Oh and in the US, they don't even have ceramic Starbucks mugs. Every drink goes in a paper cup even if you stay in. WTaF?
Perhaps the government should mandate a minimum standard of coffee at work so we can all go there and drink from our desks from a ceramic mug?
Molgrips for President!
Oh and in the US, they don't even have ceramic Starbucks mugs. Every drink goes in a paper cup even if you stay in. WTaF?
The attitude to waste in the US is staggering. Admittedly, this is an old example, but in my teens I worked on a US summer camp. Every single meal, that's three meals a day for three hundred children and thirty staff, plus mid-morning/afternoon snacks and drinks, for ten weeks, was served using disposable plates and cutlery...
To be fair the main drive through fast food joints moved away from polystyrene packaging to cardboard years ago so easily recycled
Erm, most cardboard cups are plastic lined making them waterproof but very hard to recycle as the plastic and cardboard have to be separated.
25p isn't going to change my habits.
50% of the time I buy a coffee it's unplanned - in town & fancy it - i won;t have a cup. Biodegradable would work.
The other 50% is motorway services - so might work although I often stop and use a proper cup as a break on a longer journey.
Since the above article, I've wondered why regional recycling plants not capable of recycling these cups, cannot store these cups and then periodically send them in bulk to the centres that can deal with them?
the reason is that they are very difficult to separate from other mixed waste, they require specialist equipment to reprocess which in turn means you need a large volume of cups to justify investment. The paper mill in Kendal can take them, they just can't get enough
they can't be stored for long periods as they have organics on them that go off and smell, odour is a massive issue for the recycling industry
Every single meal, that's three meals a day for three hundred children and thirty staff, plus mid-morning/afternoon snacks and drinks, for ten weeks, was served using disposable plates and cutlery...
I've seen this in people's homes whenever there is anyone round.
They levy needs to apply to all paper and plastic cups, whether I get a smoothie or a latte is irrelevant, driving down the numbers of single use cups is as is recycling the ones used
Bit of a leftfield and slightly tongue in cheek - but - it's a drink that arguably 99% of the time isn't needed there and then.
Get up 10 minutes early and have a drink at home, have one in the office / work canteen or in a service station sat down, but do people really need to drink on the go? Course they don't.
Ban all disposable cups and make drinking out of them illegal 😆
As with a lot of other problems [ alchohol sales , plastic bags etc ] the onus is not to solve the problem but to tax the consumer .The issue is not how much the coffee cups are , but how they can be properly processed, or is there another way manufacturers can provide disposable cups .
There are a lot of coffee shops that only give you a disposable cup regardless of whether you want to sit in. It’s ridiculous and I’m pretty sure they just don’t want to employ some to collect and pot wash. Pret A Manger at Manchester airport don’t give you a choice and if you want milk pour it into a tiny little disposable cup rather than straight into the tea or coffee. Mental. don’t even get me started on coffee pods.
Instead of making it a 25p levy, why not make it a 50p deposit on the disposable cup? Even if the buyer discards it, I’m sure there will be plenty of other people happy to scoop them up and return them to the cafe for the refund! The cafe can then recycle responsibly.Rachel
^ a very good option IMO
I have been ranting about disposable cups for years. IIRC they are waterpoofed by coating them in polyurethane which is what then contaminates the rest of the waste card/paper if they are put into a recycling bin so that little cup then ends up contaminating a whole batch of recycling so it all ends up in landfill or the incinerator.
Everytime that advert with the pretty lady for Al-Qaeda coffee (or whatever it is) comes on I get cross and go on a mini rant about the promotion of people using disposable cups from their own home.
I am so pleased to see how quickly recently the uprising against non-recyclable packaging and single use items has become.
don’t even get me started on coffee pods.
The whole coffee pod industry should be nipped in the bud. There is absolutely no need for such an invention and it is grossly irresponsible.
I think the premise of the plastic bag tax isn't for money raising (it doesn't go into the general pot), alcohol tax is for cash raising although there is a slight behavioural nudge where minimum pricing is introduced
the plastic bag tax has worked, we use less plastic bags because we are tight, some people carry on but the tax can be increased and the number reduces again. The tax should have it's own version of the Laffer curve
At least one large teaching hospital's canteen runs on disposable cutlery (though currently actual plates). I'm betting lots doThe attitude to waste in the US is staggering. Admittedly, this is an old example, but in my teens I worked on a US summer camp. Every single meal, that's three meals a day for three hundred children and thirty staff, plus mid-morning/afternoon snacks and drinks, for ten weeks, was served using disposable plates and cutlery...
At least one large teaching hospital's canteen runs on disposable cutlery
Chopsticks is the obvious solution 🙂
As with a lot of other problems [ alchohol sales , plastic bags etc ] the onus is not to solve the problem but to tax the consumer .The issue is not how much the coffee cups are , but how they can be properly processed, or is there another way manufacturers can provide disposable cups .
No, the issue is not with recycling, it's with reuse. Recycling is not a goal, it's what you do when you cannot re-use. Hence the desire for re-usable cups.
Taxing the consumer can work, it's worked pretty well with plastic bags. Far fewer single use bags being used here in Wales in the main supermarkets.
Instead of making it a 25p levy, why not make it a 50p deposit on the disposable cup? Even if the buyer discards it, I’m sure there will be plenty of other people happy to scoop them up and return them to the cafe for the refund! The cafe can then recycle responsibly.
Genius idea from Rachel. 😀 Might solve the Windsor begging 'problem' as well.
I tried a keepcup which was a bit rubbish and the coffee would cool quicker than a paper cup, now have an uppercup which is double walled plastic and a much better product.
I use a man bag so on the back of this thread I'm going to start using it again as I can't stand litter and waste so really should be using it all the time.
I think the premise of the plastic bag tax isn't for money raising
It's not a tax at all, the government doesn't see or handle any of the money that's raised though the plastic bag charge.
If you don't have time to sit in the cafe and drink your coffee out of a reusable cup then you must be working hard enough to afford the 25p extra.
Biodegradable cups are cheaper than a 25p levy so why not just force coffee shops to use these?
Re-use/your own cup is even better.
20yrs ago in Sweden I was caught out at an event that *everyone* else had brought their own version of a travel mug / folding cup to. Sadly my folding cup only lasted 5 years. I now routinely carry round a small travel mug (which is a pain to find, most are oversize buckets).
Okay… how about doing away with coffee establishments that quip "sorry, we only have take away cups" when you order an espresso. Many customers will be drinking their diddy drink there and then, so don't force disposable cups on them. "Bring your own" doesn't work quite as well for short drinks, unless there is the option to warm the cup quickly first. How about taking a deposit for the first reusable espresso cup, and replacing with a fresh prewarmed one each time, putting the returned cup into the wash system? Refunds on returns needs to make a come back for cups (and bottles) etc as well. Agree with those saying that reusing is MUCH better than recycling.
ooo how is this going to affect the hateful free coffee and waitrose?
While in Cornwall this week I noticed that giant Costa cups are more prevelant in the hedges than McDonalds cups now… "coffee" packing waste IS fast food packaging waste now, not something different.
Andyl - RE Waitrose - they already allow you to use a travel mug, you just show your recipt.
Bring your own" doesn't work quite as well for short drinks, unless there is the option to warm the cup quickly first.
See that thin wiggly thing on those big coffee machines? That's the steam wand, perfect for instantly warming a plastic/glass cup.
I've got some lovely Klean Kanteen insultated tumblers that I much prefer over plastic / cardboard cups. I do still receive some puzzled looks on the faces of staff at coffee shops when I hand it over - I guess they are tyring to figure where to tick a box on it or whatever.
Anyway, I'd have no issue with the levy. The cup vending machine idea suggest on page 1 is a good idea too.
I never use disposable cups and always sit in so no need. The whole packaging issue needs addressing. Ironically i got a rapha mug delivered yesterday, it came in a box and then a bigger box, albeit with few t shirts which could have been used as protective packing, but were not.
I would welcome a tick box on the order stating non gift purchase, therefore minimal packaging.
Instead of making it a 25p levy, why not make it a 50p deposit on the disposable cup? Even if the buyer discards it, I’m sure there will be plenty of other people happy to scoop them up and return them to the cafe for the refund! The cafe can then recycle responsibly.
They do this at Download on the cardboard beer 'glasses'. It works really well, you often see kids wandering around with stacks of cups yards high that they've Wombled. It almost works too well, you've to keep a close eye on your empties and near-empties or some bugger will have away with them.
Andyl - RE Waitrose - they already allow you to use a travel mug, you just show your recipt.
I know you can use a travel mug but what I mean is are they going to pass on the 25p to people getting their free coffee?
I hope they will. It will stop all the people who just care about their free coffee as I bet they wont want to cough up 25p for it.
Used to get people coming into Waitrose cafe with Asda bags full of food, sitting down with their free coffees in the cafe and then pulling out food from asda and eating it. They put a stop to that by only allowing free coffee in the cafe for people buying food.
The Alfa Romeo 156 had no cup holders, although marketed int he compact executive market in the early 2000s (against BMW 3 series etc)
Walter De Silva (the designer), when asked about this 'oversight' said "A real human being does not drink coffee from a paper cup. He stops at a roadside cafe and sips his espresso while gazing at his beautiful Alfa Romeo".
Walter says you're all scum.
Walter de Silva was right in most things.
Though wasn’t it the 155 that had no cup holders? (Actually, I remember it not even having any level surfaces!)
Rachel
its a good idea in principle, badly implemented. Better options would be a cup deposit, incentives for more ecological cups or ban on plastic-lined cups.
On a general litter note I would make litter picking part of community service for shoplifters.
Ban on non recyclable cups is the only workable solution.
Surely they can design a removable plastic liner. The problem isn't so much plastic but the complexity of separating the plastic from cardboard.
I would make litter picking part of community service for shoplifters.
Shoplifters are not the problem, people who litter are. You are just perpetuating the idea that people do not need to be responsible for their own waste, and that someone else less important/of lower status should do it. Litter picking should be the community service for people who litter.
I'd be the first to support a ban on disposable cups no matter how biodegradable they are. Same with all polystyrene fast food packaging etc. There was nothing wrong with wrapping chips in newspaper.
The inconvenience is nothing compared to the environmental issues and frankly I am fed up with the have it now society. Wait until you get home or brink a flaming flask!
Shoplifters are not the problem, people who litter are. You are just perpetuating the idea that people do not need to be responsible for their own waste, and that someone else less important/of lower status should do it. Litter picking should be the community service for people who litter.
Agreed. In our town we have a drive through McDs on the access roundabout to the A3 - a sort of mini non motorway services with a garage. Rubbish from McDs on the access slipway back to the A3 is so bad they have now installed CCTV and signs saying litter droppers will be fined. Litter droppers will be made to do 20 hrs community service picking up litter with a dayglow tabard identifying you as a litter dropping scumbag might have more effect.
I suppose the irony in this is we get our knickers in a twist about nonbiodegradable cups and litter but forget about the beans being transported across the world to make the coffee, the evironmental damage done by the farm factories generating the milk, the petrol chemicals being used by the car they are driving, the environemental damage done by the fast fashion clothing they are wearing. The coffee cup is the tiniest ice cube sized tip of a mahoosive iceberg.
Litter fines are pathetic in this country. Some US states fine people $1000 for littering, especially on highways. Plus you may get a cop pointing a gun at you.
On a general litter note I would make litter picking part of community service for shoplifters
Totally agree. We should have a lot more community payback labour rather than prison or motoring fines etc. Litter, graffiti, parks, schools, old folks home, get them in there and tidy/paint/drains dug etc.
We have a Waitrose in town hundreds of people walking around with there complementary coffee in disposable cups. Would be easy to make it free with own cup
Litter picking should be the community service for people who litter.
LIKE
Last time I went up Snowdon everyone up there was clutching disposable cups from the cafe. Plenty of them on the ground too. Great idea.
I try my best, but the fact people still throw their crap on the floor makes me think we'll all be roaming the post-apocalyptic wasteland long before a meaningful number of people manage to change their habits.
Get up 10 minutes early and have a drink at home, have one in the office / work canteen or in a service station sat down, but do people really need to drink on the go? Course they don't.
Depends, when your job involves spending the entire working day in a vehicle, with time constraints, then the only option is to grab a snack and drink when stopping for fuel. Or duck into a McD and grab something then back out again, which is what I do when in the team car, I don’t have time to stop otherwise.
As far as bottles of water are concerned, the sooner there’s a deposit system set up, the better! When I was a kid, bottles of drink from the corner shop always had a deposit, and we kids would hunt around for bottles to supplement our pocketmoney, if there was money to be had for plastic empties, I’m sure kids would happily start scavenging around the hedges to make money.
I Like the deposit idea too. The only potential down side I can think of is people emptying bin to get can / bottles out and throwing other litter on the ground next to the bin.
