Just looking to buy a car to swallow 2 mountain bikes and a dog.
Wondered whether people would go 4x4 or Estate.
Plus which cars they recommend.
From some experience our Octavia had more usable room than the Forrester prefer driving a car to a 4x4 normally.
For bike duties a van wins
Used to get two bikes and a dog in a focus hatch. Now use an estate. Find there's more useable room in an estate than In a 4x4.
I kind of like my Rav for bike duties - but I think overall I'd be happier with a 4wd estate
My old estate had a lot of useable space and I prefered the driving experience to a 4x4 with a higher centre of gravity.
New MPV has less space but is taller, which can be very useful for just rolling the bikes in.
Van would have more space but again at the expense of driving experience/comfort.
Agreed - our Freelander 2 is nowhere near as good as my old Mondeo for biking. It is however much better at driving across the outback. YMMV.
I'm on my 6th estate. Not that I'd buy a 4x4 but glancing at their boot space they generally appear to have less space. Having said that the modern curved roof lines on mine does reduce the cubic capacity against the older models
Not very fashionable but very happy with my Berlingo. Easily fits two bikes in the boot without taking wheels off.
Esatate car every time. More practical as a day-to-day car, often more useable space than a 4x4, usually cheaper to run as well.
For biking duties, a van wins every time and smaller ones are quite car-like to drive. Problem is than on a day-to-day basis they're not as practical as a car and anything not secured in the back or put into bolted down crates just gets thrown all over the place.
Thanks all, was thinking 4x4 but the 'more space in an estate' feedback sounds good.
Love our Octavia Scout, over 50 to the gallon as long as you don't put the bikes on the roof 🙂
What you want is a 4x4 estate.
What you want is a 4x4 estate.
Subaru Legacy Estate?
The load space in my Nissan X-Trail isn't as big as you might think as the boot floor is quite high.
What you want is a 4x4 estate.
No clearance more tyre wear more mechanical bits to go wrong needs proper tyres to deal with snow and ice etc. Perfect not sure why the UK is 4x4 obsessed these days. It's mostly fashion
Thanks all, was thinking 4x4 but the 'more space in an estate' feedback sounds good.
Shame it's bobbins then!
It really depends on they model. Some estates seem massive to drive but you can never fit owt in properly, some 4x4s are cavernous.
My personal choice in this class would be a Honda CRV. It's like a 4x4 estate with a high driving position! Boot swallows anything and the rear seats are on rails so can be slid forwards to increase boot space.
get an estate there is loads more room than a 4x4,I had a vectra estate which I could easily get 3 bikes 3 people all our cycling gear and camping gear inside,I now have a freelander 2 and I have had to put a tow bar on and bought a bike carrier.
Yep, unless it's a big 4wd, the space needed for the much larger suspension pillars and wheel arches etc eats into useable space quite a bit. Add to that, most smaller 4wds are actually shorter than large estates such as the Mondeo.
What you want is a 4x4 estate.
No clearance more tyre wear more mechanical bits to go wrong needs proper tyres to deal with snow and ice etc. Perfect not sure why the UK is 4x4 obsessed these days. It's mostly fashion
AWD is more costly, whatever shape it comes in, there's no doubt about it - it generally comes in the top of the range big engined models too! But the only real difference between an estate and a '4x4' is the clearance, and you're only ever gonna need that if you're doing some serious off-roading. I've managed easily a foot of fresh snow on a steep (think 2nd gear), long hill in a [i]lowered[/i] AWD estate.
Whether you need one depends on where you live and where you travel to. I miss mine a lot in the winter.
There's a lot of crap written on here. A 4x4 estate makes a lot of sense. I've a diesel octavia 4x4 estate. Easy to drive, good on fuel, lots of space and makes driving on slippery roads a lot simpler. Of course if it had proper winter tyres it would be even better.
Or bikes on a rack and dog in the hatch.
Unless you actually intend to go off road then estate every time. If you're worried about the odd few days snow we get then buy some snowsocks...
Big MPV fan here. My Galaxy does everything I want from a car, eminently practical and the best distance car I've ever had.
Hmm, I've recently changed from a Suzuki Supercarry to a Land Rover Freelander. Apart from the fuel consumption, the LR wins in every way.
It doesnt take the bulkier loads that a van would, such as kitchen units, but if needed, I can put them on the roof rack. It was exactly the same internal measurement, I can just fit a 3 metre length of pipe in.
The big difference was seen this week. I didnt have any unexpected wheel slips, and even pulled stuck cars out of a pub car park last week. After such performance, I dont think I would go back to 2WD in the snow/ice now.
Not very fashionable but very happy with my Berlingo. Easily fits two bikes in the boot without taking wheels off.
Presume that's with rear seats folded down?
The big difference was seen this week. I didnt have any unexpected wheel slips
Me neither in my 2WD.
After such performance, I dont think I would go back to 2WD in the snow/ice now.
Yes because driving in snow/ice is the primary concern when choosing a car for the uk. 🙂
@Clink - yup, with wheels off you can easily get two bikes in the boot with no seats down. I think newer ones have QR so you can quickly remove the seats to get even more room.
mikewsmith - Member
No clearance more tyre wear more mechanical bits to go wrong needs proper tyres to deal with snow and ice etc. Perfect not sure why the UK is 4x4 obsessed these days. It's mostly fashion
This sums it up really. 4x4 estates seem to have been invented for the ATGNI types. The same people who ride 6 inch travel bikes round swinley forest every weekend, but they have the intention of taking it to the alps for one a week one summer in the future.
I've got a convertible Quattro, but really need to swop it for an estate and can't bring myself to get anything other then another Quattro. I just love the 4WD system, the grip and lack of wheel spin etc. it's great in the snow despite having normal tyres. As for more expense, well I've owned it since 2005 at 2 yrs old and it's been completely trouble free. ( touches wood!)
Presume that's with rear seats folded down?
I briefly had a look at a new Berlingo - the boot area is cavernous - probably as big as a car-derived van e.g. Astra van - and that's before you start messing with the seats. Looked as though it would swallow my drum kit, all the band's amps & guitars & still have room for 4 passengers. Ideal band transport I reckon
[img] http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/citroen/berlingo-multispace-2008/# [/img]
Mine is great for band gear transport john and we have done exactly as you said reasonably comfortably. New one is probably even better.
meanwhile, I'm now thinking Skoda Yeti for my next car. Possibly 4x4 version, but probably not. for the number of snow days we get I don't think the trade-off on MPG is worth it
Some current berlingos suffer with rear tyre wear than citrone are ignoring
Old mans killed the first rear pair at about 20k
Depends a bit on your pricerange, there's some good options that are relatively new and expensive.
After shopping around for a bit, went for a diesel mondeo. Boring even with 185bhp and a bollocks to park but it's massive,it's comfy, it drives better than a chelsea tractor, and it was pretty cheap.
2 bikes in the boot isn't challenging at all tbh, my Focus could do it with the back seats down and 2 complete, big bikes, seatposts up and wheels in. (not so easy to get them out again!) Not all estates are designed to actually be used for carrying things around though, your standard Octavias etc will still do the job but they waste space and usability- they're more tall saloons.
Bottom line was I wouldn't mind a 4x4, if it was the right size and the right engine but nothing really fit the bill. Closest I found was the Outback, but they didn't come cheap or economic.
people do have other reasons for wanting a 4 wheel drive (estate or 4x4) such as towing, having to drive up lots of tracks, recreational/work activities that may mean then need to venture away from roads.
Take a look a the Yeti boot before you go any futher. I really liked the look of them and then saw the boot....
Thanks all, thinking Skoda Octavian estate. Like the Yeti, but too much.
Have thought about the roof rack option but too much hassle. Just want to throw the bikes and dog in the back.
Massive help here, might look at AWD estates. Live outside of Halifax in the country so AWD diesel estate makes a lot of sense. X-trail was my 4x4 choice.
Octavia, bleeding autocorrect!
the rear seats in the Yeti can slide forward a bit, fold forward a bit more, or can be removed completely if required, so provided you have somewhere to store them, the rear seems quite versatile.
Some current berlingos suffer with rear tyre wear than citrone are ignoring
Old mans killed the first rear pair at about 20k
I think there's a mention of cause and fix for this on that HJ page
Yeti's just hold their values too well. Looking at max £6k spend.
Other reccos on estates?
Yetis haven't been around long enough to drop to £6k yet, I'd be surprised if any are < £10k.
I had a Saab 9-3 1.9TiD estate, it was rather nice. Wish I could have afforded the £600+ cambelt change + service and the 4 new tyres it needed but sadly I was skint & had to sell it. Engine had started getting a bit "lumpy" on the motorway, losing power for a moment for no obvious reason. EGR valve seemed to be ok.
Heated leather seats, satnav, CD with 3.5mm aux socket, Bluetooth phone system, the works. One of those would suit your budget
Depends where you live and what you might need a 4wd for.
Unless you like 4x4s specifically then the premium and running costs over a 2wd car are a pain in the tits.
I like 4x4s and live in rural aberdeenshire so will always have 1 x road going 4x4 in the household if i can help it !
Buying a 4x4 instead of an estate for load space is mental - doesnt matter what the vehicle is 4wd has toss load space. And tbh i wouldnt touch a limited slip or vcu 4wd system.
Buying a 4x4 instead of an estate for load space is mental - doesnt matter what the vehicle is 4wd has toss load space
Sorry TR but that is simply not right. We have an XC90 and the boot is big with the seats up but if you put the middle seats down (and they fold flat) you have a massive space that is also quite high and knocks spots off an estate (110Ltr more than a mondeo estate for example), plus you get the 7 seats and 4 wheel drive.
Unless you look at a proper size 4x4 (Nissan pathfinder, land rover discovery) then boot space will be far worse than an estate car.
the trade off also comes with running costs... A big 4x4 will be expensive to run (tyre costs alone are horrifying), poor mpg, servicing is generally more too.
As we live in Halifax there are lots of small roads and an AWD estate seems the way forward. In terms of efficiency and not going to cost me a fortune as well. Just got to decide on what I can get for £6k or under. Skoda & Ford shouts seem pretty good at the moment. Honda CRV or Nissan X-Trail make up good 4x4 options. Might be time to start searching autotrader and eBay for the bargains.
Having owned a Range Rover and a Discovery I know a little bit about 4x4s
DONT
Would love the new disco but it screams EXPENSE at me in terms of servicing and I guess issues.
Any newish land/range rover would horrify you in service and repair!
Mondeo and xc90 hardly comparible what about a 7 seater mpv - which is what the xc90 appears to be.
What you have done is compare apples and bananas - then come up with pears that cost more than ops price range.
4x4s generally have bigger wheel boxes ad high boot floors to let the axel and diff live under on your big tires
Had a 1991 Range rover 2.5 TD from 1995 to 2005. If I could find one similar in good nick that would be my choice or a SWB Landy.
The Disco a nice gas guzzling 4.0 V8 could get anything up to 22 mpg and as low as 9 mpg. Nice ride but I dare not tell you the cost of some of the repairs it had.
Well go on
Ignition modules and leads £800
Suspension, self leveling ACE, another £700
Shall I go on ?
XC90 is nothing more than a poor man's chelsea tractor.
trail_rat - MemberMondeo and xc90 hardly comparible what about a 7 seater mpv - which is what the xc90 appears to be.
It's not totally outrageous tbh, the footprint is pretty comparable, XC90 is either a car-like MPV or an MPV-like estate. But yep, big price premium, you could get 2 decent mondeos for the price of the cheapest XC90 on autotrader. Not quick, either, if you care- lots of metal to shift.
Have you thought of a VW Tiguan?
Drives like a Golf but has all the advantages of a 4x4. You can get in 2wd which instead of 40mpg gives 50 mpg.
Did someone recommend a freelander earlier? FA boot space.
It's not hard. A 4x4 has bulky, heavy, additional mechanics. Ground clearance means its tall without tall interior space. Height plus weight means fuel economy will be poor.
Estate for same/more space with better handling and economy. People carrier for more vert height In load space.
Personally I've always thought 4x4 on an estate makes a lot of sense if you live in the middle of nowhere and need something to deal with snowy roads or the odd muddy field. Euro Ski resorts used to be full of them.
A lot depends on a persons mileage
My partners defender only does about 6000 miles a year
So tyre cost and fuel are not to bad.
But I'd not want the cost of one for higher mileage use
Just a little comparison
Good tyres for my little car £90-120 each and last about 15-30k
Good tyres for the landrover are also about 90-120
All the advantages of a 4x4 without being a 4x4 . Go on then enlighten me ? Does magic cause them to get traction like a 4x4 ?
Always thought a 2wd car that looks like a 4x4 is just a stupid move really.
[url= http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/volkswagen-passat-deisel-estate-new-timing-belt-fitted/1004161924#gallery-item-full-1 ]THIS[/url]
Just had the timing belt changed (needs done every 60k) and has new tyres and brakes. And a tow bar for under £2,000 😀
I've one very like this with 160k on the clock and it runs like a dream. Loads of space for 3 bikes, kit and and mates. Enough poke and a nice relaxed drive.
Only downsides are light envy (they're not as bright as more modern cars) and the tyres can come off the rims if you drive it like a rally car 😀
[img] 
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Hmm... With that spec and that many miles, if it had a blue oval on it it'd cost far less (and have a better boot)
You're probably right about that, but i've seen Fords with far less mileage than mine that look ratty. When I wash the bus - maybe twice a year - it comes up like new.
Mondeo and xc90 hardly comparible what about a 7 seater mpv - which is what the xc90 appears to be.What you have done is compare apples and bananas - then come up with pears that cost more than ops price range.
You said that all 4x4 have small carrying capacity - I just pointed out that you were wrong. Fruit never came into the equation.
I never said that a 4x4 would be better for the OP - oh and by the way you can get an XC90 in the OP budget as my mate is just selling his.
One vehicle to consider is a Galaxy/Sharon/Alhambra
The only vehicle I have owned that fits 4 people and 4 bikes with the wheels still on.
Aye well some folks definition of 4x4 are different to others
4x4 and faux x faux
For £6k you could buy two cars. Get a small cheap to run everyday hatch and also an older 4x4, for those days when you need one.
OK, sorry I thought 4x4 meant 4 wheel drive.
2wd or 4wd all the same when its slippy.
[img] 
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Yeah dales rider especially those with only winter tires on the front.
Xc90 would fall under 4x4 estate surely . V70 awd on stilts
Maybe.
Estate. More room, better economy, better driving and dogs can still get in the back as they age. Ok, being a little provocative there, but the final point is v real. Have a number of friends who have found getting dogs up into e back of their 4x4s a real pain and in some cases switched back to estates.
trail_rat - MemberYeah dales rider especially those with only winter tires on the front.
That would never work, what idiot would attempt that you'd not get more that a few miles in snow before you crashed.
pick up truck? can get 5 bikes and riders plus a full weekend away kit and tents in the truck. All comfy and heated leather chairs, all mod cons, can jet wash the back out to keep it clean. Low to mid 30's on the mpg.
less road noise than my 57 plate modeo titanium x, more space, much cheaper company car tax. can't see me going back to an estate again.
Dales Rider, that photo is in bad taste if you are aware of the circumstances behind it.
It's not hard. A 4x4 has bulky, heavy, additional mechanics. Ground clearance means its tall without tall interior space. Height plus weight means fuel economy will be poor.Estate for same/more space with better handling and economy. People carrier for more vert height In load space.
Personally I've always thought 4x4 on an estate makes a lot of sense if you live in the middle of nowhere and need something to deal with snowy roads or the odd muddy field. Euro Ski resorts used to be full of them.
What, like this one? This is an unmarked police Octy 4x4 estate. Personally, I would have thought it has all the advantages, and few disadvantages. Stick a set of winter tyres on, and Robert's your mother's brother. 😀
[img] 
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[url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stennybusman/ ]steviebusman[/url], on Flickr
CountZero - Memberand few disadvantages.
Still not a very good estate, though. Not for serious stuff-hauling anyway.
Estate just seems to make sense. Had a quick look online and there are lots of decent priced Mondeo Estates, Skoda Octavias seem a bit more. Will keep looking, like the idea of a Galaxy/Sharon but could not bring myself to own a van/car cross. An estate is pushing it.
[url=/classified/advert/201301124896245/sort/default/usedcars/price-from/5000/price-to/6000/body-type/estate/model/a6/make/audi/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/sy25db/page/2/radius/1500?logcode=p]nice big 4wd estate for 6k[/url]
We have an XC90 and the boot is big with the seats up but if you put the middle seats down (and they fold flat) you have a massive space that is also quite high and knocks spots off an estate (110Ltr more than a mondeo estate for example), plus you get the 7 seats and 4 wheel drive.
i had a rucsack that had 110L capacity for a while.
van, unless you actually need 4 seats, in which case get a van with 4 or more seats - an MPV. unless you're towing horse trailers across fields or something four wheel drive is superfluous for most driving conditions in this country. or otherwise see 'winter tyres' thread...
Had an estate for years.. just got an L200 4x4 pickup.. The separate area for dog/gear is a godsend. No more mess, no more smells. I love it.
Tiptop,
Consider the Pug 3008?, my wife has had one for 12 months and it is the most versatile and best car I have ever driven, its also huuuuuge! inside. Seats fall flat, including the passenger seat just by flipping a lever and the boot drops to the floor and can be split into 2 compartments.
You could probably pick one up for about 8k or just passport one form somewhere like Arnold Clark.
Put it this way, I have a 37k V60 parked on my drive that goes no where on a weekend, I simply cant keep out of the bus!.
Brill review here:
For the 2wd point grew up in rural Northumberland and lived in the lakes with only 2wd. I was beaten by floods but then everyone was.
Stuck by snow when it drifted too high.
After that if the roads were open and safe I could get round.
I remember heading North in the van through Wigan when everything froze van pulling away and driving with some common sense was fine. 4x4 s with road tyres getting nowhere. Unless you have a life or death reason for trecking out in the uk arctic conditions then stop at home and chill out. If is life or death they come to you. The quality of UK roads is good enough for most cars.
Anyway find a nice big estate in diesel and have some cash.
in diesel
if you do > 15k miles a year, or regular long journeys. Short stop/start journeys not so good in a [i]modern[/i] diesel. DPF and all that
Thanks all, loving the Pug shout. Close mate is a car salesman at Arnold Clark so could get a deal there as well!
ave you thought of a VW Tiguan?
Drives like a Golf but has all the advantages of a 4x4.
🙄
Op for where you live:
Rav
Jimny tow bar mounted rack
Forester