[Closed] 4 x 4 f*+ckwits

breakneckspeed - Member
Bloke in the Ranger Rover that ploughed in the back of the car killing 2 – was drunk, had taken drug, was on the phone and reputably committing a sexual act whilst driving at over 100mph – using that incident as an exemplar of how safe 4x4 are speaks volumes about the sort of people who drive such vehicles
As I recall they tend to do very badly in the ENCAP rating for both passenger and pedestrian safety
Farms & grouse moors are the best place for them

You're taking what I said out of context here. I'm not using this as an advert for 4x4 safety. I was completely shocked when I heard this. That family have been devastated. It's one of the things that made me think "what if it happened to me?" so under the circumstances I decided it would be [i]safer[/i] to have this type of car to protect my family. We don't drive around drunk in it with reckless abandon safe in the knowledge that it's indestructable and we could never be hurt. It's not a battering ram, it's just a car.

Exactly my point – it just a car – it is no safer then any other and in certain situations can be more dangerous to both the occupants and those outside of it.
I have no axe to grind with people who genuinely and regularly use four wheel drive eg farmers

[i]That's extremely unlikely. They're strapped in and can't get out and if this happened in any other car the damage could be just as bad. Daft statement really.
[/i]

Not that unlikely. I've seen umpteen examples of women on the school run turning round to shout at kids in the backseat (in all types of car to be fair). There's got to be a good chance that a small percentage of them will at some point run into the back of another car, and in that case the damage is far more likely to be greater in a 4x4 for the simple reason they are so much heavier. So not a daft statement at all I'd suggest. No-one is suggesting the safety of your family shouldn't be a priority, the problem is many 4x4 drivers are quite willing to risk other families being destroyed to protect their own.

[i]I've recruited another **** to the cause. He never saw the point of a 4x4. An hour cross country in mine today and he's buying one at the weekend. He couldn't believe what it was capable of. [/i]

So when do you actually need, and I do mean "need" to go off-road? As far as I understand all that hour you spent off-road will have achieved is to destroy some countryside. And yes, I do realise you can accuse mountain bikers, and indeed walkers, of doing the same, but not to anywhere even close to the same level.

To be fair I'm from near Huddersfield and have driven a 2WD car around that area during a snowy period a few years ago and yes it was complete arse so I can see why a person would go for a 4x4 over there (small roads and lumpy terrain). Sure a 2WD is ok but I can see a 4x4 being much easier.

I went out to buy a new shape Mondeo estate as my next car, it's huge on the outside but inside the front seats felt really cramped and although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.

We then had a look at an X-trail and the space inside was amazing considering it's not that big'a car. Front was nice, spacious and really comfy.

I also go off road a fair bit (I live in the country). It's a great car (sorry).

I think some of the posters have confirmed the OP's point

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

[IMG] [/IMG]

My point about Huddersfield (and okay, I was being cheeky) was to do with the statement [i]"Over two winters its proved invaluable for getting around and to see various family"[/i].

If we assume winter to be 3 months, let's say 90 days, that's 180 days in two years. On how many of those days has it been necessary for the average person in Huddersfield to have a 4x4 (the poster used the word "invaluable") to get about to visit family?

I've looked inside a few 4x4s and to be honest I don't see that they are really any more spacious than a decent sized family estate. And in a lot of them the luggage carrying capacity is pretty poor. I have a Mazda 6 saloon that can take two full sized mountain bikes inside with the wheels still on and also a load of kit bags.

Perhaps a balanced viewpoint from me (unusually?).

I had to have an Isuzu Trooper (commercial) with M+S tyres for my work in pretty nasty conditions. I did almost 100k in it and in retrospect had a love hate relationship with it.

The good (as others have mentioned) was that it's great to get going in poor conditions - except in reverse when some clever freehub thing disengaged the 4wd. And the higher viewpoint. And the loadspace. And towing trailers.

The bad is that it took longer to stop in all conditions (heavier, higher centre of gravity) than a normal car. The high c.o.g. also meant that it cornered worse than a normal car. And the insurance. And the fuel bill. And the depreciation. And the tyre wear. And servicing.

On balance I found that I felt it was more dangerous to occupants (me) than a car due to the increased risk of accident in 'normal' conditions. I think I drove accordingly. Some 4x4 drivers are undoubtably idiots. As are some 2wd drivers, but their cars arent so heavy / tall so other road users dont get so nervous.

Unless I need to do serious off roading again I'd not get another 4x4. M+S (or proper winter) tyres rock though.

That's why God invented tarmac so that 4x4's wouldn't be needed 99.9% of the time!

That's why God invented tarmac so that 4x4's wouldn't be needed 99.9% of the time!

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

i need that!

Imagine driving round in this 4x4.....

i need that!

Looks better in
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You don't need a cock 99% of the time. You'd miss it though.

And its been argued that only cocks have 4x4's therefore if you have a cock you must need a 4x4 🙂 I have both 😀

couldashouldawoulda............probably the most balanced thing I've read on this whole thread so far.

4x4s ace everyone should have one. 🙂
Those who moan about them probabley shite drivers anyway, or were bullied at school by bigger kids and are still having flash backs. 😕
Probably the same peeps that get in the way on single tracks at trail centres.

I once ran over a little fluffy bunny in my Landrover, will I still goto heaven?

Can somebody just explain to me exactly why 4x4s are so invaluable for getting around in when conditions are like this? I've not got stuck in my 2WD, have got up and down steepish hills which other people seem to think are impassable, and have sat behind 4x4s going slower than I'd be happy with a couple of times. What's more I regularly park in fields and drive along forest roads to get to events (far more off-roading than the average 4x4), and the only time I've ever got stuck even the 4x4s needed a tractor to pull them out.

The thing is it's quite clear to me that at least round here you don't need a 4x4 even during extreme weather (yes we have had snow, and yes we have lots of untreated back lanes I'm using and plenty of hills), so when do you need one exactly?

The thing is it's quite clear to me that at least round here you don't need a 4x4 even during extreme weather (yes we have had snow, and yes we have lots of untreated back lanes I'm using and plenty of hills), so when do you need one exactly?

spanishbarry - Member

I love my 4x4

Yup, i love yours too.

"mrmichaelwright - Member
i've had the opposite, driving over the snake pass before christmas i was constantly held up by timid drivers in 4x4s driving too slowly.

in a 2wd car they need to understand that momentum is my friend and when they stop on an uphill corner or mince downhill i'm going to get stuck or smash into the back of them"

So why not keep yer distance and learn to control a car downhill without even going near the brakes? you should be able to take a car down from 70mph-5mph or thereabouts without braking in the snow.

go out and have a play around with throttle blipping until you get it so smooth folk hardly know yer changing gear.

I reckon my Lancruiser (Prado over here) is pretty essential. The bloody great bull bar on the front is pretty useful for deflecting the wildlife when i'm out bush for work, and by wildlife read Emu's, FO big Kangaroos and cattle... It's also useful to have a 2000km fuel tank when is 2 hours+ between towns and there is no guarantee that the servo will be open when you get there.

Also handy for trips onto the beach and general hooning around on dirt roads in the hills :)... not much snow here mind you!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7245850@N06/3438012488/in/set-72157616703479258?edited=1

flickr doesn`t want to play!

...although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.

Huddersfield? There are a few 2nd gear climbs.. but Sod the snow etc- the car just feels 'better' with four wheels powered. If I couldnt have 4 wheel drive I'd have rear wheel drive if I had to chose.

In general I wish folk would get off your silly 'we hate 4x4s' agenda.

2wd cars are fine- the same car with 4wd would be even better.

Another way to help traction would be to pull away in 2nd gear rather than 1st.
Also put a couple of bags of sand in the boot to give better traction on the rear wheels plus help the rear from sliding out.
May also help if you turn off the traction mode in BMW cars as
this seems to have the complete opposite effect.

Ps. I think we are talking about 'different' 4x4's

I'm all for four wheel drive over 2wd. I am suspect of cars like Tourags etc as they become a 'statement' rather than substance.

What is the 'statement' in driving a Toureg over a Corsa or an Aston or a Healy? This thread has descended into idiocy.

What worries me is some people watch footage of offroaders in 4x4's then think that their roadgoing 4x4 with low profile virtually treadless tyres is going to be as capable - talking about a couple of people I know and I'm sure there's more out there.

'I'll be ok going to XXXXXX cos I've got 4wd' comment made me chuckle this week when she couldn't get up the road outside our office when the Mondeo in front did.

Edit - And I like 4x4's.

This thread has descended into idiocy.

In fairness, it didn't exactly start on the highest intellectual plane.

2wd cars are fine- the same car with 4wd would be even better.

Another way to help traction would be to pull away in 2nd gear rather than 1st.
Also put a couple of bags of sand in the boot to give better traction on the rear wheels plus help the rear from sliding out.
May also help if you turn off the traction mode in BMW cars as
this seems to have the complete opposite effect.

Dickyboy - Member
Spongebob - find a friendly lorry driver & spend a day in their cab to enlighten yourself as to other drivers inconsiderate habits

Agreed.
Ex trucker here - now running a fleet of 60 odd. Some d1cks give the industry a bad name, but on the whole, considerate.

My favourite's are the X5's with 1 foot wide low profiles doing 80 in the fast lane that still has lying snow on it.

The trouble with the big "sport" 4x4's is they create a completely false comfort zone for the driver.

[img] [/img]

There are actually some fairly sensible posts on here. Not all 4 x 4s are equal. I've got a Honda CR-V and am very aware of it's limitations. It even says in the handbook it's not designed for off-road driving. It is however great in the current conditions where 2wd drive cars with normal tyres are struggling. It's been getting up snowy and icey hills no problem. However I am very aware I still need to keep the speed right down on hard pack snow bcause it's still easy to spin and going down steep hills usually involves braking before reaching the top of the hill and then dropping the gears to let the engine control the descent.

As has been said before it's down to the driver.

The CR-V has been a very good second car to our other one (a Touran) which is very fuel efficient but rubbish in the snow.

Ex trucker here - now running a fleet of 60 odd. Some d1cks give the industry a bad name, but on the whole, considerate.

Personal experience here but on a whole company livered-trucks tend to be more professional. Whereas I have seen some interesting 'bullying' or quick lane changes from company names I dont recognise (possibly one man bands/independent Hauliers?).

Mate with a expedition equipped Landcruiser towed a 7.5 ton lorry up a small hill, overtaking a Knobber in a BMW X5. The said Knobber was scrabbling about sideways with virtually no forward progress , whilst Ian pulled the TNT lorry past.

"2wd cars are fine- the same car with 4wd would be even better.

Apart from being heavier, burning more fuel and not actually providing any discernable advantage. "

Sorry but I disagree.
I have an old quattro and it's far better. It handles better, drives better, gets the power down better and I use it for towing the mx bikes and a small trailer.
It's been fantastic in this weather too. Although I only use it when I absolutely need too as my main concern is the mass of idiots who don't have a clue how to drive in this weather and carry on like it's a normal day. I don't want to get caught up in an incident so I'll get the bus or an alternative if possible...

...although the boot was big it didn't seem that wide and was pretty low so stooping to put bikes in and out I figured could give a few back problems.

If lifting a 15kg mountain bike in and out of the boot of a car is likely to give you back problems, are you sure mountain biking is the right sport for you ?

Nice one smart arse! it's not the weight going into the car that the problem it's the awkward stoop, twist and stretch that could cause a problem. I'm yet to replicate that on a mountain or road bike.

JonBHurns: I'm with you on that, I was off work for a week when my back twanged, I was lifting a Roubaix into a customer's car. (That doesn't weigh much) It was entirely the awkward leaning and twisting in through the boot lid that did it.

I've read through this thread and there are some valid points made for & against 4wd + 2wd vehicles. There is a lot of trolling too. What amazes me though is that some people do get really wound up about what other people drive.

Now, I've been driving a lot of years and what someone else is driving hasn't really concerned me. I like the look of some vehicles, I'm impressed by the performance of some, I've lusted after some that have been beyond my means but I really cannot understand why some people are so vehemently and aggressively opposed to what others drive. Why? I thought I was moderately intelligent but where does this need to tell others what they should or shouldn't be driving come from? It's a metal box with a wheel at each corner and the civilised world appears to be totally dependant on it such that most families have more than one and that towns, shopping, industry, etc. are designed around its use and we can't seem to manage without them.

I can understand the argument that we shouldn't be so dependant on them and so on but [i]why[/i] are we so concerned about what [i]everyone else[/i] is driving and feel the need to refer to people as f*+ckwits because they choose something different and [i]why[/i] do we feel the need to ask them to justify why they [b]need[/b] something different to our own choice?

can't believe this thread is still going, also can't believe people get so wound up over what people are driving

Is it because they DONT need it -it is a choice as other vehicles are available? The vehicle is less efficient on fuel,is useless in the snow , useless off road whilst making the driver feel safe enough to drive like a ****t as there 4 ton urban tank will crush you in a crash? 😆

Over 10million new cars were sold in China in 2009. If anyone cares to bang on about mpg etc on any particular car your pissing in the wind.

We can be good as you want, grow our own fruit. Be (makes comma sign with fingers) 'Carbon neutral', ride public transport....

Doesnt mean **** all though in the grand scheme.

Aye- drive what you want. Lost count on how many times Ive seen a diesel estate or whatever with mountain bikes ontop racing towards Wales, Scotland or the Lakes. Never seen a X5 or Range Rover loaded with mountain bikes driven in the same way.

BTW- I wouldnt go near a X5 etc (just not my cup of tea and I cant afford one anyway!)

I saw two children sitting on the bonnet of a van, bouncing up and down to get it up a hill the other day. They'd never had more fun by the look of it.