower part. In controlled demolitions the entire building falls at the same time, not from the top down. The failure mechanism couldn't be more different from a controlled demolition. You can see from the image below...the top part is collapsing before the lower part...

[img] [/img]

From memory wt7 had a sunken shopping Center and underground parking , it was a box built on a hole.
Two massive towers fell into the ground nearby each with a force greater than a ww2 bombers payload.
Wt7 then caught fire it does not take a structural engineer to work out that building was doomed.
The fire crews realised and abandined the building. It is near certain that information was shared with the police.
It is massively illogical to think local patrol officers would a) have been briefed on a higher up conspiracy b) stupid enough to blurt it out in the street c) careless enough not to neutralise the witness and evidence if their tongue did slip and d) dedicated enough to keep the secret en mass for all these years.
+ Why what would be the point of staging 9/11 ?

It is built on a box - or rather built into the ground, like a built in beam. Remember a few years before the failed attempt to drive a van packed with explosives into one of the underground car parks that was rumbled? Experts reckon that if the explosives had been detonated then the resulting explosion would have done significant structural damage and could have event led to the collapse of the tower.

These guys have had a few bites at the cherry and unfortunately in 9/11 they succeeded.