Started this off today, the aim being to get as much out of the next 3-weeks 'training' before taking on the SDW Way in a Day... will keep it up for two weeks (every second day), but **** me it's hard, who would've thought 2.5 minutes (which is all it adds up to out of an approx 20 minute stationary bike workout!) could shatter you so much!? First 15-20 seconds of each sprint is 'OK', but that last 10 seconds is a killer, thought I was going to hurl after the 5th sprint, couldn't face a 6th so went off to the pool for some slow laps... Max HR seems to be around 190bpm, recovery back down to less than 140 takes 2-3 minutes at the moment, good or bad??
Anyone else trying this stuff out? Any tips for maximising the benefits?
Link to workout... I'll give it a go. Might join you on the SDW too if I can get the day off.
[url= http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/sampleworkouts/a/30sec_sprints.htm ]Just following this simple plan... nothing too technical[/url]
- Warm up. Before sprints, warm up thoroughly with easy exercise for 5-10 minutes. Perform the same exercise you will be using for your sprints.
- Sprint. Perform your first sprint at about 60 percent max intensity. If you feel any muscle tightness or joint pain, back off and continue to warm up.
- Recover. Recover for 2 minutes by slowing to a comfortable pace, but keep moving. This can be an easy jog or a walk, depending upon your fitness.
- Sprint. Perform your next sprint at about 80 percent max intensity.
- Recover. Recover for 2 minutes.
- Sprint. Perform the remainder of your sprints at 100 percent max intensity or all-out efforts of 30 seconds. You should be pushing yourself to the max for each one.
- Recover. Recover for 2 to 4 minutes after each sprint to allow your breathing and heart rate to slow to the point that you can hold a conversation without gasping.
- Repeat. Repeat the sprint/recovery routine 4-8 times depending upon your level and ability. For your first workout, you will want to stop at 4 sprints. That's fine. Try to build up to 8.
80 percent max intensity
defined by what?
2 mins recovery seems too long. IMHO
Cool... I've been following an iWorkout that also has it's foundations in HIIT... for max benefits you should go flat out for 100% on each of the intervals. Or ask iDave for his workout plan.
Hi iDave, was hoping you'd pop up 🙂
defined by what?
I'm going off a HR monitor, basing it on a max HR of 190bpm, for 100% I'm simply pedaling as fast as I can against medium resistance (around 140-150rpm depending how shagged I am!)
Sounds like a one way ticket to pulled muscles.
Sounds like a one way ticket to pulled muscles.
Plenty of warming up before launching into the sprints, should help negate this? Feel fine now for instance, stretched down afterwards as well, plus the slow laps and a bit in the steam room would help?
Might join you on the SDW too if I can get the day off.
Fingers crossed you can make it 😀
Wow... iDave, SBZ and me talking on a thread about HIIT... where's Molly!
Psychle... I hope so... got some leverage to get the day off.
Think you need a much much longer and more graded warm up.
Have you been including intervals in your training already? I would be cautious about starting intervals with only 3 weeks to go. If you are doing them properly, every second day is probably too much, and you are more likely to knacker yourself than see any benefits.
30 sec on/off sessions are definitely good training for road races. For your SDW ride, longer threshold efforts might be more appropriate, but starting out months in advance and building up gradually, rather than launching into them now.
wonder why a cheetah doesn't 'pull' muscles when it sprints without stretching and warming up...
iDave - where do Cheetahs live and how warm is it there? 😀
And how close to the Cheetah's maximum speed do they need to go to catch their prey?
The answers to those questions along with the Cheetah's lack of communication with humans tell you why you dont hear of Cheetahs pulling muscles.
Sit in a sauna first then Psychle to make everyone happy 🙂
As a veteran of sprint interval workouts, yes they do hurt like hell. Grim.
I used to do 6x3 min sprints then 6x1 min then 6x30s separated by 5 mins. That's 26 minutes of sprinting as hard as you can. Grim.
I think Cheetas do warm up don't they? There's a bit of stalking going on first. Those poor gazelles don't get much of a warm up mind when a cheetah bursts out of the long grass at full pelt.
wonder why snow leopards/timber wolves etc don't 'pull' muscles when they sprints without stretching and warming up...
See my edit above.
I did read that stretching wasn't such a good idea as it weakened the muscles... active warmups being better.
Having said that when I was at uni I used to go everywhere by bike, leaping on and sprinting through traffic like a loon without any warm up at all. I've pulled a muscle on a bike once maybe in 20 years of cycling, and it wasn't back then.
And how close to the Cheetah's maximum speed do they need to go to catch their prey?
100% of it, that's why they evolved that max speed.
You sure about that?
wonder why snow leopards/timber wolves etc don't 'pull' muscles when they sprints without stretching and warming up...
evolution?
Nah mate - it's intelligent design.
You sure about that?
Fairly. Gazelles can't run quite as fast but the twisting and turning etc means that the Cheetahs are usually flat out at various points from what I've seen.
Do Cheetahs prey on Gazelle?
SBZ... more to the point... why don't Gazelles pull muscles?
Do they not run at 100%?
Rubbish analogy I'm afraid.
Adrenaline helps the Thomson's Gazelle which are a major prey species in East Africa yes SbZ.
TSY - they dont pull muscles because the cheetah eats them?
Top speed of a cheetah is roughly 20mph higher than that of a gazelle.
Yep. Have you not seen film footage of cheetah hunts?
I have seen cheetah hunts in the flesh.
The hunts can take 30s or more, right? So if a cheetah could run 20mph faster than a gazelle then it would, and it'd catch the thing in less than 30s.. are you suggesting it jogs just to draw the hunt out a bit?
Silly argument.
Cheetahs and gazelles have evolved to sprint without a warmup, and as I have shown it's possible to adapt to an extent. Humans originally evolved in East Africa as endurance runners not sprinters; whatever we've evolved into now is probably neither. There's naff all in the animal kingdom that we could catch by sprinting, so we're not really specialized for it like the other animals mentioned above.
Wait a minute... I thought the Cheetah didn't run at top speed? I also don't understand why the gazelle doesn't try and run a bit faster or worse pull a muscle?
Maybe they're caught coz they have to pull up with cramp.
Anyone fancy trying the 'Spartan 300' workout with me?
There's naff all in the animal kingdom that we could catch by sprinting,
[img]
[/img]
I reckon I could catch this fella.
HIIT - been doing that for years
hapless, indolent, irregular training 😳
Jeez... I go away for an hour and come back to a discussion on Cheetahs?? For the record, I am not a Cheetah, I am more like the Sloth posted by avdave2...
Basically trying to get the most out of the next 2-3 weeks, coming from a reasonable aerobic base but not a great deal of fitness, figure HIIT might be the best way to get 'quick' results to boost my fitness a bit?
psychle - it is.
Agreed.
edited into oblivion.
If you really want to get faster
Don't want to get faster, just want to get a bit fitter to give myself a decent shot at completing it! It's a last minute plan to have an attempt at the SDW, so want to get the most out of the short period I have before setting off...
Has anyone here followed any of this guy's advice?
http://briancalkins.com/HeartRate.htm
ps: you seem happy to spend thousands on flash bike componentry, but spending a fraction of that on a proper training plan would make a you a whole load faster than any number of carbon fibre frames..
That's assuming everyone's goal is simply to get faster. It's not. We're not roadies 🙂
Keep on with the intervals. Nothing to lose.
edited into oblivion.
Tinners, the karvonen heart rate stuff has been known to be flakey for more than 20 years.
the karvonen heart rate stuff has been known to be flakey for more than 20 years
Why's that? (not doubting it, just curious to know why)
Probably because it's garbage Tinners 🙂
I just put my details in and it came in with my max HR as 177.
Now bearing in mind that I know I can sustain an average HR of 185 for an hour, basing HR training around a max 177 figure would be pretty useless.
The fundamental problem is, I imagine, that it uses figures based on an average, which is fine if you fit the average, but most people don't. It's a bit like having a formula that tells you how many kids you have. Stick in the value 'UK', you get the answer 2.4 , a figure pretty much guaranteed to be wildly out for most people.
"Hard exercise hurts non athletic rider". That's the idea isn't it? If it doesn't hurt then it's not proper exercise. As for stretching 'weakening' muscles what are folks smoking these days? If you want to get better or fitter then expect to suffer. If you injure yourself then know you pushed a bit too far. And as for all this cardiovascular zone stuff why not start dabbling in 'spine wizardry' and 'water fondling'. The science backing them up is about equivalent. If you want to get better at sport then do more sport. If you want to get better on the bike then ride it. Hard. No, VERY hard.
BTW, it might be that I [i]want[/i] to get better on the bike, but don't make the time for the miles. Here's hoping I make it to the end of the Sam Houghton before daylight fades...
psychle - you might like these links, even if you can only access the abstracts
1 is research that showed that something very similar to what you're doing was equivalent to 5 hours/week steady aerobic training. http://jp.physoc.org/content/575/3/901.short
The other is a different protocol that got similar positive results by reducing the intensity of the work intervals to 100% VO2 max (rather than an out and out sprint) but extending the duration to 1min at a time. One reason given for the modification was that subjects were feeling a bit queasy at the higher intensity! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2849965/
Unfortunately, both trials were carried out on human subjects and it may not be valid to extrapolate the findings into cheetahs, but interesting nonetheless.
Birly, that's the kind of stuff I've read elsewhere as well and what's inspired this wee bout of HIIT; seems like magic to me (well, kind of), but if it gives me a bit of a boost for my big ride, that'll be excellent... of course, dropping a few pounds of body weight over the same period would help as well!
Going back to interval training and away from the cheetahs, any idea if I do something like this on my commute once a week or so, will it make a big difference to my speed / fitness?
The commute is 16.2 miles, takes a bit under an hour on an okay day (55 minutes at best), so I have a fair amount of time to warm up / warm down. I'd kind of figure 20 minutes warm up, do some intervals for 20 minutes then pootle home. Does that sound sensible?
I have hills also, should I work the intervals around them (hammer up the hills, freewheel on the downhills or something), or is more strict interval training going to work better?
Joe
joemarshall - read Chris Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist.
In it he's a big advocate of thr HIIT approach, and will give you plenty of idea for what you can do to make best use of your time.
I found commuting a similar dailty distance did give me a good "classic" base, but the cumulative effect of that and the rest of my life ended up with me being pretty worn down. Not sure I could have done much HIIT on top of it (though every ride was done at tempo).
I now have much less time - child, moved farther from work - so am going to utilise a HIIT oplan to get some fitness together for the cross season.
If you want to get better on the bike then ride it. Hard
That will work, but possibly not as well as a more structured approach.
Probably because it's garbage
Thanks - I'm not advocating it. It's just that a few people have mentioned this guy to me and that they were following it and I wondered what evidence there was in support of it (or vice versa, of course) and what people's experience was of it.
I found commuting a similar dailty distance did give me a good "classic" base, but the cumulative effect of that and the rest of my life ended up with me being pretty worn down. Not sure I could have done much HIIT on top of it (though every ride was done at tempo).
Yup, I'm not doing it daily at the moment, only work 4 days a week, and a fair few of those days from home.
wonder why a cheetah doesn't 'pull' muscles when it sprints without stretching and warming up...
Are you suggesting that a warm up is not necessary or even useful?
I started interval training about 5 weeks ago. I live in a very hilly village with left-hand loop of 1.2 miles. It allows me to nail the climb (big ring, 1 minute climbing with average gradient of around 15%), then a gentle 3-4 minute spin back down to the foot of the climb. I do 8 laps after a 7 mile warm up.
The difference has been startling, loads more power. My limiting factor now is my VO2 max and general muscle efficiency which I hope to improve with longer rides.
The main advantage as I see it is that within 30 mins of getting off the bike, I feel fresh and recovered rather than that horrible battered feeling you get after a long, high intensity ride.
Sounds a bit like Tabatha training with longer rests. There seems to be a fair ammount of evidence that that works pretty well.
I think tabatha is 40 secs on/40secs off x16 or something like that.
tabata is 8 x 20sec max, 10 sec recovery
enjoy
Tabata - no pussy cats involved.
(20 secs on 10 relaxed) x 8
I normally manage 6.5 before I feel like throwing up 🙂
When I started doing intervals years ago I hated them. I had lots to do and didn't feel like I was getting faster. After a few weeks whilst bimbling through town I approached a particularly long wait traffic light when it was on green and BLAM! My legs knew what to do and I rocketed through the light far faster than I ever expected. That was nice 🙂
So did we establish what interval sessions Cheetah's do?
Tabata are my favourite 🙂 pretty sure they're what cheetahs use too.
Looking forward to getting back into my interval training routine.... one day chasing gazelles, the next doing tabata... repeat.
I wonder if you could make a cheetah faster by putting it through a structured training programme? It works with horses after all.
Our cat was pretty damn quick and never ran anywhere unless he was being chased by the neighbour's dog.
On a gym bike with a 1-20 scale of resistance, what do ya'll reckon I should set it at? And would you change the resistance for the sprint bits vs the recovery bits or just leave it the same for the whole session?
Been doing the following once a week for the last 3 weeks in an attempt to get some speed for TT's
15 min warm up
6 x 30sec flat out with 30sec recovery between efforts
5 min easy spin
6 x 30sec flat out with 30sec recovery between efforts
5 min easy spin
5 x 1 min flat out with 1min recovery between efforts
10 min cool down
Not been working yet 🙁
what do ya'll reckon I should set it at?
Personally I'd set it on 'rowing machine'.
I wonder if you could make a cheetah faster by putting it through a structured training programme? It works with horses after all.
You could make it faster by getting it to do a warm up. Works for horses (& humans).
Maybe Cheetah's do a warm up and documentary makers just think it's too boring to put on their films 😉
Interesting phil, but humans and horses are both endurance animals.. would be interesting to know how sprinter animal physiology differs.
Although - adrenaline probably compensates for a warmup in the wild...
Started this off today, the aim being to get as much out of the next 3-weeks 'training' before taking on the SDW Way in a Day
short interval training is going to do very little for riding the SDW in a day, steady tempo and hrs in the saddle is what's required and 3 weeks to go is leaving it late for anything intensive (assuming you have done little target focused training beforehand)
any competent trainer/coach could have put together a program for you, it certainly wouldn't have involved 15 second balls out sprints.
*shakes head*
any competent trainer/coach could have put together a program for you, it certainly wouldn't have involved 15 second balls out sprints.
bollox
any competent trainer/coach could have put together a program for you, it certainly wouldn't have involved 15 second balls out sprints
Sure about that?
STW is moving with the times MrSmith 🙂
Oddly enough, molgrips, when I first got my dog I asked my sister if it's endurance levels would change much with training.
She wasn't sure - apparently it's not something they learn at vet school.
Phil - afaik dogs do get fit or unfit just like we do.
it certainly wouldn't have involved 15 second balls out sprints.
your right there, I'd expect you to be fully clothed at all times during training.
*holds head in hands*
molgrips -
I wonder if you could make a cheetah faster by putting it through a structured training programme? It works with horses after all.Our cat was pretty damn quick and never ran anywhere unless he was being chased by the neighbour's dog
[img] 
[/img]
😉
Pfff.
Molly - what's the progress on the 'aftermath'?
I've weighed in under 12 stone the last three days.
Er the aftermath hasn't started yet. My folks have been over and I've been on a bit of a holiday.
Did weigh 83 two days ago though - been doing lots of walking about with a 20kg weight on my shoulders.
Molly - Don't make me find someone else to look up to! I'll try not to be dissapointed just yet
*tries really hard*
You got the mahoosive KB's yet?
One mahoosive KB yes. It's very heavy, but it seems a good point from which to start improving 🙂 I have not done any workouts yet only a few exercises, and my muscles feel like they are going to have to earn their keep, which is a nice feeling.