[Closed] 6 nations thread, let the arguments commence

maxray - Member

to a team of professionals with far less resources and a relatively minuscule player-pool.

Getting your excuses in. If Ireland had played like throughout they would have won the 6 nations.

Talking about player numbers, resources or funding isn't an excuse, it's a reality.

England massively underperform every year if you consider how the player base they have (Number Of Registered Players:
2549196) compares to Ireland for example (Number Of Registered Players:
153080) or Wales (Number Of Registered Players:50557) or even NZ (Number Of Registered Players:137835).

So England have over 2million players compared to 50,000 Welsh players. Why don't England absolutely annihilate Wales every single time, and amusingly why do they need Kiwis and Saffers filling up the national team?

Add in the huge amount of money in the English game, the blanket coverage by the [i]national[/i] press (were Ireland playing this weekend? Not if you read some newspapers.), the fact that the BBC can only address a question if it involves an English team and you are getting close to the reasons why non-English supporters love beating the English.

so plenty of money, support and players won't get you the best team, but it makes you ripe for contempt? fair enough if it's done in jest and done to wind people up, but if there's vitriol behind it... then that's just petty.

England massively underperform every year if you consider how the player base they have (Number Of Registered Players:
2549196) compares to Ireland for example (Number Of Registered Players:
153080) or Wales (Number Of Registered Players:50557) or even NZ (Number Of Registered Players:137835).

Exactly what you'd exepect to hear from a sore loser. Shit excuse.
NZ have less players than most and are consistently one of the strongest teams on the planet. NEXT

brakes - Member
so plenty of money, support and players won't get you the best team, but it makes you ripe for contempt? fair enough if it's done in jest and done to wind people up, but if there's vitriol behind it... then that's just petty.

Contempt? I'm sure the Welsh/Irish/Scottish teams respect the English team as much as they deserve. The fans all drink together. Not sure where you are going with that.

BUT, thinking about it - the media started talking about an English slam after the Welsh game. Indeed last weekend, it was a certainty - before they'd even played Scotland. The contempt maybe comes from the English? Justifying the amusement WE get from seeing rich big brother fail?

Vitriol? Are you serious?

backhander, sorry I must have confused you because there was no reference to Godlike Jonny W in my earlier post. I do apologise.

as you say Ireland have beaten Eng a lot recently

Ireland beat England a lot because they are strong where england are strong in the front 5 and backrow (scrumaging apart as the irish are often weak in the scrum). Wales beat England less because england can bully wales upfront but that doesnt work against ireland.

NZ have less players than most and are consistently one of the strongest teams on the planet. NEXT

thats like comparing apples with pears, rugby is THE only sport in New Zealand that matters so they get all the best sportsmen

anwayteam of the tournament?

1. Mas
2. Hartley
3. Domingo
4. O'Connell
5. Nallet
6. Harry Ordinary
7. Warburton
8. Parisse

9. Para
10. Dont know
11. Clerc??
12. Lamont
13. O'Driscol
14. Bowe
15. Foden

as long as it's banter IdleJon, then that's fair enough 🙂 I just don't like how England is often derided and doesn't stick up for itself for fear of having an opinion rather than sitting on the fence.
I can see what you mean about the BBC coverage, they seemed a bit more balanced with the Ireland match yesterday until Brian Moore opened his stupid fatuous mouth.

In othernews who did Shaun Edwards have a fight with?

anwayteam of the tournament?

1. Mas
2. Hartley
3. Domingo
4. O'Connell
5. Nallet
6. Harry Ordinary
7. Warburton
8. Parisse

9. Para
10. Dont know
11. Clerc??
12. Lamont
13. O'Driscol
14. Bowe
15. Foden

I though Chris Patterson played well for Scotland, barely missed a kick, and made at least 2 excellent try saving tackles... the one against England was notable

[i]anagallis_arvensis - Member
In othernews who did Shaun Edwards have a fight with? [/i]

The team psycho according to planetrugby's forum. 😆

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=msg&th=220031&start=0&

I though Chris Patterson played well for Scotland, barely missed a kick, and made at least 2 excellent try saving tackles... the one against England was notable

But he's still not good enough to displace any of the team that a_a posted.

He is a bit of an enigma to me. If he couldn't kick so well, would he be in the Scottish team?

Paterson is shit his kicking isnt even that good from any distance.

[i]brakes - Member
as long as it's banter IdleJon, then that's fair enough
[/i]

Too many English people in my family to be too horrible to them, brakes... 😉

(It's just a cross we have to bear I suppose. Living in a verdant mountain bike paradise, riding straight from my door onto proper hills. A decent rugby team 5 minutes away. Beautiful sandy beaches, trout leaping from the streams, fantastic brewery up the road. No wonder the English try to get green cards..... 😆

Well, it's not raining today. And I may be lying about the rugby team seeing as it's the Ospreys.)

Patterson is au underrated player - he is faster than folk think,good tackler, elusive runner with the ball in hand. I don't think Foden has looked that good in the last couple of matches

Gray has to get a place in a team of the tournament

Gray and Davies will make a wonderful Lions pairing in time but I dont think either are good enough yet, Gray catches the eye but has he enough grunt?

and Patterson is shit, sorry, whilst he may be one of Scotchlands best backs he wouldnt get in any other 6 nations team apart from maybe Italy for his kicking. Masi looks a better fullback.

I just had a look at the first page of this thread - lots of predictions, none correct that I could see

England - improveda dn generally more consistent. Badly missed Croft and Lawes, need some pace in the back row and a centre with some skill
Worthy winners of the 6N, not good enough fora grand slam, nothing to scare the southern hemisphere teams 7/10

France - I though Leiveremnent was using all those players in preparation so he knew all the best combinations and had 2 players for every position. Instead it look like he hasn't got a clue. France end up much less effective than they should be 5/10

Ireland - aging team able to pull off a performance when needed. Lucky to end with 3 wins. Who coated Darcys hands with grease? couldn't hold a pass all tournament. 5/10

Wales - looked directionless and weak in some areas. Better performance that I expected. 5/10

Scotland - a major disappointment. I thought we finally had a team to do something - not the greatest back line but the forwards should be able to win lots of ball and dominate games. Instead the set piece crumbled and teh whole team was simply not good enough. No hunger from some players. Unlucky only to have one win but hardly deserved more 4/10

Italy - was this the season they came of age? Only one real beating and unlucky to only get one win - but what a win it was!
6/10 simply for the improvement and beating France

I didn't see the problem with Moore, especially yesterday. He's brutally honest. Maybe that's what some people don't like. I'm happy to accept he's an England fan. I couldn't bear to watch the Irish national broadcaster's coverage. It's embarrassingly one-eyed.

All the former players-turned-pundits are biased, only to be expected. I like Moore's commentary and i can listen to jiffy explain the plays etc til the cows come home, what he doesn't know about the game isn't worth knowing i would say.

I enjoyed this,see you all next year.

I think TJ's last post is the only one I've agreed with 😉

Team of the tournament was Italy for sure. Brilliant improvement and by far the most energy and commitment I reckon. Made all 5 games a challenge and good to watch, instead of merely being guaranteed wooden spoon insurance.

We despair. I have no idea why

DD, it's the Celtic mindset 🙂

😮

[IMG] [/IMG]

Ooh look. Its got a nice rose on the top 🙂

Weighs a fair bit.

New IRB rankings nuts!
(but funny)
😀

8)

[IMG] [/IMG]

It begs for a punchline but I'm being nice today.

Well played Ireland on Saturday, they really brought an intensity to the match that blew England away. Worthy winners on the day.
It was a disappointing performance from England, gutted really, overall championship win not much consolation after giving up the Grandslam with such a whimper.

Are you licking that tawdry trophy chunky?

TandemJeremy - Member
Are you licking that tawdry trophy chunky?

Almost... I got told off for a finger print. 😐

Miserable buggers.

who was it that played rugby down rose street with the it ( or was it the Calcutta cup)?

the almost priceless Calcutta Cup itself came in for some rough treatment as Scotland's John Jeffrey and England's Dean Richards (a policeman in the real world) kicked the 110-year-old trophy down Edinburgh's Princes Street.

"When we took it away it wasn't damaged and when we brought it back it was," a groggy Jeffrey admitted. "I have to say we were responsible."

Dean Richards and John Jeffrey? Calcutta cup.

Congrats to the U20's too, some real talent coming through the system now.

[IMG] [/IMG]

women as well IIRC - they got a grand slam did they not? Better than the men

Yep, they showed the men how it is done. Trophy is on it's way down the office. Pic to follow 😮

Tawdry bits of tin. Who cares.

Those people that work hard in the game I guess.

Its only sour grapes from me. I'm still disappointed how poor Scotland were. 2000 was the last time Scotland won owt IIRC

You won though - you're from further south than me! 😉

And I'm half Irish!

just watched a highlights prog of the last three games, the England and Welsh yellow cards were utter and complete jokes, shocking decisions 👿

TandemJeremy - Member
Its only sour grapes from me. I'm still disappointed how poor Scotland were. 2000 was the last time Scotland won owt IIRC

TJ, don't be too depressed. IMO, and my opinion only probably, there was very little to choose between any of the 6N teams.

Forward pass here, shocking yellow card there, home advantage, crap refs (even Jiffy was complaining about SH refs on ScrumV). The difference between Wales (for instance) winning the 6N and coming 4th was 6 tries*

Now, I wouldn't expect Italy to win the 6N, but they came close enough to beating more teams than just France. Scotland similarly lost games they could/should have won. A different ref, or even a slightly different 'interpretation' of the lawbook and Scotland may have beaten England, Ireland may have beaten Wales, and so on.

All credit to England. They almost won a GS and deserved to win the 6N. Just. But at the end of the competition there weren't many teams holding their heads high.

England were worse at the end than the start.
Ireland were far better but why couldn't they find that form weeks ago?
Wales look so badly set up it's hard to believe that they'll get out of the group stages of the WC.
Scotland keep looking as if the can take the next step. But then select Dan Parks in the next game.
Italy - most improved? Probably.
France. trying out the Welsh Improvement and Disaster-a-Week Management Plan. They should have been playing for the GS on Saturday, but forgot to win the week before.

* And to be fair, they were 6 tries that Wales couldn't have scored if they'd been playing against my local primary school.

A very good and accurate summary IdleJon. I thought that after the first week or 2 it was almost impossible to look at any game and confidently state a winner before the games. I much prefer it this way; competition is good for the game, the teams and the fans.

Gents...speaking as somebody who has gone over to the Dark Side....Your local refs society would love to have you.Free kit,the best seat on the pitch without anybody running into you.And you might have a bit of empathy for how hard it is....Just saying like...

Wales look so badly set up it's hard to believe that they'll get out of the group stages of the WC.

Now I have to take issue with this, the welsh lineout has been markedly improved this season, the scrum even without its two first choice props was OK. They aint going to beat Fiji and Samoa (who are effectively playing at home) by playing chuck it around beach rugby, they proved that at the last world cup. With the strong set piece and defence they have they should have enough to beat both those teams and they have become a very tough team to break down. Look at the welsh tries conceded, only two (1 from ireland and one from england) that I can think of came positive play by the opposition, most came from the welsh attack coughing up the ball.

That aging Ireland side looks to have a few miles left in it yet.

duckman - Member
Gents...speaking as somebody who has gone over to the Dark Side....Your local refs society would love to have you.Free kit,the best seat on the pitch without anybody running into you.And you might have a bit of empathy for how hard it is....Just saying like...

Posted 7 hours ago # Report-Post

I posted a long reply which seems to have completely disappeared! 😥

Anyway, I finished it by saying keep up the good work, duckman.

I'll reserve the right to call you names if you penalise my precious team too much, but the game needs people like you to do the work that lazy gits like me won't!

The full set 😮

[IMG] [/IMG]

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Wales look so badly set up it's hard to believe that they'll get out of the group stages of the WC.

Now I have to take issue with this, the welsh lineout has been markedly improved ..........

Yes, you are absolutely right, a_a, that's why it's so irritating that Wales haven't got a clue what to do with ball when they get it. That's what I mean by 'badly set-up'.

This week on ScrumV, the pundits were talking about bringing Nicky Robinson into the team at 10 to inject some life. That sums up where we are only a few months before the World Cup.

this made me laugh

[url] http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/39943/ [/url]

oh and if Nicky Robinson is the answer the question is wrong.

this made me laugh

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/39943/

that's why it's so irritating that Wales haven't got a clue what to do with ball when they get it.

wales clearly have at least two options:

1. Kick it away before they **** up and concede.
2. Chuck it to Shane.

oh and if Nicky Robinson is the answer the question is wrong.

😆

wales clearly have at least two options:

1. Kick it away before they **** up and concede.
2. Chuck it to Shane.

unfortunately that is so true...

I can see why you find this amusing

Yeah, because it's ****ing hilarious 😆

Pssst...option 2 is for a limited time only. What a genius that man was.

Chuck it to North may well be the new option, he looks like he could be very good if he learns to tackle and keeps his pace.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Chuck it to North may well be the new option, he looks like he could be very good if he learns to tackle and keeps his pace.

Ah now then, we thought the same about Jamie Roberts.

But then Roberts turned into a sort of more handsome, more intelligent Derwyn Jones. Lumbering about the field looking generally useless.

It's only now that they've wound the elastic up again that he can make 4 runs per match........

Maybe that's the problem. Welsh rugby players' elastic bands aren't strong enough. Or maybe they aren't using Duracell?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OOPPS-England-Grand-Slam-Rugby-Polo-Shirt-Size-Medium-/260755148873?pt=UK_Rugby_Shirts&hash=item3cb637d049

Well, Nicky Robinson has been in outstanding form for Gloucester recenty and was MOM in the LV Final last weekend. Is it too late to take him into the fold?

Problem is there are two Nicky Robinsons, Good Nicky and Bad Nicky and it has always been the latter who turns up for international duty.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Problem is there are two Nicky Robinsons, Good Nicky and Bad Nicky and it has always been the latter who turns up for international duty.

Or as soon as the opposition back row get to him..

That was my reading of him as well.Playing behind a dominant pack he is superb,having to scrap/eat no7...Nicky who?

That's a little unfair on this season in which Glos have played out a fair number of tight games. He probebly gets enough advice off the number 7 Gloucester legend that is Andy Hazel. He also does not mind taking the ball up himself when nothing is on.

I've only seen him play for Glos a couple of times - hopefully it's made him a harder player. He [i]could[/i] be very good...

so now we have the old he's doing well in the english league so must be good enough argument!!!

He's a decent player who has never stepped up when asked to play at international level, both Jones and Hook are far better. He is better than Dan Bighead but Dan Bighead is younger. Bit like all the southern hemisphere players who think Delve should be in the Welsh squad because he looks OK in Superdooper Wonderful Rugby.

No, but last time i looked many a player got picked for an international squad based on club form. Or isnt the English Premiership a good enough starting point compared to the oh, i don't know, the Magner's League for example?

Wasn't that long ago Toby Flood was out of his depth at international level, but has improved. How many caps does he have compared to Robinson?

Robinson and Sweeney are similar in that they do well for there clubs but fall flat on the international stage. Nicky R has done well for Gloucester but Gatland seemed to rate Biggar for some reason.

Toby Flood is what 25? Robinson must be almost if not actually 30 and has about a dozen caps, if he was oing to make an impression at international level he'd have done it by now.

Toby Flood is also a poor example as both Hook and Jones are better than him too 8)

No, but last time i looked many a player got picked for an international squad based on club form. Or isnt the English Premiership a good enough starting point compared to the oh, i don't know, the Magner's League for example?

if you look at Wales compared to England, Wales tend to identify talent and bring them on through the international set up much earlier than England (this is changing though). The ship has sailed for Nicky Robinson, which is why he went to Glos. He also played very well for Cardiff the year before he left when they got to the HEC semi final

Exactly my point. Age is not an issue and Robinson has only 12 caps, Flood was given 30 plus before he became settled.

age is an issue because wales have better and younger options

and to think we said such nice things about him!!