MOT on Tuesday and I think it could well be the end of the line for our old Megane. ptbjuniorv2 on the way in a few months, so looking to upsize to an estate (or possibly an MPV).
Wants:
- cheap tax (=<£30)
- high mpg (>45mpg ideally)
- manual
- roofbars
- towbar (bonus points)
- comfy seats
- cruise control
- ideally not French (convince me otherwise - the Megane electrics leave a lot to be desired)
Current list:
- Volvo V50, the eco version
- might sneak in a V70 with high mileage
- Ford Focus estate
- Dacia..?
- Skoda Octavia
Looks like for that price point we'll either get a Volvo/Skoda with high (>150k) miles, or something less plush that might be a little newer/lower mileage.
Anything I should look out for?
TIA
The Focus is not less plush than either the Volvo or Skoda. Probably what I’d get.
Mrs D picked up an ex company car (from her workplace) it's a Renault megane sports tourer estate 1.5 dci. Free road tax. 2013 reg. They are so cheap compared to German cars.
But it doesn't have the feel of a vw/audi/skoda. I need to oil the door hinges regularly and it just feels tinny. But the driving position is actually one of the comfiest positions I've driven (6ft3)
The engine (touch wood) has been great so far. Just replaced the clutch which was very reasonable. I think it shares the engine with Nissan.
Its got everything, cruise control, speed limiter, sat nav etc but it just doesn't feel quality and I keep looking at skodas.
I don't think it will age as well as other cars. But it's cheap!
The older I get the better volvos look. One thing I've noticed is the skoda superbs can be a better bargain than the octavia as they are not as sort after as people think they are too big. With parking sensors front and back thet are easier to drive than people think.
2004 V70 owner here, has hit a wall of jobs requiring a small off the road rebuild @195k miles.
I love the things but they are big heavy expensive when new 'executive' cars that can't be run on a shoestring. I wouldn't run an older high mileage one if I was paying the garage bills. But, brilliant safe high speed tourer that is part of the family hence the rebuild.
Do consider offsetting tax against buy price- these days people seem very drawn towards low tax cars but if you're spending a couple of hundred extra quid for that it's not really much of a bonus.
I'd be looking at Avensises and mk3/mk4 mondeos personally.
Skoda Fabia Estate.
The boot is bigger than the focus estate, look it up.
The 2015 on might be just out of reach, but the 1.2 TSI 6 speed 110ps petrol is good.
You'll be looking at a diesel for £30 tax though, but I would only have a diesel £3k car if I was doing mega miles, too much risk of expensive fixes on the horizon. Petrols much simpler and better driveability.
I was considering my options when my van was playing up a bit.
Vauxhall insignia and whatever the Seat versions of the Skoda/Audi are both seemed good value.
Personally I'm more of a Ford fan, but they seem to have gone up in the world since I was last looking at cars.
Buying based on VED makes no real sense as it's a fairly insignificant part of the the overall running costs of a car. Mpg is another that only really comes into play if you do significant mileage.
A Saab 9-5 or 9-3 petrol would fit everything other than those. The 1.9 diesel has the fuel economy but unless you're doing significant mileage then the risks of expensive maintenance outweigh it, and really why would you be doing significant mileage in a cheap old car?
The mention of VED was because I'm grumpy about the £205 that the Megane costs me each year - eats into the "bangernomics" budget quite significantly!
In fairness a £3k car, depending on the car, is less about bangernomics so perhaps the tax doesn't matter so much.
Hadn't really considered petrol, but we don't do crazy miles usually. A normal year is 10k miles, with the occasional 500mile round trips to see family.
Feel free to make alternative suggestions, maybe I narrowed my search too soon!
If you want value for money, get an insignia. Just as many toys as the others, probably as plush, you'll get one much younger with far fewer miles than the competition
1.2 TSI 6 speed 110ps petrol is good.
We've got that engine in a Seat Leon, and it is a belter. It does however have short service intervals (8k miles I think) and after the first 60k cam belt change it goes to 20k according to the service schedule. Not a problem for our low mileage car, (12 plate, 55k miles) but it's not even that cheap for road tax to offset the potentially expensive service costs.
Short service intervals are okay, I'll be doing all the usual stuff myself. 20k cambelt intervals seems a bit much though, hope they're cheap..
I've had two Citroen C5 estates. Both one owner low miles (54k and 41k) on 57 plates. Both just under £2k. Big comfortable load carriers and with the 2lt engine unstressed cruising and 45mpg or more. People are scared of them because of the hydro suspension. Not cool but big big value. Take your time and buy on condition whatever you go for. Found both on Facebook rather than the normal suspects. Because the search can't be narrowed easily people miss bargains. Good luck.
I recently bought a (pre dpd)V50 2.0d as a short term run around after my cam chain failed on my last car. I paid £1400 for mine with 120000 on the clock. It’s quite a nice place to be really with all needed toys and heated seats. It’s pretty well thought out with headlights that are quick release to facilitate easy numb changes ... the down side is bikes have to be later on top of each other I the back with front wheels removed.
Shameless plug
I'm flogging a 2009 Berlingo xtr for £2k.
12 month mot.
133k
Oil/filter changed every 6k.
Swallows bikes and stuff.
Tow bar
Cambelt, water pump etc done at 108k
Brake discs and pads all round at 128k.
Single bed r.e.d campers camping box.
Literally the best bike/family car ever. I'm just having a crisis and bought an impractical focus st so it has to go.
It's french though.
And £120 to tax.
Has no kudos.
But with a Berlingo: if you know, you know.
Got a new shape Peugeot 308 1.6tdci estate. Boot is cavernous, I think it’s one of the largest around. it’s now done 47k and it’s been cheap to run. Small steering wheel is weird at first, but you get used to it.
Tax higher than budget but a 3 series touring?
Sounds like a banging deal for someone Olly.
Hyundai i40. Fits your requirements exactly if you can find one in budget.
Picked up a 2008 V50 2.0D R-Design 3 years back, 98k, now on 140k. Will be keeping it for the foreseeable.
Way comfier than the Mk7 GTD & GTE I had previously. Does around the same MPG
Its needed on average £200 a year in parts (had new front arms in 2018, FR & RL brake calipers last year and rear rollbar drop links this year).
Parents have a Focus of the same age, seats are shite in comparison and doesn't feel as well put together.
2.0L Mk4 Mondeo ticks every box (and more) other than tax. £3K should be able to get you a higher spec Titanium 2009/10 around 100,000mi. Make sure the cambelt's been done. Rear bushes might need doing. DPF is quite resilient, but better to try and find a car that's done regular longer journeys rather than just pootle around town (similar to any diesel you go for). Massive load space for all the kid's crap you'll be carrying around.
really why would you be doing significant mileage in a cheap old car?
I just spent £650 (at crazy inflated lockdown prices) on a Berlingo. Between now and March I'll probably put about 12,000 miles on it.........
Simple logic, modern cars are in general pretty reliable. What are the actual odds of breaking down at the roadside or developing a terminal fault?
The lower the milage and higher the purchase price the more each new mile costs incrementally. In all likelihood I'll waft through the next 3 months on plush citoren suspension and it'll cost me no more than the new set of speakers it needed so I could listen to Radio 4 🤣 (plus tax, diesel and MOT will come to about £1800*). And at 45p/mile it's a nice tax free bonus.
I was even given a pair of nearly new Pirelli winter tyres for free from someone on a forum!
*bangernomics doesn't really work when you put it like that does it, but at least the other 8 months of the year is mostly free.
find my old 2005 V70 diesel that has been nicked with keys and log book in from the local car dealer!
If you want value for money, get an insignia
I looked at Insignia's last year and some of the engines in certain models suffer with an issue with a seal going funny which kills the engine or costs lots to fix before it does.
I had a similar budget last year and also included 2012 Passats. I considered diesels up to 160,000 as long as theyd had a cam belt and/or dual mass done previously, at 160,000 doing a yearly oil and filters change would keep them going for another 100,000 IMO.
Your budget also puts you in a period where most cars wouldnt have had a DPF.
I went through similar thoughts and came up with an Avensis estate. 240 VED but possibly offset by greater reliability. Just over 40 petrol mpg and a cam chain. 200kg lighter than the 320D it replaced but much bigger (and I prefer driving it, oddly). I'd be wary of high mileage diesels, too many big expensive bits to go wrong and I once cooked a (French) diesel car through too many short journeys.
Mpg is another that only really comes into play if you do significant mileage.
my last car was £1500, and I chose a petrol based loosely on that logic (ie : an expensive problem with a diesel could wipe out the benefits) - ended up doing 70,000 miles in it at 35mpg (1.8 non-turbo signum). Picking a diesel @47mpg would have saved ~2,500 litres of fuel over that time, a not-insignificant cost (in fact, getting on to double the purchase price).
Some thoughts on this:
I had a Renault Scenic once and wont buy Renault or French again. It was a lot of car for the money but the way it degraded over time was alarming - we got rid at 85k ish miles as so much was just broken or unreliable (many electrical parts such as the elec windows etc). Awful.
That said I had a Nissan as a company car and that was pretty good - had that from new though.
Some estates seem to be far more desirable than others. BMW and Volvo where you seem to get the least for your money. Merc estates seem quite ugly and they have an issue where the headlights tend to go a bit mouldy green, as a result you get a lot of merc for your money. Lots of fords about so they are a good buy - VAG group also good and skoda / seat variants often priced in line with VW / Audi as people default to the cheaper ones. I'd look at all the options and buy the best car - not look for a specific type. We bought our Passat after looking for a Volvo and once you start to look across the brands you really get a feel for where the value is. My only regret is not holding out for a car with cruise control - once you've had that there is no going back.
Something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-3-2-E320-CDI-Avantgarde-5dr-2004/203213832489?hash=item2f507d0129:g:WhUAAOSwwoRf0SBT
Personally...for 3k don't be too specific on the make/model and buy something in good condition for sale privately.
I'd go for
- petrol (1.6, 1.8)
- decent service history and signs of good maintenance
- no turbo
- no computer controlled semi-automatic (powershift DSG etc.)
Forget looking for 0/30 quid tax cars at 3k unless you are going to something Aygo sized.
ymmv
Honda Accord or Avensis for proper bullet proof and the Avensis isn't as dull as folk make out, I have no problems making progress in ours.
We’ve got that engine in a Seat Leon, and it is a belter. It does however have short service intervals (8k miles I think) and after the first 60k cam belt change it goes to 20k according to the service schedule. Not a problem for our low mileage car, (12 plate, 55k miles) but it’s not even that cheap for road tax to offset the potentially expensive service costs
Look up the service data in Germany for that engine.
The belt in Germany is fitted for life. They say to inspect it after 50k.
In the UK VW dealers will suggest you change it to line their pockets.
My only regret is not holding out for a car with cruise control – once you’ve had that there is no going back.
@uwe-r have you looked at retrofitting it? in the majority of cars these days its a new stalk/wheel buttons and 5 mins with a usb lead - I have done my brothers corsa and my galaxy this year.. something in the back of my mind tells me that for VAG group cars you don't even have to code it, just plug the stalk (£30ish, ebay) in
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on Cruise Control unless you can get the reactive / radar controlled CC. We got standard cc and I rarely use it unless I'm on quiet motorway.
Skoda Octavia, obvs! or VW Touran, dull but massive boot.
Seat Exeo is an A4 without the image problem and is a fantastic car. The problem is finding one! If I couldn't, I'd be in the best V50 I could get instead.
Seat Exeo is an A4 without the image problem and is a fantastic car. The problem is finding one! If I couldn’t, I’d be in the best V50 I could get instead.
Yes! try and find a 2.0T petrol one. It has the Golf GTI engine. Epic value. Not £30 VED.
Has the interior form the A4 cab so is nicer than A4.
I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on Cruise Control unless you can get the reactive / radar controlled CC. We got standard cc and I rarely use it unless I’m on quiet motorway.
100%
All my future purchases will always be with a car with adaptive cruise, normal cruise is just pointless with the amount of incapable drivers out there.
All my future purchases will always be with a car with adaptive cruise,
I'll take a limiter over cruise on the South's motorways but both for the win.
Not tried adaptive in the real world but my university research project was using a simulator and looking at impact of ACC on driver workload long before it was actually found in mass production.
To the OP - all the best long termer cars I've ever had have been Fords. We had two MK3 Mondeos at one point. Both pretty much bombproof. Mine I sold on here at about 170k and it went for about another 100k with its new owner I believe.
The other one we bought for less than 3k, had 100k on it and it did years of reliable service before we traded it for a newer Focus. Saw it around regularly for a good couple of years after.
My brother in law also had one that was another indestructible motor and he really isn't into preventative maintenance.
I bought a 9 year old s max earlier in the year and love it, seems well put together, most of the important bits seem to work and rarely a rattle or squeak.
With your money I'd be looking at a 1.8 normally aspirated petrol Mondeo hatch (or estate) or Foucs estate. No turbos, adequate go and had a pretty long production run.
Not tried adaptive in the real world but my university research project was using a simulator and looking at impact of ACC on driver workload long before it was actually found in mass production.
It reduces the workload.
Do I get a doctorate now?
Buying based on VED makes no real sense as it’s a fairly insignificant part of the the overall running costs of a car. Mpg is another that only really comes into play if you do significant mileage.
It's low VED because it pollutes less. Ditto MPG.
I'd rather pay less VED because of this, not because of the money saving.
A sentiment I wholly agree with, however increased polution goes hand-in-hand with increased mileage and increased fuel consumption.
So less efficient vehicles are better homed with drivers doing less mileage. The VED tends to be irrelevant as it's often compensated by a cheaper purchase price, or just proves a small part of overall ownership costs.
boriselbrus
It’s low VED because it pollutes less. Ditto MPG.
No - It's low VED as it's designed to produce less emissions under a very specific, very unrealistic test cycle. I'd rather buy a car with proven MPG stats (Fuelly) than one which claims to be environmentally friendly.
@uwe-r have you looked at retrofitting it? in the majority of cars these days its a new stalk/wheel buttons and 5 mins with a usb lead – I have done my brothers corsa and my galaxy this year.. something in the back of my mind tells me that for VAG group cars you don’t even have to code it, just plug the stalk (£30ish, ebay) in
Only a quick google once and the dealer option mentioned was ridiculously priced. I will look into it.
100%
All my future purchases will always be with a car with adaptive cruise, normal cruise is just pointless with the amount of incapable drivers out there.
The Nissan i had (mentioned above) had standard CC with buttons on the wheel to adjust the speed and turn on/off. I guess its half way to adaptive where you can just flick the speed up/down/off as required with practically zero effort. Adaptive does sound good but having the control of speed on the wheel is the new minimum for me now.
I'm in a very similar position to the OP. Looking for mpv sized car, C4 picasso type of thing. Really like the lazy torque of a turbo diesel but now looking at a petrol. Things like turbos, dpf, dmf/clutched, injectors seem like a real risk on higher mileage diesels. Appreciate I could be missing similar issues on a petrol.
This is not a directly useful response but just throwing this information into the mix
I run a 1999 Golf gti Petrol 1.8T and it has just crossed 200,000 miles. The previous owner (who had it from about 10k miles, 18 years in total) had it serviced every year. The engine is perfectly happy.
Annual oil/filter changes really seem to be the key to longevity of a car.
I realise this is anecdotal, but hopefully a useful anecdote.
Also, I'm similarly always keeping my eyes wide open for a load lugger as I have a growing amount of equipment that a golf can't swallow.
Okaydokey, Megane failed MOT today as expected. Needs enough doing to make it not worth our while, as we need the bigger car within the next 4months anyway. Going to pop new pads in the rear so that it no longer has any "dangerous" fails and can be driven to find its replacement... It'll still have 2 major (steering related) and 1 minor (registration plate bulb) defects, if anyone is interested in a (very) cheap runabout with MOT until 10 January 2021, give me a shout - looks like WBAC would give us £300ish.
I have one week to find a replacement before a 500mile round trip to see the family over Christmas - South Manchester if anyone knows of anything suitable nearby!
Things like turbos, dpf, dmf/clutched, injectors seem like a real risk on higher mileage diesels.
IMHO, low mileage diesels are more at risk. Running around without getting properly up to temperature and properly re-gen'ing the filtration systems is a recipe for shagged DERV units. We had a 20,000 mile transit at work a couple of years ago. Scrapped mainly because the engine was knackered.
looks like WBAC would give us £300ish.
That might be what the website quotes, you'd be unlikely to get that once they've been round and kicked the tyres!
They actually said about £450, so I've knocked off a third for the classic WBAC mark-down haha
The Nissan i had (mentioned above) had standard CC with buttons on the wheel to adjust the speed and turn on/off. I guess its half way to adaptive where you can just flick the speed up/down/off as required with practically zero effort. Adaptive does sound good but having the control of speed on the wheel is the new minimum for me now.
Thats pretty much any car with CC.
You can adjust the speed with a flick/click of a button on the steering wheel or a stalk. Thats nowhere near as good as when you suddenly approach slower moving traffic when you're going much faster, flicking/clicking down wont slow you down as it'll just release the throttle and engine brake till you get to that lower speed.
CC with braking function is the halfway house, standard on most newer cars or the luxury brands, where if you flick down on speed it will slow you down quicker with the auto applying of brakes or if you're going downhill itll slow you down rather than just speed up till you eventually slow down again.
Thats pretty much any car with CC.
You can adjust the speed with a flick/click of a button on the steering wheel or a stalk. Thats nowhere near as good as when you suddenly approach slower moving traffic when you’re going much faster, flicking/clicking down wont slow you down as it’ll just release the throttle and engine brake till you get to that lower speed.
CC with braking function is the halfway house, standard on most newer cars or the luxury brands, where if you flick down on speed it will slow you down quicker with the auto applying of brakes or if you’re going downhill itll slow you down rather than just speed up till you eventually slow down again.
To be honest I would not want to be to reliant on the car doing the braking - i guess i'd have to try it but if i need to brake i'm going to brake. I've only ever tried the variant of CC that just holds a speed - ok and the the version with up/down/off on the wheel controls - that is the game changer.
cruise really comes into its own with lane keep assist (and I guess autopilot) - I had a rental hyundai with it and it just sat in its lane at a speed/behind a car for 2 hours with barely any intervention. Oddly the setup in a brand new e-class wasn't nearly as good.
either way, the value of cruise vs radar guided cruise comes down to how busy the roads are. I've only got normal cruise, but don't drive except for 'trips' (no commuting) which are normally late evening so the kids are asleep anyway. Lack of radar guided (which I could have retrofit instead of standard, at higher cost) isn't really a concern
Dont think you will get afaptive cruise estate in budget.
Have you looked at t the oddball Korean manufactures.
Hyundai i40 might sneak in or kia probably make something similar
Passat estate could ne worth a look, but they are mostly derv
V50 is a pretty long wheelbase, ditto v60, Alfa 159 for looks on the drive.
Jaguar x type, mondeo running gear but unloved so probably cheap
Saab93, its a Vauxhall in a pretty dress, state owner spare parts co. No meed to worry if you need a light unit
The engine (touch wood) has been great so far. Just replaced the clutch which was very reasonable. I think it shares the engine with Nissan.
We have an earlier 2007 version in herself's Note. It's needed a vacuum unit changing (£300) and an injector (£500) in its time with us. Seemingly indestructible as long as oil and filter are changed regularly. The rest of the car at 170k miles is hateful but it's the around town runabout.