[Closed] 27K a year? Well that's scuppered marrying my university sweetheart

I think DS may be suggesting that they were not actually socialists.

EDIT:Indeed DS happy days

thank god Thatcher came along to sort out the mess...thats what we need right now

So what are they the national front in disguise?

This was from 1997 to 2010, were you asleep during the labour govt?

yes, but I don't remmeber any of this happening in the last 10 years.

i think they mean the hyperinflation and oil crisis, general strike and 3 day week.

On the plus side, punk rock did make a slight comeback, but I don't think that had anything to do with Blair.

So what are they the national front in disguise?

So what are they the national front in disguise?

" ... make no mistake ..." (article link in OP) why do they keep using that phrase? I know the US President use it a lot ... hhhmmm ...

Well, what the govt can do is simply this. Discriminate against those countries that constantly breach the rules. i.e. ban them. No political correct shite needed.

But not try to ban all countries ... stupid woman (MP May).

This isn't 25.7K between us, this is 25.7K for the UK spouse only. We are both graduates, but in my line of work as a Biomed 20k is all I can hope for over the next few years.

How the **** would I be a burden if we were living at my rents, earning 30K at the MINIMUM between us. My girlfriend having spent 50k on a university education here, let alone the extra 10k her parents will give her for her masters. I've never been on the dole and if we ever have a problem with graduate jobs both of us are always guaranteed full time work in a Hotel with our board paid for us.

We are both young, hardly use the NHS and could even afford to take out private health and dental insurance.

So if it goes through the UK can miss my arse. I'll disappear and they won't be getting any of my student loan back, they will lose a graduate in Biomedicine and a graduate in Economics. We'll go to Australia, Singapore or Hong Kong instead as we have contacts there. My girlfriend is getting an 80 percent average at Uni, has a stupidly high IB score. Again, a burden? Really?

And for your info this was not only in the Guardian but in the Daily Heil as well. The conservatives and labor are both ****tards.

Did they ask Lansley about this?

Seriously, this rule will create a HUUUGE hole in the private healthcare system in three years time.

Lord knows how many non-eu care assistants (who will have a snoball's chance in hell of making 25k with all the overtime in the world) in Residential and nursing homes and private hospitals and hospital units will have to leave their jobs and go "home". Professionally, I know of several large and expensive private units (who take 100% uninsured and not-paying-themselves NHS patients at great expense to [s]their local PCTs/commissioners[/s] the taxpayer) who will be gutted (like a fish, not like bieing diappointed) of nursing staff once this begins to take effect. Not to mention any units who rely on nursing agencies for relief staff (and indeed the agencies themselves!)

May's a disaster when it comes to immigration tbh, she treats it like a sales target, "reduce immigration by x% by any means". No interest in getting the right people in... Her approach to student visas is just demented, education is a UK success story and we work hard to get people here from all over the world- and they're paying customers too, they substantially fund the education of UK students. Yet almost every month there's a new rule or charge, designed to make it harder to get a non-EU student here and studying. Because to some people, every immigrant you turn away or deter is a result, even the ones that pay a fortune to be here, then leave.

Did they ask Lansley about this?

Seriously, this rule will create a HUUUGE hole in the private healthcare system in three years time.

Lord knows how many non-eu care assistants (who will have a snoball's chance in hell of making 25k with all the overtime in the world) in Residential and nursing homes and private hospitals and hospital units will have to leave their jobs and go "home". Professionally, I know of several large and expensive private units (who take 100% uninsured and not-paying-themselves NHS patients at great expense to their local PCTs/commissioners the taxpayer) who will be gutted (like a fish, not like bieing diappointed) of nursing staff once this begins to take effect. Not to mention any units who rely on nursing agencies for relief staff (and indeed the agencies themselves!)

Good, I hope the cons **** the country beyond belief and the Daily Mail types get what they deserve.

According to them it doesn't matter if we screw the healthcare system up and create an even bigger aging population....as long as there are less brown people.

p.s. I'm pretty sure I'm still in the "net drain" category too, so not sure why you've taken umbridge to it, just a fact that I probably pay less in tax than I've cost the treasury over my lifetime so far.

The real drain on this country are old people. Should shoot the bastards when they get to 70 if they can't afford to live without state help, hey?

In terms of fairness, any pensioner who has over a certain amount of assets should be stipped of some of it to pay for their retirement, chronic and terminal care.

How about the rich and retired who's children are put through university on grants? No need for the rich and retired/old/infirm to take from the healthcare system, education system and child benefit if you can afford not to.

How about dealing with the people who are making it harder and harder every day for those on an average wage to live? You know, tackle the increasing divide between the rich and poor? Which is actually a divide between the old and young.

The real drain on this country are old people. Should shoot the bastards when they get to 70 if they can't afford to live without state help, hey?

In terms of fairness, any pensioner who has over a certain amount of assets should be stipped of some of it to pay for their retirement, chronic and terminal care.

How about the rich and retired who's children are put through university on grants? No need for the rich and retired/old/infirm to take from the healthcare system, education system and child benefit if you can afford not to.

How about dealing with the people who are making it harder and harder every day for those on an average wage to live? You know, tackle the increasing divide between the rich and poor?

So much anger!

Just to play devils advocate, you're what 21 and just graduated? How much of a (monetary) contribution have you made so far, that's 21 years of healthcare, schooling, etc etc etc. Retire at 65 and you've less than 21 years on average left. And you've spent the last 40 years paying NI and state pension so you can retire.

so the rich and old pay for the poor and the young?
what if you're rich and young or old and poor?
how do the burdensome immigrant spouses fit in?

Bwaarp - feel for you.

But, don't think that 27.5k is financially contributing - I think that starts at just under 40k.

Good luck.

24. I've earn't about 30K, 10K in my gap year. 5 K each summer.

Just to play devils advocate, you're what 21 and just graduated? How much of a (monetary) contribution have you made so far, that's 21 years of healthcare, schooling, etc etc etc. Retire at 65 and you've less than 21 years on average left. And you've spent the last 40 years paying NI and state pension so you can retire.

They are a burden because their are two many of them, the retirement lives they were promised were just a dream and our younger generations are having to pay for the increasing costs of keeping them. The boomers hold something like 70 percent of the wealth in this country. There is no way the youngest generation can compete with this, especially whilst paying for the increasingly extortionate healthcare costs they land us with as they want every new alzheimers drug that comes out no matter the cost.

BTW, lower paid workers burdensome? HAH! Nice ill informed yuppie opinion if there ever was one!

See >>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8410489.stm

Enough said.

The more the current government screw the young the quicker we will see a brain drain like that which happened in Ireland. to the detriment of the UK's long term economic viability. The least they could do is give us brownie points to bypass some of the requirements if we have good degrees/masters in science or finance. But nooooooooooooooo.

Night!

Interesting how this argument is all about a simple calculation of tax vs use of resources - lots of people earn well under the average wage who contribute a lot to society in other ways (and probably indirectly save the country money too).

I apologize in advance if I've sworn at anyone. I'm intoxicated, annoyed and plotting my way out of the potential consequences of this legislation. I've just been writing a list down of things to do so I can worm my way out of this, I've got a few research contacts in Vancouver so I'll see if I can wrangle my way into Canada. Whistler....whooo! If I end up abroad though, married with children, under this legislation it would be very hard to ever return as a single family unit. I'd have to put up with government mandated child abuse.

I really don't see how if both of us are earning basic graduate pay (20K a year), with no children and with my girlfriend likely to be on far more than me because of her insane degree average that we'd be a financial burden.

Why is it okay for my mate to marry a Spanish girlfriend who didn't have a job for the first 6 months when she moved over here with him, who is now a part time musician bum but it's not okay for me to marry a graduate in economics with brilliant prospects?

I'll just leave, my ancestors are all Icelandic or Hungarian so I have no patriotic ties to the bunch of monkeys inhabiting this godforsaken grey, windy and wet island.

grum - Member

Interesting how this argument is all about a simple calculation of tax vs use of resources - lots of people earn well under the average wage who contribute a lot to society in other ways (and probably indirectly save the country money too).

Aye- people doing essential work for low wages contribute to society by doing essential work for low wages. If you want to insist that everyone "pays their way", and yet you still want these jobs done, then you need to pay them enormously more. A citizen's value is not their tax return.

All the lefty papers seem to have picked up the story- I think it originated here, actually.

Last week figures released by the Department for Education showed that children with English as their home language were now the minority of pupils in more than 1,600 schools across England.

One in six primary school pupils - 547,000 - does not have English as a first language, with the figure for secondary schools one in eight, or 400,000.

😯

Course, that includes bilingual kids- I know a few folks who have kids of school age who speak english as a second language, but to a higher standard than many kids who speak english as their only language. (and seeing real-time translation done by someone who can barely tie their own shoelaces is pretty impressive!)

I wonder what the numbers look like for EFL pupils who don't have a good standard of conversational english.

But tbh this isn't very relevant to the thread as very few school-age kids earn £27K.

Heres some charts to aid understanding of the net financial contributor statement. Doesn't mean anything other than it says btw and there will be exceptions to every rule and yes thats probably you.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13633966 ]BBC link[/url]

I may be crediting the goverment with more logic than they deserve and the number could be arbitrary.

Ah STW - rich people are evil and pay nooooo tax evvvverrrr and poor people can do not wrong.

Having emigrated (UK to Oz) on a family visa my partner is financially responsible for me and I cannot claim any state payments. Simple system really.

Argue away. I got my nugget of gold when TJ said:

moaning types like you are no asset.

😀

TandemJeremy - Member
Grantway - off you go then - moaning types like you are no asset.

Where do you suggest is better?

Tandem My personal TAX bill averages £17,000 per year,
plus the TAX for the Four other persons I employ full time
and the Two further persons I use on a self employed basis.

So what do you actually bring to the table !

I'm pretty sure the £25.7k is actually the household income... Not individual. So just over £12.5k each a year.., or two people doing 37hrs a week on minimum wage.

Not exactly difficult.

What do I bring to the table? - a working life in public service with a public service ethos that after 30 years now sees me earning around the national average wage

So Grantway - you hate the UK so much and think it is so poor - where do you think is better?

TandemJeremy - Member
What do I bring to the table? - a working life in public service with a public service ethos that after 30 years now sees me earning around the national average wage

So Grantway - you hate the UK so much and think it is so poor - where do you think is better?
.
.
.
So your holding on for your pension which is understandable.
But apart from that nothing.

Regarding public services that should have been scrapped and privatised years ago.
But being that it will cost to much in Redundancies, the only option the
Government will have would be to Tuppee you over and then only
have your service for one year.

People within these sectors should be made accountable for there failings
All you hear within such sectors is people moved on money wasted and
the embarrassment covered up.

So Grantway - you hate the UK so much and think it is so poor - where do you think is better?

TandemJeremy - Member
So Grantway - you hate the UK so much and think it is so poor - where do you think is better?

Packing for my Hols leaving in 1hr But will invite you for a chat when back.

I am fascinated to know where you think is better than the UK that you hate so much and why you are still living here when you hate it so much

What I like about the UK is the level of tolerance. You can air your opinions without constantly being challenged or forced to justify your opinion. God forbid we turn into one of those countries where people simply get on with living their lives in place of being busy bodies.

[quote=don simon said] God forbid we turn into one of those countries where people simply get on with living their lives in place of being busy bodies.

Source ?

😉

I am fascinated to know where you think is better than the UK that you hate so much and why you are still living here when you hate it so much

To be fair TJ - the same could be said to you, given your ardent support for the entirety of Scotland leaving the UK 😉

Tandem My personal TAX bill averages £17,000 per year,
plus the TAX for the Four other persons I employ full time
and the Two further persons I use on a self employed basis.

WTF do capitalist always claim they employ people as some sort of social services ...you do it because you can make money from it the second you cannot you will make them redundant or stop using their services.

Regarding public services that should have been scrapped and privatised years ago.
But being that it will cost to much in Redundancies, the only option the
Government will have would be to Tuppee you over and then only
have your service for one year.

Its called TUPE, your terms and conditions are preserved and it would cost the new employer just as much to make you redundant as the previous employer.

i do wonder where all the doctors , nurses and teachers are coming from once you have sacked them all.....is it abroad? then all those highly skilled individuals we have paid t train will either 1. leave with your daughter or sign on...what a win. i dont think you have thought this through and have let your contempt over rule your intellect.

But under the current system (and I think this is moraly right) they pay in according to their ability and take out according to need.

Where's that last sentence come from, its a quote about the NHS IIRC?

thisisnotaspoon: it was a phrase popularised by Karl Marx. He used it to describe what a communistic society would be like.

As far as living in the UK, and immigration goes, well, this all affects me personally. The government and many of the people in the UK seem to be reactionary and fearful. Me, I say no one is illegal.

I don't know what emigration was like before this situation came about, but amongst my friends circles I'm hearing of loads of soon-to-graduate students are going to go living and working abroad to escape the issues in this country. These include financial/housing/work/ideology. There are work pathways abroad that will allow a better than average (for here) lifestyle, although admittedly I am wondering if most of these people saying they are going are truly culturally prepared for their move.

And yes, I'm going, but I grew up in various places around the world and believe I am more prepared for change. I'm also unable to marry my non-EU partner here due to lack of government qualification surrounding money.

loads of soon-to-graduate students are going to go living and working abroad to escape the issues in this country

are they not part of the problem then? part of a society that just hides from its problems? in fact runs away from them.

I still want to know what countries yo think are better?

doesn't everyone think Australia is better?

you have never been there then 😉

Too hot

too many bitey things

The figures in the Guardian are wrong, although I'm sure they know that. Unless the original poster's girlfriend has 3 children, the minimum income required is £18,600 which is surely within reach of a highly qualified / capable graduate.

The £27,200 limit applies to partners wishing to enter the country with 3 children.

Been to Aus many years ago - some things I liked but even the cities ar very provincial, there is a racist undercurrent that is not nice, the beer is not good no right to roam

farmer the torygraph git it wrong when quoting the letter from may they had seen

The letter from Mrs May to Nick Clegg, which has been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, proposes a tough new minimum income of £25,700 a year for anyone seeking to bring a spouse, partner or dependant to the UK from outside the European Union from June - almost double the current threshold of £13,700.
The minimum income would rise dramatically - up to £62,600 - if children are also brought in.

can you provide a source for your claim
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/and-this-one-goes-out-to-everyone-at-close-protection-uk
a large number asked you to on another thread and you failed to on that thread so i just wonder where you get your info from as no one seems to know and it counters two reports cited on here

are they not part of the problem then? part of a society that just hides from its problems? in fact runs away from them.

No, the people who are part of the problem are the boomers who are forcing living costs up drastically for the young.

We should cull them. Put them out of our misery, there was a time when the old and infirm would go out into the wilderness to die so as not to jeopardize the tribe. A lesson from Japan wouldn't go a miss, sepuku hey?

waarp - Member
A lesson from Japan wouldn't go a miss

😆

Heres some charts to aid understanding of the net financial contributor statement. Doesn't mean anything other than it says btw and there will be exceptions to every rule and yes thats probably you.

BBC link

I may be crediting the goverment with more logic than they deserve and the number could be arbitrary.

I should imagine someone who has on average all their life earned below 25.7k might contribute less. But the young who don't have children, don't need the NHS and don't need benefits will not.

What about a 50 year old who wants to marry a foreign citizen, who earns 40K a year but has Type 2 diabetes? In the name of fairness we should ban him from marrying as well! Seeing as the huge cost of the disease probably outweighs what he earns!

Can we ban bankers from marring foreigners because they have technically destroyed more wealth than they brought into the country over the past decade?

And for the other poster, no this is 25.7K for the UK based spouse. They want you to be able to support your spouse if they do not have a job as they don't want them on benefits, why not means test it and not give them benefits at all in first bloody place? My parents would certainly help out if there was an issue, we would never have to turn to the government.

So in all, if this goes through, the British government can go and **** themselves. I'll head to the Asia-Pacific region, the place to be this coming century and never send a penny home to the pricks inhabiting this island.

A lesson from Japan wouldn't go a miss

where the age-old culture of reverence for the elderly has been replaced by shipping them off to nursing homes if they don't add to the economy?

never send a penny home to the pricks inhabiting this island

are you still drunk?

where the age-old culture of reverence for the elderly

Really what I meant by the Sepuku part was the bankers. They should get a sense of honour and jump off the nearest tall building for ****ing it up for the rest of us.

are you still drunk?

Angry.

for the elderly has been replaced by shipping them off to nursing homes if they don't add to the economy?

Greed and capitalism for you. I'll be keeping my parents close by/in the same house if I can.

There are a lot of English tutors who will be heading out. The world is crying out for native speakers to fill roles out there so technically we could say that jobs in that pathway are pretty much guaranteed.

never send a penny home to the pricks inhabiting this island

However, anyone who thinks that leaving this country means that money will not go to our government needs to look at the bigger picture. If you go out teaching English, you will be carrying out British Diplomatic Strategy imo. You will be enabling a language system that is geared up using our language through curriculum and examination systems in their educational institutions (public or private) to send their citizens to our country into education or work roles, which will therefore produce money for this country.

This means those with a high honour code may find this work difficult, unless they can learn to pigeon-hole things to survive.

Been to Aus many years ago - some things I liked but even the cities ar very provincial, there is a racist undercurrent that is not nice, the beer is not good no right to roam

Looks like you need to go back. Things have changed...

Been to Scotland many years ago - some things I liked but even the cities ar very provincial, there is a racist undercurrent that is not nice, the beer is not good and although there is a right to roam, it's always too cold and wet to utilise it.

Just saying, like 😉

EDIT: Actually, scratch that first point, it would probably be better if you kept your prejudices 12,000 km away

[quote=Farmer Joe]The figures in the Guardian are wrong, although I'm sure they know that. Unless the original poster's girlfriend has 3 children, the minimum income required is £18,600 which is surely within reach of a highly qualified / capable graduate.

The £27,200 limit applies to partners wishing to enter the country with 3 children.

Just thought I'd highlight Farmer Joe's post before it gets lost amongst the noise.. apologies if I'm letting the facts get in the way of a good argument.. 😀 😉

frogstomp - Member
Farmer Joe » The figures in the Guardian are wrong, although I'm sure they know that. Unless the original poster's girlfriend has 3 children, the minimum income required is £18,600 which is surely within reach of a highly qualified / capable graduate.
The £27,200 limit applies to partners wishing to enter the country with 3 children.

Just thought I'd highlight Farmer Joe's post before it gets lost amongst the noise.. apologies if I'm letting the facts get in the way of a good argument..

Facts you say?

The letter from Mrs May to Nick Clegg, which has been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, proposes a tough new minimum income of £25,700 a year for anyone seeking to bring a spouse, partner or dependant to the UK from outside the European Union from June - almost double the current threshold of £13,700.
The minimum income would rise dramatically - up to £62,600 - if children are also brought in.

Bye now.

So is Farmer John's purpose in life to enter threads in which the government is looking bad, and tell enormous lies? Everyone's got to have a hobby I guess.

See, there seems to be a conflict between Farmer John's post and the text of the letter as released by the Telegraph...

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9165090/Ministers-plan-major-immigration-crackdown.html ]She tells Mr Clegg: "In particular I propose a minimum income threshold of £25,700 for a British citizen or person settled in the UK to sponsor the settlement of a spouse or partner of non-EEA [European Economic Area] nationality."
For a partner with one child, the income threshold would rise to £37,000 a year, for two to £49,300 and for three children it would hit £62,600 according to the letter.[/url]

[quote=Lifer]Bye now.

Maybe, or maybe not.. the Sunday Times reports the other interpretation and, in fact, the Telegraph contradicts itself in [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9322259/Government-to-launch-new-crackdown-on-foreign-prisoners.html ]another article[/url]:

Mrs May is also set to introduce a new “financial independence” rule next month that will oblige anyone wanting to bring a spouse from overseas to the UK to have a minimum salary of £18,600. This threshold rises if the couple have offspring, with someone applying to bring three children into the UK obliged to have an annual income of £27,200.

[quote=vinnyeh]See, there seems to be a conflict between Farmer John's post and the text of the letter as released by the Telegraph...

The quote which you quoted is only half-quoting a quote.. the second sentence appears to just be interpretation..

Zokes - are you saying there is no nasty racist undercurrent in Aus - what with racists being elected and riots and so on?

Guess we're all as clear as mud on this one then - but it is clear that the way it's been reported doesn't clearly delineate between "fact" and interpretation of how the policy will actually be implemented.

The quote which you quoted is only half-quoting a quote.. the second sentence appears to just be interpretation..

mm, fair point, so we'll use the actual quote:

In particular I propose a minimum income threshold of £25,700 for a British citizen or person settled in the UK to sponsor the settlement of a spouse or partner of non-EEA [European Economic Area] nationality

There'd be no point in permitting a lower base income for family units with children, would there, and I can't see how spousal income could be taken into account since the spouse in the majority of cases presumably won't have a job in this country due to not being in this country

I suspect though, that in light of recent events that any ambiguities in the policy will only be resolved when public reaction has been gauged.
Whichever way it gets cut though, the Tories are facing an impossible task to limit immigration to their pledged levels without finding a way to control EU immigration, unless t

Even allowing for the op's youth, his comments suggest this policy can already be considered a success.

Well done May.

Zokes - are you saying there is no nasty racist undercurrent in Aus - what with racists being elected and riots and so on?

Certainly no more than the uk or elsewhere, which seemed to be what you're implying. But just like your comment on the other thread about nz: should I assume that you know more about a country 12,000 km away than someone who actually lives there?

We're all entitled to our opinions, perhaps it's just better if the nastier ones were kept to ourselves, eh? Boot on the other foot 'n' all....

Rochdale is full of UK born people who will never work and are a massive drain however down the road in Oldham there are people marrying out of the UK, bringing over wives, relatives etc which is just as bad. What should we do about either? Nothing. On the former theres a proposed two strikes and you are out on benefits to with the TUC retorted 'its slave labour' FFS.

A generalisation however should we do nothing?

Difficult but people like the OP will always (sadly) get caught up. My partner is a second generation herself.

Tbh i grew up thinking i was going to move to nz

Then i went to nz for 6 months and toured by bike round most of it Holiday destination not somewhere i want to live its nice but it has its draw backs.

Likewise with auz - and auz is bloody expensive to boot.

The only place ive been so far that ive thought i could live here was california

The media has alot to answer for in forming peoples aspirations in where to live. .i travel alot and ill tell you the uk doesnt have it so bad.

Well, you don't seem to like this country very much so why would you want to bring her here?

I appreciate the frustration, but we're only going down the same path as Australia, Canada and pretty much everywhere else that people actually want to move to.

I think we could free up a fair bit of room by permanently exiling the entire readership of the Guardian and the Daily Mail. Imagine how much less bitching and whining there would be.

Well, you don't seem to like this country very much so why would you want to bring her here?

+1 you are young as well. Get out, live your life make the most of it. When I graduated I went to London. I wish we had tried Canada first 🙁

I think we could free up a fair bit of room by permanently exiling the entire readership of the Guardian and the Daily Mail. Imagine how much less bitching and whining there would be.

Should be easy with the daily mail, just a big headline saying weekly bin collection this way all the way to the docks.

As for the Gaurdian readers, hard to get enough left turns in a row....

As for the Gaurdian readers, hard to get enough left turns in a row....

Guess, we're stuck with the Tories as well then - all those u-turns just add up to going round in circles

Guess, we're stuck with the Tories as well then - all those u-turns just add up to going round in circles

I think U turns are fairly equal half start right half start left....

The media has alot to answer for in forming peoples aspirations in where to live. .i travel alot and ill tell you the uk doesnt have it so bad.

You're not wrong there; I've lived all over the place and in my opinion the UK is the best place on earth to live.

Edit I guess I should qualify this somewhat:

- Unlikely to wake up murdered in your bed
- The weather sucks but extreme weather is rare
- Healthcare and education are for the most part free and adequate
- Clean cheap water!
- Hardly any animals are big enough or poisonous enough to kill you
- The countryside is on your doorstep no matter where you are
- The people have a sense of pride in their nation
- A largely benign and stable governmental system
- A stable currency

Unlikely to wake up murdered in your bed

To be fair you're unlikely to wake up murdered in your bed in most countries. There's nothing particularly British about that.