[Closed] 6 Nations

I think you can safely blame the ref for Vickery's lack of scrummaging ability in the first test. How a player can be penalised for standing up when his feet have been lifted off the ground is beyond me.

sorry but thats funny, not sure I blame the ref, things certainly turned around when adam jones came. no ****ers gonna lift him off the ground!!

Adam Jones = Legend.

WIsh I could find that great interview where he had a teacup and saucer in hand and basically just chatted away leisurely. So smooth!

Great to see proper scrummaging again, especially with Gethin and Ads leading the way. Then again, the Italians and Argentians pretty much rule the roost for the front row these days!

Still not the VietGwent, look you!

Flashheart swear allegiance to Ospreylia 🙂 saw hilights of Leicester punishing Wasps, has given me sleepless nights. Looked very strong.

Yes, it was huge news actually.

CFH, Despite being english you support wales? O...K...

I'm British. In case you didn't spot what I said, it was "Half English...Half Welsh". See?

I'll make it easy. Where were you born?

Overseas. What of it?

backhander - Member

Yes, it was huge news actually.

No really it wasn't. "bet that hurt. that'll teach him" is about as far as it went.

Weren't you two arguing about this during the Lions tour as well?

I expect so. Backhander is one of those english fans that perplex me though as they cannot see what a fantastic player Gavin Henson is/was. Those tackles plus the huge hits he put on Lewsy and a prop white I think, were massively influential in the result that day. Henson played brilliantly from start to finish. All the talk before the game was how England only had to turn up to win and the new star was Matt Tait.

You guys are getting all excited over 3rd, 4th and 5th place though aren't you? 😛

No, you're completely mistaken. It's the welsh paranoia that nobody understands Henson except the welsh. I get it, I know how good he was and you will not find me say a bad word about him. BUT it was only a tackle, the likes of which is seen week in week out in the ML and GP.

fair point 😥 do you think Ireland can get a grand slam this year? France look strong and you've got to go to paris.

BUT it was only a tackle

come on stick to the script, two tackles and a kick its all he ever did

I don't think they can a_a...for much the same reason as you...

The first game against Italy will be a stuttering win for sure... 😆

We have Stade de France this year - not a happy hunting ground for us - though the current team has won there - so it's not like they have no knowledge of getting results there. Don't underestimate the relish of an opportunity to get one over on the French (there's a much bigger intersection of travelling fans between football and rugby in Ireland) though.

I think we could win any of the rest of them. Our front row needs some serious looking at. During the AI's (and a lot of the slam winning 6N), our scrum took a right battering, even though the line-out functioned very well...I assume that's down to something going on the front row that I don't really understand. If anything, and maybe this is green tinted spectacles, but it shows the quality around the rest of the team that with a battered scrum, that we drew and could have won against a good Australian side and beat the Boks, though our scrum did look much better organised for that game.

I suppose the team can relax a bit this year - without this unbearable yoke of the best Irish team not to win a GS - there were times in the last 6N that you could see it etched on their faces. And we all know, it wasn't the highest quality 6N ever, but all the same, a slam's a slam and believe me, they'd take it any way i came.

As for Scotland, I can see the excitement that beating Australia C has gone to their heads. I mean, fair enough, they're good at stopping teams scoring points, but they have an ever so slight problem scoring enough to win most of the time.

come on stick to the script, two tackles and a kick its all he ever did

Dressed quite well too 😆

As for Scotland, I can see the excitement that beating Australia C has gone to their heads. I mean, fair enough, they're good at stopping teams scoring points, but they have an ever so slight problem scoring enough to win most of the time.

Damn - you noticed! If Robinson selects bravely and goes for the fast flair guys rather than the power backs then there is the potential. Without a stand off tho its always going to be difficult however.

I dont think Ireland work without BOD and he is one more concussion away from some real problems.

James Hook beched for Ospreys this w/e Biggar preferred at 10 and Bishop and Sonny Parker selected ahead of him in centre.

Comedy gold of the weekend could be hugo Southwell playing 9 for Stade Francais 😯

So Byrne banned in order to placate the Leicester whingers and benefit the England team, great!!

So who is going to win? Can Scotland continue their run in the calcutta cup at murrayield? Can Scotland get 3 wins?

final table - in my ever so humble opinion
France
Ireland
Scotland
Wales
England
Italy

Scotland have the best sequence of matches to give them a chance of a good series. First up France at Murrayfield. Might catch the French cold. Wales away - gonna be tough. Italy away - Italy will be targeting that for a win but Scotland should win. England at murrayfield. England will not fancy that so Scotland should win . Ireland away -another tough one.

3 wins is perfectly feasible and it might just happen.
gonna be a other close six nations I bet. France and Ireland fighting for the win but grand slams unlikely. Not a lot to chose between England Scotland and Wales. Italy - well I want them to get a win or two - but please not Scotland this time. Italy have had enough generosity from Scotland in the past.

Can you all please have a look down the back of the sofa for a Scotland qualified stand off? There must be one somewhere. We will even have Cipriani. With a name like that he must have a Scottish granddad surely?

Wales are going to struggle against Engaland with Hook at 15 trying to catch Wilkinsons bombs, he also offers nothing in terms of attack at 15. Byrne is a massive loss. I'd go with your table TJ although think england will do well if they beat wales first up

Anyone got an STW fantasy rugby leage going this year?

Signed up to the ESPNscrum one this year, seems pretty good.

I'll get a league started if its not already been done

[url] http://scrum.fantasyleague.com [/url]

I'd go with your table TJ although think england will do well if they beat Wales first up

I think you are right - England beat Wales they will do well in the rest of their matches. Lose and they will struggle all tournament. I think their confidence will be fragile but a win against Wales will make a huge difference.

Parrise injured will be a huge loss for Italy. I so want them to get a couple of wins.

France
Ireland
Scotland
Wales
England
Italy

Backhander -I am a Scotland fan. deluded? Never. No scottish rugby fan is anything but a realist 🙄

Well I think you're setting youself up for a major disappointment.

69er_Gav
That'll be great.

However, if Wales come out on top against England, they could continue on to great things. Welsh club sides have started to turn around and show some great rugby from the welsh lads. Also coming into the 6n as underdogs will benefit us hugely.

Good call on the fantasy league too. I got an email from espn the other day and forgot to sign up.

backhander, why do you think TJ deluded? England and Scotland and Wales are all much of a muchness.

I think that the scots are making far too much of the fact they scraped a win in dire conditions at home against a 3rd Australian team who were also beaten by sarries and leicester.
The loss of byrne is a biggie for wales and a shame as I enjoy watching him play.

Did the joke get missed?

Scots rugby fans are notorious for either extreme pessimism or optimism. Me - my glass is more than half full.

I do believe the 3 wins - France England and Italy are posssible - but I wouldn't bet my house on it. ( Or even a pint) It could easily be a wooden spoon for Scotland swell.

Scotland have some great assets in a mobile pack that can also scrummage well - tho Murray refusing to play on sundays will weaken the scrum a bit. A couple of really classy backs as well.

However here are also some glaring weaknesses. Lineouts have been decidedly hit and miss. No decent standoff being the most obvious but also a lack of depth in the backs. I fear for conservative selection as well with Robinson going for power over skill in the backs.

Injuries could play a real part as well. There just is not the strength in depth in some positions.

I believe England are very beatable. The forwards just don't have the speed to match the Scots - if ( and perhaps its a big if) Scotland can move the game around at speed they will get a lot of good possession and the penalty count will be high. Just watch them at the breakdown. Scotland can play effectively 5 back rows at once as several forwards have converted from back row to other positions. That should give an advantage at the breakdown while the props should ensure the scrum remains solid.

England appear to have some serious weaknesses but we will know a lot more after the first 20 mins against wales. For quite a while England have played well below their potential. Perhaps this is their year to reach their potential. Or perhaps it will remain the same leaderless team too scared of failure to try things. Borthwick is such a weakness as captain and as a penalty giving machine. IIRC England are going to have to use some fairly inexperienced props. That could go either way and Jonny Wilkinson at standoff just does not cut it in my book. Great in defense but stands too deep meaning he cannot get the backs moving.

France - leivramont should know after the experimentation of the last couple of years what the best team is but can he mould them into a team. first up must be the best chance of beating them. Some real class players.

Ireland - settled team with class players but can they rise to it again? It might be the last hurrah for this team or it might be a season too many.

Wales - are they the new France? Sublime and ridiculous mixed together. Which will we get?

Italy - missing Paraise will be hard and they are still short of a bit of class. I can't see them threatening much.

We shall see. I am really looking forward to it.

I honestly think the championship will be between France and Ireland with England Scotland and Wales really very close. I don't see this as Italys year to break thru to real contenders.

[i]I dont think Ireland work without BOD[/i]
[img] [/img]

ESPN Fantasy 6 Nations

League Name - STW

League PIN - 5171

Simply create a team then enter the PIN to join the STW league

Jonny Wilkinson at standoff just does not cut it in my book

Backhander.

Ewan Murray, Nathan hines, Barclay, Stokosch. Kellock

What has changed for the scots? Hopefully belief and continuity. They beat Aus - england did not. England were woeful in the Autumn internationals - Scotland were decent if not world beaters, There are players that will be better for another years experience.

For sure they are short of quality players but look at the calcutta cup record. 2 each the last 4 years - games going with the home team. Its about playing as a team.

Where are Englands class players? There is hardly one I'd have in the Scotland team - for a variety of reasons. Apart from Cipriani or Flood. I'd have them at 10.

Wilkinson - he has always been overhyped in my opinion - he simply lies too deep in attacka nd often goes missing from first reciever. Never the player hwee was hyped to be.

However by all accounts playing in France has rejuvenated him. We shall see.

I did say scotland could easily get a wooden spoon as well.

You are wrong about JW.
I wouldn't make much of the aus game, england played a completely different team. This was because the aussies believed that they only needed a 3rd string team to beat the scots and were very nearly correct. If the conditions hadn't been so bad i think they'd have beaten them. I didn't say you as are you are english aren't you TJ?
I may agree with stockosch though, but no others (and I'd mentioned hines).

For quite a while England have played well below their potential. Perhaps this is their year to reach their potential.

I disagree. I think that England are playing exactly at the level that
you'd expect given that they have a coach with no experience, a very poor captain who really shouldn't be in the team anyway, no world class 10 (apart from the National Hero obviously - is he fit?, is he injured?, oh please not again), and a set of backs who have forgotten how to beat a defender. Not to mention that the rest of the world has caught up and overtaken the forwards power that England used to rely on.

Once you beat England up front they have very little else, and they are very fragile mentally these days.

As somebody said, for all the teams the first game is crucial for momentum. Wales are going in with confidence. Even without Byrne, they have more than enough firepower to win at Twickenham.

I think Wales will win that game.

Scotland and Italy will be the spoilers, nothing more. Happy to win a few games and get in the way - in the best sense of the 6N. Scotland have France and England in Murrayfield, which they can win on a good day, and that may be crucial to the other sides.

France? Who knows. But at least we've got them in Cardiff. But they've only got two away games (Wales and Scotland). They must be favourites given the team(s) they can field. (Just checked, they are 6/4 favourites.)

Ireland? Hmmmmmm. Too old? I think not. Will O'Gara play, or Sexton? Whatever, they have the players to win it, but an immense amount of pressure because of the back to back thing. I think they'll buckle under the strain.

FWIW my own wish table:

1 Wales
2 Ireland
3 France
4 England
5 Scotland
6 Italy

(Disclaimer - the above table may refer to senior, U21, U16, womens, 7s, this season or for any other season in the future.)

I agree with much of idlejohns comments towards england.
Very few of the wales comments though 😀

Backhander. I am a brit of English descent who is an assimilated Scot 🙂

Been a Scotland rugby supporter since the mid 70s.

Nae point in arguing about Wilkinson. He is a player that really divides opinion. To me a great place kicker and in defence but simply does not have the sparkle and guile to put get the backs moving. Fantastic if you want to play England 2003 style but that will not win against the best teams anymore.

TJ, it pains me to admit that JW is a very competent OH - he is as good at getting the backs moving in France as he is at kicking, when he is having a good day. And that is the important thing - he is not as consistent as English fans think he is.

He's a much better OH than the others that England have got. Flood is the only one who comes close. Cipriani makes far too many mistakes, and Geraghty seems to lose confidence by the minute.

Jon - I had heard he was doing well in France. Is he getting an armchair ride behind a dominant pack or is he creating from scraps?

Maybe it will be the making of him. I think playing for Newcastle for so long did him no favours and all the injuries have been a real shame for him.

I'd still rather have cipriani or flood. Just I prefer the unpredictable and exciting element. Sort of like Townsend for Scotland was - You knew he would both create and give away tries. You just had to hope he created more than he gave away.

I agree with the comments about England playing to their level, they have very few top notch players, its hard to think of a England player who would walk into the Wales team (Armitage now Byrne is out) England and the GP are over hyped by sky. However Wales loosing Byrne also means they loose Hook at 12 which means the stodge in the centre that is Roberst and Shanlin and no fullback coming in at great angles like Byrne and we also loose command of the high balls. So whilst I think the Welsh pack will be stronger than Englands I cant see Wales bullying england to a victory at twickers.

Wales likely to be:

Hook
1/2p
Shanklin
Roberts
Williams
Jones
Cooper/Roberts
Jones
Williams
Powell
Thomas
Jones
Jones
Rees
Jenkins

So in summary, not enough Jones'

More of an armchair when I've seen him, TJ. I don't think he'll get that from England at the mo.

Personally I think Cips is truly terrible - I'd hate to see him play for my own team (Ospreys). For all those inspired moves, he can really put his team into trouble. I think Geraghty would fit in to the Welsh way of playing. Flood is just boringly competent, which isn't a bad thing.

None of them are particularly good under pressure though.

Scotland need to get back to the 'slow march out of the tunnel' days. Perhaps with success of Edinburgh and Glasgow this season they might be getting there, and Robinson is nobody's fool.

What about Biggar A_A?

If he fits in to the starting 15, Steve Jones can play 12 or 15?

You get the feel of "almost there" from Scotland but I am tired of "gallant defeats" The lack of a decent standoff is costing dear. Couple of youngsters coming thru but they are not ready yet. Why have Scotland got about 6 real good back row players and 6 scrum halves but no standoff?

I fear Robinson is going to be too conservative - I didn't want him as coach. the players seem to really like him tho. I'd like to see some innovative tactics to get round the standoff problem but I don' think he is the man for that.

Steve Jones can play 12 or 15

You are clive woodward and I claim my £1 book token finders fee.

Christ no, on all counts. I would honestly prefer to see Hook play ten than start Biggar, he will be a fine international but not yet. Wouldnt be in the lads best interests.

Been there and seen it with Wales, TJ. It's not nice.

Having said that, at the mo England are making exactly the same mistakes that Wales made 10 years ago. Sacking coaches, buying in League 'talent', southern hemisphere players, etc. At some point they'll abandon their premiership teams and form regional sides and then realise that nobody watches regions.....

A_A, I'd agree, just curious what you thought. Good player for the future. Now, how about Shane at 15? 😀

Will someone please trade Scotland a standoff for a scrumhalf? I know many international sides don't have 9s of the quality Scotland has. I'd even let cussitor go as we have a Laidlaw coming thru. Pleese. I'll chuck in a back rower as well.

1/2p at 15 with Tom James and Williams on the wings, Roberts and Hook in the centres would be fun. Wont happen with Gatwards but it would be worth seeing (and if you replaced Hook with an onform Henson I'd be needing a lie down and clean pants!!!)

Struggled for about 15 minutes with team names. Had several ideas involving Alfie and closets or scarlets underdevelopment squads but ended up with the marvelous, and rather 'safe' collection of players who go by the name of...

[b]Shane Williams and Some Other Blokes[/b]
[img] [/img]

Stade Incompétent

FR R Ford
FR G Jenkins
FR M Cas'giovanni
SR A Kellock
SR P O'Connell
BR T Dusautoir
BR M Williams
BR R Jones
SH JB Elissalde
FH R O'Gara
C B O'Driscoll
C M Bastareaud
OB T Bowe
OB T Evans
OB M Cueto

[i]I'd like to see some innovative tactics to get round the standoff problem [/i]

Play Paterson at 10 until Jackson or Hutton or whoever is good enough. Chris is the best goalkicker in the world, and has put a bit extra pace into his game recently.

I dont expect to see Paterson start any of the games. Looks likely that Godman will get the nod which is unfortunate.

Stampy Stringer in anyones team 😯 i just let some wee out guffaw!!!

G Jenkins
L Mears
D Szarzewski
AW Jones
P O'Connell
I Harinordoquy
S Ferris
L Moody
T O'Leary
J Wilkinson
J Roberts
B O'Driscoll
T Evans
C Poitrenaud
U Monye
Unsure about Monye, may change to shaun w.
Also, I'm not up to date with regards to form which I blame on the woeful coverage of rugby we get on the telly here in england. Maybe I should read more. Tempted to put some more frenchmen in the side, ouedrago(sp)etc, very good players should be maturing nicely.
I see that dan ward smith has made the england team as cover. I really hope he gets a chance, hes a great bloke and a fearsome player.

Jesus boys, I've been entertained enough with your Wales selection fights, don't start making fantasy teams...we'll be here all night!

I think Godman will get the nod too unfortunately, though one bad game and Parks will be in. I don't agree with it, but I can see it happening.

I predict Godman for the France game then parks for the rest. Paterson will likely be brought on to save us when dodgy Dan screws up.

Scarlet pimpernels

D Szarzewski (FRA)
A Jones (WAL)
G Jenkins (WAL)
P O'Connell (IRE)
S Borthwick (ENG)
Ma Bergamasco (ITA)
T Dusautoir (FRA)
J Heaslip (IRE)
M Parra (FRA)
J Wilkinson (ENG)
J Roberts (WAL)
B O'Driscoll (IRE)
T Bowe (IRE)
L Halfpenny (WAL)
D Armitage (ENG)

Oh God now we have a week to go and everything is being ratcheted up, just read that gimp Guscot and he says Wales are weak mentally, my stomach is churning and I feel sick. Dont know about the team I am weak mentally it gets worse every year. My old man god bless him was not allowed to watch internationals due to his heart condition. I think I am going the same way.

Going to see the Under 20's at Gloucester on Friday night.

England: D Armitage (London Irish); M Cueto (Sale Sharks), M Tait (Sale Sharks), R Flutey (Brive), U Monye (Harlequins); J Wilkinson (Toulon), D Care (Harlequins); T Payne (Wasps), D Hartley (Northampton), D Wilson (Bath), S Shaw (Wasps), S Borthwick (Saracens, capt), J Haskell (Stade Francais), L Moody (Leicester), N Easter (Harlequins).
Replacements: S Thompson (Brive), D Cole (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), S Armitage (London Irish), P Hodgson (London Irish), T Flood (Leicester), B Foden (Northampton).

Will be odd to thing to see but if Byrnes appeal fails, England have the more attack minded backs with Wales having the edge up front and two big boshers in midfield.

Who is there on the pitch tothump Tait backwards this time?
[url=

tire of watching this![/url]

[url=

then there's one as well....There's lovely for you....[/url]

Saturday is a must win game. Lose at the Cabbage Patch and we may as well kiss goodbye to any and all hope of a championship win, or even anything above a third place finish. If the appeal fails, we simply move Hook to 15, where he's looked very good of late, and then have Wellies Jones or Biggar in at 10. Nice thing about that is, it gives a lot of versatility in the backs.

The only problem with the Henson handbag clip is the sight of a certain Haldane Luscombe in a wales shirt. Dont think Tait will get much change out of Roberts and Shanklin unless England can manage to get him on the outside

Roberts v Tait...ouch!Not sure about how mobile the England pack will be either.

Not sure about how mobile the England pack will be either.

I like Shaw, But age is finally starting to catch up with him,he is not the player from SA last year.Even Hartley is looking a lot less dynamic this year.A lot of work for Moody I think( which will suit him fine.)Jenkins, jings that boy is like a bigger Tom Smith.I once had the misfortune of playing against him in the Midlands sevens about 15 years ago.It was like trying to tackle a pallet of bricks.He was playing on the bloody wing for a prem 2 side in a sevens tournament.

Scotland:
Paterson;
S Lamont,
M Evans,
Morrison,
T Evans;
Godman,
Cusiter (capt);
Dickinson,
Ford,
Lowe,
Kellock,
Hines,
K Brown,
Beattie,
Barclay.
Replacements:
S Lawson,
Jacobsen,
Gray,
MacDonald,
R Lawson,
Grove,
Southwell.

😯 Well thats a surprise and a good one. Robinson with adventurous picks? No place for desperate Dan?

Is that the fastest team position for position in the 6N?

My spirits have risen and the championship is on.

Edit. If you think Jenkins the prop is fast wait until you see dickinson. The fastest Prop in the world. Scotland will rule the breakdown! @cos as well as a good back row the whole pack are fast.

TJ, Gethin's fast as you like, but he has the benefit of having a real back row playing with him...

😉

Oooooooh hark at her? saucer of cream for CFH.

I wish that the stats were available for all players 40 m time. I think it would be interesting.

Scotland are weakened for the lack of Strokosch but Brown Beattie and Barclay are not poor players. We do also sneak in an extra back row in Ford :-)( even if he is a hobbit)

Is Dickinson the fella who got yellow carded with ten seconds of coming on for his debut?

I’m still disgusted with the amount of Kiwis playing for England especially one that has represented NZ in League and Fluety who lets face it is a carpet bagger who spent barely enough time in the country to qualify and then departed to France for a bigger payday. How is he English in any sense of the word?

I know other countries have selected people using the these rules but England have double the number of senior players of the other 5 nations put together.

AA - I think that was Cross? Took out a Welshman under a high ball? Injured himself and got a yellow?

On the Kiwis. I believe the rules need tightening up. There has been a few "kilted Kiwis" over the time I have followed Rugby. Some such as Lineen have clearly made their home in Scotland. Some such as the Leslie brothers came to Scotland to play club rugby ( and played for a while) and then were selected for Scotland international side. They did not come to play international Rugby. However they did **** orf again PDQ after they finished playing. Some are pure mercenaries who couldn't get a game for NZ and came here to play international Rugby. Not on IMO

I would only allow those who make the country their home play. I'd have a three fold qualifying. Scots parent plus residence for a year, or a grandparent plus residence for a couple of years or residence for 5 years.

I want to see a commitment to the country before they can play for it.

Which bridge did you find Backhander under? 🙄

I'm off to Murrayfield this weekend, usual mixture of hope/apprehension that won't be calmed until kick off on Sunday. Taking a frenchman with us too, could be a mistake... The great thing about the French is that you never know which team will turn up, the one full of flair and invention or the one trying desperately to implode. I'm hoping for the latter!

Yeah, it was Geoff Cross who was carded.

All the countries have benefited from 'foreigners' playing under dodgy residency rules, Ireland less than the others maybe? It annoys me when it is as cynically done as Flutey though.

Wales can't complain too much though - wasn't it Shane Howarth who didn't know he was Welsh until Graham Henry rang him and told him?

The Beard - Member

Which bridge did you find Backhander under?

who the **** are you? wind your neck in gobby.
I think I'm going to enjoy watching that game a lot more than you are.

IdleJon, I think one of the differences is that many of those who ahve gone before haven't played sport for anyone else before. This league convert, Haype (?spl?) has been capped as a New Zealand rugby legaue player. He has played representative sport at full international level for a country, and then changed to another as and when it suited.

Take someone like Brent Cockbain. An Aussie. Never played for them though, and moved to live in Wales. Married a Welsh lass. Had Welsh kids. Played for a Welsh club and was a very proud member of the Welsh team. Key thing is, never played international sport for anyone else.

Another example - John Eales and Martin Johnson. Both played schoolboy level for New Zealand. They then "came home" and played for their country, which is just fine.

CFH - I would say to leave England to it, though, as Flutey is nothing special and Shontayne Hape again looks very average on the occasions I've seen him.

I said a few days ago that Wales made these mistakes years ago, it amuses me hugely to watch England do the same.

wasn't it Shane Howarth who didn't know he was Welsh until Graham Henry rang him and told him?

and then he found out years later he didnt have any welsh ancestory, something like his grandmother wasnt sure who was the father.

Cross that was the fella bloody funny it was.

Byrne appeal being heard as we speak, be prepared for me venting if it doesnt go as I hope!!

Lads there are a few Irish players in those Fantasy teams who might not be the best choices. Ferris is injured for at least one game and Stringer is dropped out of the squad and likely to stay that way.

Hartley is also likely to feature ahead of Fat Tommo/Mears, O'Gara may well be dropped when Sexton regains fitness, and one of the Scottish props, Murray I think, won't play Sundays so will miss at last 1 game. Also heard a rumour Gethin Jenkins is injured but haven't seen any press.