‘This site’ recommends nothing though, does it… it brings together all the different datasets and recommendations so that you can see and compare them without having to hunt them down… if one of their sources has a dud recommendation, you can compare what they advise with what the others are saying…
https://comparethetacticals.com/edinburgh-south-west
As I said, useful, not definitive. Much easier than checking all the tactical voting sites individually (or worse, checking just one that turns out to be an outlier with poor advice).
Vote SNP.
kelvin
Subscriber
‘This site’ recommends nothing though, does it…
I'd say that it does recommend courses of action- not their own, but they're recommending these other listings. And while I half agree on them usefully drawing together sources, they're recommending specific sites for specific reasons. In this case, brexit.
I think a lot of people will be looking at this sort of thing for the first time, so it's a bit of a worry when some of the guidance is almost exactly the opposite of what you should do.
it’s bloated, corrupt and generally places far too much power in the hands of people who don’t really know what they’re doing
Hmm, that sounds rather familiar....
stop making the assumption that everyone who voted for Brexit is a Tory/thick as mince/racist
If someone, anyone, could provide any evidence to the contrary then I would look at it. In the absence of any such evidence then the best you can possibly hope for is
gullible
Not a great look IMO.
Hmm Boris says to NATO “One for all and all for one...”
#hypocrit
This would clearly be morally very wrong, but anyone know the rules around doing something like:
Setup a party called something like "Get Brexit Done Party" or "NHS Support Party", do no campaigning and have zero intention of acting on anything.
Then run in marginals purely to try and suck up some votes from people who just read what's on the paper and tick it?
I'm assuming this would be illegal in some way otherwise with the state of things someone would of tried it already?
If there isn't rules in place then maybe their needs to be!
This would clearly be morally very wrong, but anyone know the rules around doing something like:
Setup a party called something like “Get Brexit Done Party” or “NHS Support Party”, do no campaigning and have zero intention of acting on anything.
Then run in marginals purely to try and suck up some votes from people who just read what’s on the paper and tick it?
I’m assuming this would be illegal in some way otherwise with the state of things someone would of tried it already?
If there isn’t rules in place then maybe their needs to be!
I don't see any reason why you can't do that. You could also get together with a bunch of mates and join the local party of your choice and literally take it over your local party and selecting the candidate of your choice. There are very few people active parties at a local level these days you'd only need a hundred people or so to totally take over. Frankly I think you could do it with 20.
I don't know if it was planned but a local candidate to me, fought the local elections as Tory and the day after she won her ward went to the Green Party. Three people involved in a local campaign in my area joined the party they expected to win wards in the local elections. Two of the three were able to stand in safe wards for that party within a year and directly influence that local issue.
Momentum have showed what can be acheived.
Lots of practical ways to achieve things in politics but people prefer to complain on FB so they never happen.
it’s a bit of a worry when some of the guidance is almost exactly the opposite of what you should do.
Is it showing you something different to me? A quick glance at their pooled information for Cherry’s seat screams “vote SNP” to me. Hope she wins.
Anyway, these kind of tools are useful for showing people that what is happening in their seat is probably entirely different to the debate coming out of their goggle box and pocket computer 90% of the time. Tactical voting is essential to prevent the usual suspects having FPTP deliver them a majority government based on a minority share of the vote.
Vote tactically.
https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/1202152525182443523?s=21
Barry Gardner was being interviewed on Today. He was being asked about Labours commitment to NATO (and the implications for national security). Talk about being on the back foot from the off. He was read back a selection of the sixth-form-level, boooooooo to America, NATO is an imperialist conspiracy bollocks spouted by Corbyn over the years.
Its bloody tragic! He's an absolute yawning open goal for anyone who wants to have a pop at him and the labour party. Whatever the subject, theres a multitude of nonsensical ill-thought-through, voter-repelling, common-room-level quotes all gift-wrapped and ready to go
There was no way a man with that much of a mountain of toxic baggage should be anywhere near the leadership of the party. He's an absolute liability!
I can't be the only one wondering what the the polls would be looking like with pretty much anyone other than that clown as labour party leader
I can’t be the only one wondering what the the polls would be looking like with pretty much anyone other than that clown as labour party leader
Labour would probably have won the last GE.
Never underestimate the right wing press & their ability to monster a Labour leader
Look at Ed Milliband & the bacon sandwich of doom !
Johnson's past is chequered with dishonesty, lies & unpleasantness that would have seen anyone else a footnote in history by now, but they just love eccentric old bojo !
Never underestimate the right wing press & their ability to monster a Labour leader
Its not been the hardest job in the world for the past few years, has it?
They can phone it in
Its not been the hardest job in the world for the past few years, has it?
Nope. The public just seem to lap it up. Plenty of useful idiots to keep repeating their nonsense as well.
A good article in todays Guardian about the increasingly blurred boundry between politics and journalism
How Boris Johnson and Brexit are Berlusconifying Britain
Britain is used to having the majority of newspapers pitted against the Labour party, and expects every Labour leader to come under disproportionate attack. But the combination of Brexit and Johnson has produced something altogether new: a sense that Downing Street is now a media agency, and Fleet Street a political one.
The people Jez surrounds himself with are hardly helping his public image...
https://twitter.com/Dannythefink/status/1202173608321257472?s=19
(As an aside, met the Fink on holiday this summer. Lovely bloke. Scarily intelligent, and excellent company for a chat over a cold beer)
Labour are scooping up lib dem votes
Yes they are. Last time that happened, it gave the Conservative party lots of seats. It all depends on how that pans out in very different seats in different parts of the UK. Hopefully it’ll mean Labour keep a reasonable seat count… but it’s also likely to give the Conservatives a majority of seats.
The people Jez surrounds himself with are hardly helping his public image…
You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader chose a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communist as an advisor. That’s what I’m doing.
Vote Labour. Ignore Murray.
All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory's. What seems to be helping is they're specifically targeting some truly horrible Brexiteer bastards like Dominic Raab who represent remain-voting constituencies.
And hope that there aren't enough complete dimwits like the focus group on channel 4 news the other night - former labour voters who are going to vote for Boris because of Corbyn (and the Stalin apologists, Putin fan bois and 'Marxist' multi-millionaires that surround him)
Thank goodness for Danny Finkelstein...
After all, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have such an in depth record of the inside story of the events that led to such an explosive rift in the Conservative Party
All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory’s.
Not just the South East. Good chance here in Cheadle!
Sorry for the delay in answering your q's. I'm an old girl although not old enough to vote in the original referendum and am disappointed that we still have the same two parties arguing. I do remember the 3 day week, the miners strike, power cuts etc. and sincerely hope that we won't return to that at any time in the future. We've not moved forward as a United Kingdom although there has been attempts at new parties being formed. Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.
Cameron should never have been allowed to offer a vote to the public on a simple "yes" or "no". I don't know whether any Tories objected to this but it was utter stupidity and shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
Moving on to the EU itself, I want to see a pared back EU with trustworthy info given on costings for each part. Yes, it's definitely good for simplifying trading and don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe. I believe we should be making our own decisions instead of kowtowing to Brussels and that includes butting out of some issues.
I'm not "thick enough" to believe figures written on a bus nor believe Tory rhetoric but the bottom line is that some of the money we're contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. It's horrific the numbers that are losing their lives each year and there is much work needing done to offer these youngsters a future, a future that includes employment and a belief that they can contribute to society and indeed be a valued member. A start would be to restore funding for youth workers and youth centres, these should not have been axed due to austerity.
Really, I believe that many are thoroughly disenchanted with politics and all the lies being spouted by politicians resulting in unconsidered voting, if they can be bothered in the first place that is.
One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. It’s horrific the numbers that are losing their lives each year
Have you seen the good work being done in Glasgow - still in the EU and the UK?
but the bottom line is that some of the money we’re contributing to the EU is desperately needed in the UK. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.
pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs (<1% of GDP)
Thanks for posting CG in the face of such scathing comments earlier. I'll try to be as nice as possible, but I would like to discuss.
I'm posting my response on the existing EU ref thread so as not to de-rail.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1905/#post-10945344
You can only vote Labour by choosing to forget that the current leader
choseis a millionaire anti-European pro-Soviet Communistas an advisor.
This is the problem for Jezza. They're not just advisers ,they're fellow travellers. He shares their politics and their world view.
One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.
That's not gonna change, Brexit or not, if Tories keep power. They don't care, and even when they do they have no idea how to fix it. They think simply locking everyone up who acts a bit shady is going to solve the problem.
What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe.
So how about leaving THEN if we don't like it? Or simply vote against it, or use our veto. It seems at the moment, like the "EU army", there is very little support for the idea amongst member states anyway.
pretty much every single economic analysis, including the governments own! shows that leaving the EU leaves us less well off, by considerably more than EU membership costs.
Current GDP is about £2 trillion. Net cost of EU about £10 billion (about 0.5% of GDP). My tax return from last year shows it cost me, personally, £64. Estimated loss of GDP post Brexit is 3-4%, depending on whether you use independent (lower figure) or government's own estimate from 2018 (higher figure) in perpetuity. That's a loss of £60-80 billion per annum.
Deduct saving through not paying EU membership = £50-70 billion per annum. So where does that extra money to combat knife crime, support the NHS, etc. come from?
So where does that extra money to combat knife crime, support the NHS, etc. come from?
Taxes. The same place all government money comes from.
@slowoldman, I'll be doing my bit with the tactical voting here in Cheadle as well. Hoping the Labour candidate rocks up so I can ask him why he doesn't withdraw to help kick Mrs Robinson out...
Taxes. The same place all government money comes from.
Exactly, so not from saving the EU membership fee.
One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority.
If it were middle-class white kids in leafy suburbs getting knifed then they'd plough resources into it and stop it tomorrow. But it's not, so they won't.
Thats not EU priorities, those are Westminster priorities. They literally couldn't care less about black kids getting knifed on sink estates. Just like they collectively shrugged after Grenfell. They don't give a toss.
Whats mental is that its the EU has taken the money given to it by the UK and effectively redistributed it to the poorer areas of Britain that Westminster doesn't even acknowledge exist, let alone fund. Built stuff for the people who don't matter to our own MP's.
Which is why it absolutely baffles me that deprived areas, covered in infrastructure bearing plaques 'funded by the EU' voted to leave. Do these people actually believe that the money no longer given to the EU is going to miraculously find its way to them instead? Not a cat in hells chance! It'll find its way into the offshore bank accounts of their rich mates, one way or another
There was no way a man with that much of a mountain of toxic baggage should be anywhere near the leadership of the party. He’s an absolute liability!
Momentum needed a puppet, and he was the easiest target for them to stick their hand up inside.
The same place all government money comes from.
Not always. Governments can make money from state-owned businesses. That's why Norway is so rich - they kept their oil business and invested the profits, instead of flogging it off. So now the country is rich instead of some private individuals. Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?
Really, I believe that many are thoroughly disenchanted with politics and all the lies being spouted by politicians resulting in unconsidered voting
It would appear that you are one of the unconsidered voters. The things you want to be better have absolutely nothing to do with being in the EU and all about the UK government.
Even if we were financially better off out of the EU the money won't be spent on knife crime, giving people better futures etc,. That could be done right now if a government wanted to do it.
Tell me again why nationalised industry is such a bad idea?
Because not not every country has huge oil reserves?
It's the same reason Scottish Water does well; they have a ridiculous amount of product that falls from the sky every day
I want to see a pared back EU with trustworthy info given on costings for each part , What I do have a problem with is that at some point in the future we could end up with a United States of Europe. I believe we should be making our own decisions instead of kowtowing to Brussels and that includes butting out of some issues. One issue I feel very strongly about is knife crime in London and this needs to be a priority. A start would be to restore funding for youth workers and youth centres, these should not have been axed due to austerity.
Thanks for explaining your reasons for voting brexit, Very good, i can now see you have entirely valid reasons for leaving that you can hold up to the highest scrutiny..........if you are homer simpson that is, otherwise your explanation is nothing but blah....blah...word salad....some more unsubstantiated guff, etc...etc..... Not one of your issues can be laid at the door of the EU, well done for outing yourself as easily led/persuadable/gullible though.
I am a Brexit Remainer living in an overwhelmingly Remain constituency. Hilariously we just had the local Conservative candidate flyer through the door. The first line states 'this election is not about Brexit'. Guess he knows what a hard sell his party's commitments are around here. Hasn't he read Boris's memos?!!
I think koldun's response to cinnamon_girl (on the other thread) is a better one than that of somafunk.
As Molgrips has quite rightly moved this discussion to the other thread, I've replied likewise.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1905/
It’s the same reason Scottish Water does well; they have a ridiculous amount of product that falls from the sky every day
bobbins
before it was nationalised it was less efficient than England's system, now it cleaner, cheaper & less leakier than rest of UKs!
Even if we were financially better off out of the EU the money won’t be spent on knife crime, giving people better futures etc,. That could be done right now if a government wanted to do it.
Remind me again, how many billions has brexit cost us already, with the square root of jeff all to show for it? Must be a few hospitals and coppers worth. And we've not left yet...
binners
Subscriber
All that matters from the Lib Dems perspective is that enough people vote tactically in winnable seats in the South East to take seats off the Tory’s.
They're running hard in my seat, 100% positioned against the SNP - literally got a flyer through the door today with a dodgy graph (of course) based on the EU elections suggesting that "last time" they were second and the tories were 4th, so you can safely vote lib dem instead of SNP.
Actually, "last time" the SNP were first, the tories only 2000 votes behind, and the lib dems got 4%.
This as I mentioned is Joanna Cherry's seat- so they're running against one of the most important remainers, who is part of the biggest remain party, with a campaign that will see them be 4th, just conceivably 3rd, but might be enough to flip the seat to the Tories.
This is a seat that tactical voting could make bombproof safe, but they've chosen instead to do this mental bullshit. Like I say, it's nice to think that it's remain first and foremost for them but it's clearly not.
before it was nationalised it was less efficient than England’s system, now it cleaner, cheaper & less leakier than rest of UKs!
Although, amusingly, it's not good enough to supply the Scottish Public sector:
In 2015, the Scottish Government chose Anglian Water to provide water management services to the public sector in Scotland in a £350m contract.
Because not not every country has huge oil reserves?
Nooo.. obviously.. but the wider point is that a government can manage industrial resources for the benefit of its citizens... So if a business is profitable it can actually help the country no?
but the wider point is that a government can manage industrial resources for the benefit of its citizens…
Not quite true.
A responsible, competent govt can do that. The shower of crap we get (and are likely to get again) in this country I wouldn't trust to run a bath.
And that includes Tory, Labout, SNP and all the 'alternatives'. All are twunts of the same kidney
Bottom line is that we need a new system whether that be proportional representation or something else.
@c-g there was a referendum for that. It was defeated. The govt you get is therefore the govt you deserve.
Or something.