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One of my siblings was a finance director of a craft brewery.
You're paying for the higher quality of ingredients, mainly hops, and often higher amount required in double or triple hopped IPA's. On top of that you're paying for the brewers experience and knowledge.
This is where the craft bit comes in as the brewer is doing a small batch with expensive ingredients and they need to balance things off and account for the PH and purity of the water and make sure the whole thing is done at the correct temps and for the right time. It's something they only get to with having a really good knowledge of beer production.
I've had a few of the more expensive ones that brewery produced and i'm now much more inclined to buy a really good beer than wine. I like the challenge of some of them and the complexity of others
You could give two brewers exactly the same yeast, hops and malt but they could get vastly different beers out it just from their process and the water source alone.
People who spend hideous amounts of money on miserable little cans of pasteurised beer fizzed up with CO2 are victims of the old marketing adage that if you sell things very expensive you can fool a certain number of gullible and cash-rich people into believing the product must be superior in some way.
This.
You know that beer got delivered to the pub in a big metal tin, was made in a big metal tank?
That’s pretty much any commercial beer. But what a traditional small brewery doesn’t do is stick it a can, pasteurise and CO2 it to death. Then stick it in a fridge.
I worked as a brewer at a small brew pub and also for one of Europe’s largest breweries canning their beer and cider. Beer before and after pasteurisation is totally different. I’ve put some of my home brew through a pasteuriser before now to see what the effect was. It completely destroyed it.
I've drunk plenty of "artisanal craft beer" and I remember when proper beer was called "real ale", and I understand why craft beer is called craft beer and not real ale! Some craft beer is nice, some is not and the price charged has very little to do with that.
The point still stands. Brewdog are now a company that mass produces craft beer and sells it pretty cheaply. I like some of their beer, but not all of it. The point is that their beer is no worse now than when they were a little start up 10 years ago.
Belgian "abbey beer" is largely mass produced but also generally excellent. Cheap crappy lager and cider are still cheap and crappy. The fact they are mass produced is not the reason they are crappy!
That’s pretty much any commercial beer. But what a traditional small brewery doesn’t do is stick it a can, pasteurise and CO2 it to death. Then stick it in a fridge.
https://www.micromatic.com/beer-questions/pasteurized-and-non-pasteurized-keg-beer
Now a serious question are all craft beers pasteurised?
Have you tried any of the beers we are talking about here?
Most craft beers aren't pasteurised.
Also pasteurisation isn't a Yes/No thing. There are different ways to do it, and the basic trade off is between increased product stability and "acceptable" flavour degradation....
Earlier this year i left a can of Tennents lager out in my garden, in a spot that gets direct sunlight (and reaches 50c) until about 2pm and then is in the shade until morning. Was out there for about 6 months.
Stuck it in the fridge and opened it along with a fresh can. Barely any difference - a slight hint of trans-2-nonenal (A sort of cardboard-y flavour associated with aged beer), but if the test had been a blind AB or triangle test you wouldn't notice.
That's pretty impressive flavour stability. How you want to view the trade-off in flavour though.....
^ actually, I've had unpasteurised tennents on tap at Drygate, at the Tennents brewery.. Doubt I could tell the difference tbh
I recently had some Pilsner straight out of a barrel in the cellars of Pilsner Urquell over in Czech. Absolutely outstanding!
Yes I don't usually drink Eurofizz but behind my usual hotel in Addis Ababa I've found a small German-owned craft brewery and the lager there is in a different league, being fresh as fresh can be and not stored for weeks.
Now a serious question are all craft beers pasteurised?
If it’s in a can, then yes.
Cans are coated on the inside to prevent taint from the aluminium. All canned beer is either CO2 or nitrogen doused to add pressure, essential to maintain the structural integrity of the can for storage and transportation. Also as a flooding agent before the can end is sealed to drive out oxygen, which will spoil the drink.
Bottled beer ret can be unpasteurised, but again will be CO2 or nitrogen flooded and then fobbed to drive out the oxygen to prevent spoiling.
Cask conditioned beer isn’t pasteurised, at least on small scale breweries, but the action of vigorous filling creates a natural fobbing of the beer and cask. Once tapped that beer will slowly degrade once oxygen is allowed into the cask.
If it’s in a can, then yes.
It's not universally done though, I've got mates who have used mobile canning and I'm 99% sure it's not been done.
Cask conditioned beer isn’t pasteurised, at least on small scale breweries, but the action of vigorous filling creates a natural fobbing of the beer and cask. Once tapped that beer will slowly degrade once oxygen is allowed into the cask.
And the final point really is does it make a difference, I've sampled a heap of canned and fresh keg brews from lots of people over the last few years and I'd say I can't tell the difference from those, in some cases the same beer that is coming out of a tap on the wall is in cans next to it.
These guys are producing some great beer and selling it, the craft/keg brewing industry is a UK success story which is actually creating new venues and through tap rooms and cellar door type operations. Brewdog are opening bars which are popular and vibrant.
If you want to obsess over the production details and claim one is better than the other then go for it but don't forget to try some of the beer.
Edit - this sounds like the 29r debate at times
surely there is room for both keg and cask
west berks (cask) set up renegade (keg) to get around the camra restrictions
they're just integrating the two together. I think things are changing
If you want to obsess over the production details
I’m just offering my experience from years within the brewing industry. I like good beer, I’ve brewed good beer, I like the fact that there is now much more choice. I just don’t buy into “craft beer” when the reality is far from it.
I just don’t buy into “craft beer” when the reality is far from it.
Does it taste good? That is question one and the most important. Once we have got through that one we can talk about how they rammed gas into it.
the lager there is in a different league, being fresh as fresh can be and not stored for weeks.
???
Do you know what lager means?
I think there is some confusion. Pasteurising is the act of heating the liquid or liquid in its container up to a certain temperature for a certain amount of time, to kill a certain percentage of biological spoilage organisms.
Using inert gases for packaging to carbonate or reduce oxygen contact is a different thing.
Also, cask beers (and some bottles, and even cans) continue fermenting and conditioning in their containers. This creates CO2 which carbonates the beer and keeps things fresh and allows the flavours to develop.
But in general, not all canned beers are pasteurised. Cloudwater don't pasteurise their beer - I've been all round their brewery. Their shelf life is about 6 weeks I believe. Larher 'macro' beers (such as Tennents which is pasteurised - I've seen the mschine) have shelf lives nearer a year.
I think what breweries like Cloudwater, Kernel and many other small breweries is really interesting, there is so much variety in beer now as someone who grow up in Portsmouth and started drinking in 1991, there was weak lager, strong lager, Guinness and maybe Newcastle Brown if you were lucky!
To have the variety we have now is brilliant and many of the bars and tap rooms that go with it can have soe real character. I would rather have one or two cans of an interesting, full flavoured beer than 8 can of Fosters any day of the week.
I look at many of the imperial stouts that sit at around 10- 15% ABV and i treat them like a wine, they are there to be sipped and enjoyed not drunk in quantity.
^ yes. I had a 500ml bottle of a 13% smoked/chocolate/coffee/vanilla/raisin/chipotle stout that I made last night. Took all night to drink - was up studying til 2AM...
Do you ever feel the need for a chicken sandwich meal from maccy d’s?
Having spent two years wandering up and down the country, over tens of thousands of miles, I have to say yes to that.
However, where beer’s concerned, I’m a little more discriminating, and I really don’t like the fad for heavily hopped blond beers with a strong citrus flavour, thankfully it appears to be dying off a bit. Tonight I had a couple of pints of Three Daggers bitter, from my regular pub in Corsham, the Flemish Weaver. Three Daggers is a pub in Edington, near Westbury, and they have their own brewery, their brewmaster worked for Guinness, apparently. Anyway, they really do know how to brew a pint! I’ve tried four different brews of theirs, and their Blond is outstanding, just enough hops to give a slight edge, but the sort of rich flavour that has you saying, you know what, I will have another. And another. A bit like Tiny Riot’s Cwtch, or Purple Moose’s Dark Side Of The Moose. The great thing about the Weaver is they usually have four different beers on tap at any given moment, and they’re changed all the time, and sourced from all over the country.
Yum. 🍺
I nearly bought 4 cans of something the other day and the guy said "you know they're $44 for 4? They're 8% you know?". I put them back. What's a 4 pack of Tennent's Super cost these days? Jeez!
I think you will find alotof creft beers are filtered and not pasteurised . Some will be rough filtered down to .8 or .9 microns as thats pretty quick, cheap and reliable for a good few months of shelf life. Others will be sterile filtered down to .45micron to get a 1 year shelf life.
This is done after a period of cold conditioning to remove haze forming protein without the need for chemical / biological processing aids , so the beer stays clear.
Chances are the beer will be gassed / topped up with CO2 in a bulk tank 'big metal tin ' before being canned
There are 2 or 3 mobile canners who rock up with a van and will process your beer without the need for a huge capital investment in a canning line, hence the growth in the can market
Cans are easy to purge , recyclable, lightweight, safe to handle and do not allow UV to harm the beer.
The main reason for the price hike is output per man hours , if they are a small brewery the duty rate will be lower but this is offset by production volume per sq mtr , wages , and other overheads .
Buying small amounts of hops from a hop merchant is always going to be more expensive than buying a few tons straight from the grower .
Malts.- Bigger breweries pay 1/3 less for 17T bulk delivered into silo's by dedicated lorry than niche breweries buying 1ton in polyprop sacks
I bought one, accidentally, I’d buy one again (for a special treat though). It is delicious
£4 pints of real ale are actually really boring so yeah, £8 for delicious Cloudwater is actually great value
Where do you get your shoes in Northampton?
or
Well today I was shocked, I was in a pub today and they were charging £22 for a bottle of wine! £22 English pounds I tell you, now anyone can see it's just some grape juice. Then I saw the price of the fizzy stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you get your shoes in Northampton?
Trickers factory outlet, they used to have a shop on eBay but now it’s online, I also have some RTW George Cleverley (made by Crockett& Jones) their bespoke are way above my budget.
500ml bottle of a 13% smoked/chocolate/coffee/vanilla/raisin/chipotle stout that I made last night.
That sounds like me perfect beer, and to link back to the title; I probably would pay £10 for it! Once at least.
Have spent £10 a few times but never found them worth buying a second time. Brewdog vs Beavertown Cigarettes & Alcohol is the only one I can remember. I'd buy it again at a fiver but no more (it was limited ed so there won't be a chance)
My girlfriend paid £10-12 for a bottle of Westvleteren 12 for my Christmas last year, and after the hype I couldn't believe how bad it tasted. So much so that I actually want to buy another bottle just to confirm that the first wasn't dodgy!
My favourite beer that's in regular production is probably Tempest Mexicake. Fairly similar in description to the homebrew above, and that's £4.50-£5 when you can find it.
Blimey, I was planning a little trip to Cloudwater this afternoon to test some of these arguments but then I looked at their prices. I think a wander down to Swan Street or Port Street is more within my beer budget, and it's cask. So I'll never know.
Blimey, I was planning a little trip to Cloudwater this afternoon to test some of these arguments but then I looked at their prices.
Have they changed from the £3 for everything model? (Not the same sized glass for all beers) Perfect tasting sizes
I think I've paid near £8 for some of the limit collabs from the likes of Verdant.
Verdant's brewery is nearby but it's cheaper to go over to Truro Red Elephant Beer Cellar, they are cheaper.... Not had a can of Pulp is a while, might have to treat myself....
Maybe One more PSI was a nice DIPA
Where do you get your shoes in
Trickers factory outlet, they used to have a shop on eBay but now it’s online, I also have some RTW George Cleverley (made by Crockett& Jones) their bespoke are way above my budget.
ha! mother in law works at crocketts... would rather buy from tk max (and do)!
jeffery west now theres a quality boot.
Compared to £4 for a pissy pint of lager I'd pay £8 all day. Cloudwater is nice.
Local off licence does 3 for £5 on slightly out of best before date.
Was walking past the local craft beer shop and came out with a can of Marble Damage plan IPA, 7.1% 330ml can for just under £6.
I know I should have got a big can of cloudwater at 8-9% but I’m not a huge drinker and I was after a smaller can.
will drink it to tomorrow and report back. I have been to the Marble inn in Manchester and bought their beers before just not at £18/litre.
I just drank 4 500ml tins of Balter IIPA. 5 of your english pounds a can.
at 8% they've done the trick.
Oooo that sounds good, the regular Balter was good too.
it's my new favourite brewery.
You not been over to Hobart then?
I shall be drinking in my all time favourite Pub of real ale awesomeness, at £3.20 a pint of nectar, this weekend.
Welcome to join me 😜
Do they serve any craft beer or is one of those snobby CAMRA joints?
Very underwhelming, seems to be all about the alcohol, a feint hoppy/citrus and thankfully not OTT on the bitterness. It’s almost a bit sickly and that’s from somebody who drinks and enjoys the tartness of a lambic beer (with the feint bile overtones)
all it’s doing is getting me pissed and for a lightweight I would rather drink something else,
it reminds me of Popperings Hommelbier which is equally as strong but a much nicer drink.
i could have bought 2 bottles of Kernel or many other beers instead.
im not even going to finish this as there’s a glass of wine left in a bottle that’s being poured as soon as my food comes out the oven.
i’ll buy Marble beers again but this isn’t one of them (will be one of their stouts/porters).
Oh and try
https://www.brewdog.com/fanzine
£11 delivered for 3x330ml cans
All Different all interesting
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmOWNwBhH8v/?taken-by=smithmichaelw
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlqWSb3B_0A/?taken-by=smithmichaelw
But 4 tins of Punk IPA are only £6 !!
LOL very true but the Choco Libre is just sublime, that little bit of habenero hiding behind the chocolate
On a par with some of the nicest dark shiraz's I've had
I paid £5.50 for a pint of San Miguel @ Manchester Ritz the other night. Twice. Who's the ****ing mug!?
Then I had a £5 can of Brooklyn summer ale, much much better!!
I paid £7 for a pint of Sierra Nevada at an outdoor gig the other night, I thought that was a bit steep until I thought about it - Carlsberg was £5...so £2 extra for something ****ing decent isn't really that bad. I had one of those and then moved onto Samuel Adams which was also £7 a pint...not quite as nice but still worth the £2 extra in my book.
Well dropped into Cloudwater last night, some greats some not quite hitting the spot but the standout was certainly the Golden Sour £3 for 1/3 but it was a fine drink and much better than the glass of wine you would have got for that price!!
Not sure how the other local business is going to react to the number of people trooping up and down from Piccadilly to there 🙂
I need to put my prices up....