[Closed] 4 x 4 f*+ckwits

I wish my works 4x4 weighed 2 ton mine weighs closer to 3 ton. I hate the thing it's gutless uncomfortable to drive, turning circle of an oil tanker but doing my off-road refresher course last year I couldn't fault it went anywhere I pointed it's been great in this weather.
Oh what I don't like is when driving down narrow lanes the cars coming the opposite direction automatically thinking you are going to drive up the verge to let them through even if there is a three foot drop into the ditch.

[i]1. i can go biking get the bike dirty as **** and chuck it straight in the back without worrying about getting car dirty

2. in the summer i go camping alot and get to leave most of gear in car all summer to just get in and go, not constantly packing and unpacking.

3. when the weather is shite like now I get to take the back lanes home and leave the main routes clear for all the 2wheel drivers(and still beat them there)

4 If your really knew what you were talking about you would realise my diesel navara is far more fuel efficient than most 2ltr rep mobiles so it actually does some good too.
[/i]

1. I can do that with my Mazda 6.

2. I can do that with my Mazda 6.

3. You've got me there, but on average you are only talking about 2 or 3 days a year.

4. I doubt that very much.

So, on the whole I'd rather drive my "normal" car and not have the rest of the population think I'm a to$$er (not that all 4x4 drivers are by any means, but lots are).

Not so much 4wd hating from me at the moment - more just a question why do they drive them like 2wd cars and expect those of us with 2wd to get out the way. Not even following basic rules like give way to uphill traffic which should go double for winter conditions.

Anyway, take heart in some parts of the country there is always something bigger round the corner for them to meet.
[img] [/img]

And some times something even bigger than that.
[img] [/img]
(its a very big tractor driven by a very big chap - John is a 6'6" and built like a brick shit house.)

There's never a tractor trumps thread about when you want it.

the hustler - Member

I love the 4x4 haters, here are a few good reasons why i drive a navara

😆 Seconded

I drive an L200 though (awaits L200 bashing) for similar reasons. A 2wd car would struggle to pull nearly 1500kg of boat and trailer up the sandy slipway at Conwy. I can lash all my sandy wakeboarding stuff and muddy bikes in the back, and jet wash it out when I get home. I drive mine carefully and courteously, I've had 4x4 training and have to do advanced driver training through work. Not every 4x4 driver is a f*+ckwit.

Many "2wd f*+ckwits" have been thankful of my 4x4 the past couple of weeks when I've been pulling them out of ditches and up snowy hills they've got stranded on. And during the summer on the beach at Colwyn Bay, when they try to recover big boats on soft sand, on an incoming tide and get stuck upto the front bumper.

It'll never be as good as a Defender or Disco etc. offroad or in this snow, but its got a low range box and difflock and it suits me fine for what I use it for. It's also cheap to tax and insure. As for the fuel economy, I don't know you get with your Navara hustler, but I get between 25-30mpg with normal driving/towing, but I didn't buy a 2t pick up for fuel economy 😉

Adam_h my L200 went every where a Landrover went last year on a 4x4 course with the added bounus of not leaking water into the cab 😉

😆 Mine just drags it arse everywhere

Never mind the ****wits on the roads theres a few ****wits on tinterweb forums!

It's been quite nice these last few days, and before Xmas. Got the Landy or Jimny out, drove in the middle of the roads , pissed off slidy car drivers. why or why do those ****** try to go to work . why not stay in bed for a bit then go for a play like us teachers. Much cleverer 😆

Agree adam_h totally gutless.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It'll all be over in a few days / weeks

I really like my x-trail it's been ace over the past few weeks and have had the option of 2WD or 4WD. However I'm not too enamoured with the bellend who owns the 4wd Celica down the road as he insists on wheelspinning every morning and evening in the turning circle polishing the snow/ice making it much worse for everyone else....except me.

OK so kennyp's already done it, but I can do better...

I love the 4x4 haters, here are a few good reasons why i drive a navara

1. i can go biking get the bike dirty as **** and chuck it straight in the back without worrying about getting car dirty

2. in the summer i go camping alot and get to leave most of gear in car all summer to just get in and go, not constantly packing and unpacking.

3. when the weather is shite like now I get to take the back lanes home and leave the main routes clear for all the 2wheel drivers(and still beat them there)

4 If your really knew what you were talking about you would realise my diesel navara is far more fuel efficient than most 2ltr rep mobiles so it actually does some good too.

<i>I learnt some great tips when I did a basic course so I could drive my company 4X4 in a certain companies sites </i>

'Experience' by any chance?

I've driven all theirs including this at DVD this year (Millbrook - according to anyone you ask the best 4x4 proving ground in Europe).
[img] [/img]
Yes we managed to get it stuck. Computer decided it knew best and shut it down.

4x4s have their place, they are useful on the odd occasion but if anything that just goes to prove how way over-engineered they are for normal everyday road use - nothing justifies buying one instead of average family saloon car.

I used to feel the same about 4x4's until I had kids myself, so it's mainly for the wife to use and the benefits are the elevated driving position and ride height, the extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you plus all the airbags and the practicality of all the extra space. It's comfy for driving long distance and it's a diesel so it's not too bad on the fuel either- certainly better than the last couple of petrol engined cars I've had.
I know a lot of these features are available on a family saloon/estate and I did consider some of these, but having tried several and read all the reviews I think I made the right decision and I'm really happy with the whole package, and of course it's great to chuck the bike and gear in the back and head up the glens for a days riding too.

80 on a motorway. Prat

80 on a motorway. Prat

🙄

Although in a crash you really don't want to be in most 4x4s... especially a Navara, so I don't buy the "safety" reasoning. And I drive the things!

I had a Navara for about a year, it broke down... lots. The computer claimed I was getting 34mpg, but it was lying. I know this because I changed it for a Grand Vitara which claims I am getting 32mpg with a much smaller tank and yet I go to the fuel pumps less often.

Pickups are just waaay to flawed for use as a private car, given my work there are times I miss them - usually when I have a "dirty" sewage pump that needs taken to the workshop. It now goes in the boot, which is less than pleasant! But manouverability was pants with very poor turning circles and physical size that is verging on the rediculous. Nah... I can live without that (though it was fun to drive the Navara, but I think the Suzuki has better handling even if it is a lot slower).

For what it's worth - in the snow and ice I do drive quite slowly. Momentum is not your friend in these conditions. Keep it smooth, keep the speed down and everything is fine (within reason - I am supposed to head up to a site half way up the back of Skiddaw today, not sure if I am going to make it up the narrow lane to the place with all the sheet ice around, but will take a look).

Biggest problem I see with 4x4s is people misunderstanding them and thinking that it allows them to drive as normal in any conditions. Which is why you see BMW/Posh Landie/RangeRovers/Landcruisers etc all parked delicately in walls, snowdrifts and ditches at the moment. I was told in all seriousness yesterday that the best way down a lane with a 4x4 in this weather was, and I quote, to "Just Welly It". Oddly I didn't follow said advice and had no problems at all... unlike the X3 that deposited itself in a hedge going the other way.

Right - I am off up the north of the county. Wish me luck!

@AnalogueAndy
No, I think it was Aggrigate Industries. Their own guys tested you, rather like a forklift test I guess.
The scariest moment was coming out of a deep pit, as you got to the lip of the pit all you could see was sky it's weird having no horizon.

mattsccm - Member

80 on a motorway. Prat

Why? Its not 'speed' that kills.

Any 4x4 on road tyres would get blown away by a 2wd car on winter tyres.
If you really want the best of both worlds then get a normal car, and a set of winter wheels, like they do in Austria.

Having said that, if your 4x4 regularly gets muddy at least once a week, then I have no problem with you 😉

Any 4x4 on road tyres would get blown away by a 2wd car on winter tyres.

You do realise that when theres a snow coating on the ground a 4wd system with winter tyres is more secure/predicatable dont you?). Plus when its 1ft deep etc regardless the 2wd system will struggle if one tyre has no grip or it has to PULL all the weight of the car with just two contact points?

FWD cars trying to steer AND power the vehicle in slippy conditions? Or maybe trying to control the rear end with RWD? 😆

Overnight I've been parking in a snow drift alongside snowed up cars/that havent moved today as its safer there for more car (i.e not get knocked by passing cars). Then in the morning, I simply roll out of my 'space' well its 2ft deep (thats been free for the past two days) 😀

You do realise that when theres a snow coating on the ground a 4wd system with winter tyres is more secure/predicatable dont you?

Yes, but a 4x4 on road tyres (not all terrains) is still going to get whipped by a FWD car on winter tyres, all things being equal. Until you reach the point where ground clearance becomes an issue.

Once you get to the proper kit like Defenders you have the massive advantage of diff locks & the fact that they generally have at least all terrain tyres, whilst most road cars don't even come with an LSD.

KT1973 - Member

the extra security of having 2 ton of steel around you

Not so comforting for the mum on the school run in her Vauxhall Corsa though is it? It's like a pointless arms race - the only way you can be safe in a crash with a 4x4 is to have one yourself.

ooOOoo - Member
Having said that, if your 4x4 regularly gets muddy at least once a week, then I have no problem with you

My 4x4s don't go off road at all.
Well, this one has done a few forest tracks and muddy point to point car parks,
[img] [/img]

and the A4 convertible never goes off road, but it's still a 4x4

😉

Yes, but a 4x4 on road tyres (not all terrains) is still going to get whipped by a FWD car on winter tyres

You are trying to lump poser cars into the '4x4' bracket. A FWD car with winter tyres will always struggle on snow regardless.

A 4x4 with a owners 4x4 mentality tends to have winter tyres in winter.

Me to Oldgit. I too did a whole lot of 4x4 driving in the Army, even did my test in a short wheel base Land Rover in Colchester!

We've been thinking of trading in the 6yr old XC90 for a normal estate, decided now just to get another one, been brilliant this winter.

You cant drive a 4x4 like you would a lower car. I dont want to crush someone in their Corsa and I certainly dont want to hit an immovable object like a tree in a great big car. When you have 3 kids, a dog, old parents and like doing outdoor stuff they make just loads of sense, just dont be a dick about it ok?

mcboo, you were in the Army as well?? Me too!

..Salvation 😆

Dont get too excited son, I probably beasted you rotten.....

ignoring all the discussion above, i'd just like to say i had a good laugh at a bloke in a evo vii this morning. despite your car having 4wd the quickest way to get away from the lights when on a road covered in sheet ice, all that will happen is you'll spin all 4 wheels, as he found out. idiot.

A FWD car with winter tyres will always struggle on snow regardless.

No it won't.

For the first 2 months I lived in Bavaria it was completely covered in snow & it's a very hilly region. We had access to an Astra estate & a Vauxhall Sharan owned by the company we were working for. They both had winter tyres on & unless you drove them like a complete div, they behaved fine.
We used to use them several times a week in some pretty bad conditions.

I'm not saying they would be as sure-footed as a 4wd (car/ jeep whatever) with winter tyres but they hardly 'struggled'.

You are trying to lump poser cars into the '4x4' bracket. A FWD car with winter tyres will always struggle on snow regardless.

Oh. I understand now. 4x4s are defined as vehicles with locking diffs, 12 foot of suspension articulation, winter tyres, and owned by someone possessed with a "4x4 mentality". Any other vehicle that happens to have drive and braking on all 4 wheels is now recategorised as a poser car. Should a 4x4 be sold to an ordinary person, it instantly enters the poser car category.

And front wheel drive cars are always fitted with road legal slicks.

Got it.

4x4 diesel estate with spare set of all terrain tyres - job done!

....just a shame I have a mondeo & work from home, so no excuses there either, doh!

stumpy your telling me simple winter tyres on two front wheel drive cars were fine ontop of snow? Parts of Austria/Alps etc they use tyres with steel or snowchains when there is snow between the tarmac and the wheel?

tron I was clarifying what my understanding of 4x4 is. To me, a 4x4 was designed 4x4 first/with 4x4 in mind. Production cars that have 4motion etc were designed as cars first with 4wd added after as an option.

Haha. I love the negativity directed at 4x4 drivers. I drive a defender. And dont give a toss what other people have to say about it. I certainly don't drive round for 51 weeks of the year in a state of enhanced self consciousness!
People think they're unnecessary - which may be the case. But, half the bikes on here I'd wager are unnecessary. You can do 99% of riding in this country on a rigid mountain bike?! Who cares what you ride/drive?!

[i]A 4x4 with a owners 4x4 mentality tends to have winter tyres in winter.[/i]

The problem being in my experience, those with said mentality among 4x4 owners are as rare as rocking horse sh*t, certainly in rural areas. A significant amount of them have probably posted here already.

In rural areas like mid Wales the opposite is true though. I've only found one "typical" 4x4 driver (a school run mum who nearly ran me over on a roundabout despite me having priority.

Another issue is that several 4x4s (I'm thinking more the Chelsea tractor rather than Land rovers and Defenders) can't fit non-road tyres because the wheel arches are too small, but if you go for a smaller wheel the brake caliper gets in the way. Top Gear had a porsche thingy on a year or two ago with this problem.

Someone also mentioned snow chains like the Austrians have. Whilst I think this would be great there are two problems with this:
1. They cost an arm and a leg; problems like now happen once in a blue moon
2. If you aren't on the snow, they eat your tyres (you might as well set fire to £400, probably be less hassle)

Note: I don't hate 4x4s, I secretly want a defender. It's the idiot behind the wheel I always have a problem with, regardless of what they drive. It just seems to me that some of the worst offenders drive Chelsea tractors or land rovers in an urban area, with the only dirt they ever see being road dust.

Hora - check this vid out

That Porsche thing was born wrong. Answers on a postcard what the designers wanted/were thinking.

Ranger Rovers- yes. Theres STILL one sat on Deansgate in central Manchester. Im guessing the owner is slumped in the car surrounded by a sea of cocaine.

hora - yeah, not always driving on fresh snow, but when I had to I don't recall there ever being any drama.

We used to go to night school once a week in the largest nearby town about a 25min drive away. Several times it would be snowing heavily and by the time we came to drive back there were at least a couple of inches of snow on the roads. We never had any issue getting back, even though the road had quite a few significant hills on it.

The best pub in the town was also up a fairly long hill. This was generally clear lower down near the residential end of the street, but towards the pub was often snowy. On several occasions we'd drive the car up there and leave it until the morning (and stagger home) with no bother.

If it was snow covered everywhere, then snow chains/spiked tyres would probably have been more effective, but generally the main roads stayed clear. It was usually in the evenings before the snow plough went through that the main road would be covered in snow.

My girlfriend drives an old Golf, on half worn ordinary tyres, but they are all at least fairly new, so they're still pliable, and have normal tread patterns. Only thing you cannot do is a hill start on an icey slope. So you avoid doing it.

The most off roading I've ever done was in a 406 HDI, round fields and farm roads. Big wide low profile Goodyear F1s, worst possible tyre for off road. Never got stuck or bottomed it out because I looked where I was going and was careful not to stop where it would be difficult to set off again.

Last vehicle I got stuck was a John Deere 2130 when I was 12 or so.

I just don't see what all the fuss is about myself. I've driven all sorts of cars, from jacked up 4x4s with full lockers to little FWD hatches. All have their niche areas that they work best, decent 4x4s with the "proper" kit work brilliantly in the snow and ice, but I've yet to find anything I couldn't cope with perfectly well in my 306 estate so far this year, I really don't know what everyone is blathering on about as if the world is coming to an icy end. I've been up tiny hilly backroads in Luss with an indicated -15 on the dash and compacted snow/ice on the roads, I've beeen driving to work daily, I've driven through snow and ice in all kinds of cars and the only ones I ever even had the slightest "problem" dealing with in snow and ice was an automatic 3.5 litre RWD BMW, and even then it was only because I was a little over-enthusiastic. Drive to suit the conditions and you'll be fine. Sure, up the hilly backroads in stupidly low temps it wuold have been nice to have the extra traction of a 4x4 with M&S tyres, but ultimately it wasn't exactly impossible to drive. I do genuinely worry about the country when so many people can't cope with a little bad weather.

the only ones I ever even had the slightest "problem" dealing with in snow and ice was an automatic 3.5 litre RWD BMW

I've got what folk like Hora would deem a "poser's" 4x4 (Audi Allroad) yet it's gotten me everywhere I've needed to go this week.

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

2WD owners driving too cautiously (i.e. on cleared roads as though there is still snow/ice on them) is just as frustrating and common place as 4WD owners driving like loons.

And you know for sure there's no black ice around the corner on those recently cleared roads? Or a patch in a shady spot under a tree? It's still pretty chilly out there!