boomerlives
Subscriber
Momentum needed a puppet, and he was the easiest target for them to stick their hand up inside.
Yes, such is the power of Momentum, that despite being formed after Corbyn became leader of the labour party, they reached back in time and made it happen. Momentum are a reaction to Corbyn, not the cause.
There's just something about Momentum that seems to suspend disbelief. This is barely the most ridiculous thing I've heard about them despite being demonstrably false. As if 40000 lefties could take over a political party of 400000 people- getting 2 lefties to get their shit together is hard enough, getting 20 out to protest outside a Barclays is miraculous. But they're treated like this unstoppable force. I guess some people want a bogeyman? It's like those right wingers who still think their £3 vote made a difference, when actually it just subsidised the Labour party.
does anyone know if it's possible to get a tactical vote flyer for your window?
I want to put one up to show i'm tactic voting, to encourage others. Not seen any anywhere. i see labour and lib-dem flyers in people windows, and think another flier next to it saying "i'm Voting tactically" would help the cause.
(the cause being to stop Boris) ;D
Not quite true.
A responsible, competent govt can do that. The shower of crap we get (and are likely to get again) in this country I wouldn’t trust to run a bath.
Yeah, when you hear all the vitriol aimed at our governments it's a bit of a stretch to claim in the next breath they'd be just great at running an extra load of businesses. Especially since their like tried for decades and utterly ****ed it up.
As if 40000 lefties could take over a political party of 400000 people
They have. They have a majority on the NEC and changed the rules to reduce the number of nominations required from the PLP for new leaders. That's it. Game over. They've taken over.
Not quite true.
A responsible, competent govt can do that.
Yeah that's my point. A government CAN run a business well and for the benefit of the people. It IS possible, despite what Tories would have you believe banging on about 3 days weeks etc.
Yeah, when you hear all the vitriol aimed at our governments it’s a bit of a stretch to claim in the next breath they’d be just great at running an extra load of businesses.
Indeed, that's why I didn't say that. I said A GOVERNMENT COULD, not that any of the prospective candidates necessarily will. Why does no-one read properly on this thread?
It's a good thing to aim for, in my opinion, that's why I'm voting for a party that wants to try. If we don't keep trying, we'll never succeed. After all, private industry gets to keep on trying, failing, and trousering all the cash doesn't it?
Especially since their like tried for decades and utterly ****ed it up.
Also, that was FORTY YEARS ago. It's not the same people. And the proposals aren't the same.
Not only that, but neoliberalism is actually failing now too so why not direct some vitriol at that too?
See what I mean?
I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio...
HOLD ON A MINUTE! To the gulag with them, perfidious right wing MSM scum!
but neoliberalism is actually failing now too so why not direct some vitriol at that too?
I have 🙂
It's a complete clustercuss from one end to another; side to side
I see the Staggers leader is fully supportive of the glorio…
They seem to be voicing the concerns of a huge chunk of the country, by recommending no one, and hoping Boris doesn’t get a majority.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/election-2019/2019/12/leader-britain-deserves-better
Vote for whoever can stop your seat returning a Conservative Brexit Party MP… whether that be an ex-Conservative independent even if you’re anti-Tory, a Labour Candidate even if you don’t trust Corbyn (he won’t get a majority anyway), a LibDem candidate even if Swinson makes you want to bunk off school, a Green candidate even if you consider them lefties, an SNP candidate even if you want Scotland to stay in the union… vote to stop your seat from helping Johnson get a majority. That’s all you can do, and all that matter this election.
I have 🙂
It’s a complete clustercuss from one end to another; side to side
Not sure I agree. Neo-liberalism is going great. The EU and the USA are thriving. The bits of China that are economically succesful are the places that are permitted liberal economics.
Even Bennites (Corbyn/MacDonnel/Abbot) accept that we should stay in the EU now. Neo-liberalism has totally won the argument.
What?! You mean there's going to be No Independent Socialist Republic of Grand Brittania after all?
I've bought a comradely hat and grown a little beard and everyfink
am just wondering how to vote atm as unfortunately when i go on the tactical voting sites it says that where i live (devizes) is a safe tory seat 😟.
am thinking labour is the only option for me to vote as lib dems wouldn't have enough chance where i am.
apologies for not reading this thread before (it is er quite large now at 110 plus pages) but i definitely do not want to vote tory (or ever have) especially with all the **** that is happening now.
i will keep on looking at the tactical voting sites up till voting day to see if any change.
thanks 👍
Who came second in 2017, who came second in 2015 ? If they were second comfortably then go with that. In my case that is Labour in a safe Tory seat. They haven't got a chance in hell (Tory 66%, Labour 20%) and I am tempted to vote Green which is who I support so at least they get another vote in the big scheme of things.
Just checked Devizes and very similar to my position.
Although, amusingly, it’s not good enough to supply the Scottish Public sector:
Who do you think is collecting, cleaning and distributing the water?
thanks Kerley will do that 👍
What?! You mean there’s going to be No Independent Socialist Republic of Grand Brittania after all?
I’ve bought a comradely hat and grown a little beard and everyfink
What in the name of Jesus H Corbett are you blathering about now?
does anyone know if it’s possible to get a tactical vote flyer for your window?
I want to put one up to show i’m tactic voting, to encourage others.
If you put it in your window, it's going to be seen by people in your area, who have the same voting choice as you. So say WHO you're tactically voting for - for tactical voting to work, all the tactical voters need to have the same view about which party has the best chance of defeating your disliked party.
PS - don't do that if you're voting tactically because you want the Tories to win a majority.
fUlLy cOStEd...
https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1202183745169690624?s=19
Also, when TF is Johnson going to go before Andrew Neil? I mean, it couldn't be as bad as Corbyn, shirley? So, what's he got to lose?
The trolls running the Conservative online campaign have final withdrawn the rule breaking ads using (and misrepresenting) BBC footage. Considering the people working with them, I’m not convinced their aims aren’t as much about further eroding trust in the BBC as they are about winning votes. I’m seeing the Neil thing in the same light… avoid a difficult interview and damage the standing of the BBC in one highly dodgy move. Shows the BBC who’s boss. Classic Trump/Putin play.
Not sure I agree. Neo-liberalism is going great
It's going great for a select few which gets smaller and smaller over time.
That's the nature of it.
We wouldn't be entertaining the possibility of a socialist government if it was going great.
Neo-liberalism is going great. The EU and the USA are thriving.
You what?
If you look at GDP then sure. If you look at how the economy benefits the majority of people living in it, then it's a total failure. The rich are getting richer and the poor relatively are getting poorer. Is this your idea of 'going great' ?
The only reason you could think that is if you think the poor deserve what they get. Which is flat out wrong, and insulting to millions of hard working yet poor people.
We wouldn’t be entertaining the possibility of a socialist government if it was going great.
I’m afraid most people aren’t Rone. Well, not to the degree being offered at this election. I’m all for it… the British Public are not. “Not the Tories but not advised by far left communist millionaires” is what’s required to get the consent of the public for more left wing policies this decade. Improve and reform, not revolution. Might be boring, but might also win public support.
We wouldn’t be entertaining the possibility of a socialist government if it was going great.
One tiny country in the entire world. The EU's not, the USA is not, even China abandons state ownership in the places it designates as places that are going to economically flourish.
The strong trend is away from socialism, not towards it.
One tiny country in the entire world. The EU’s not, the USA is not, even China abandons state ownership in the places it designates as places that are going to economically flourish.
The strong trend is away from socialism, not towards it.
You are the most astonishing mental gymnast.
Many countries in the EU is already democratic-socialist. China is moving in from hardline communism towards a middle ground. Seems reasonable that we could also move in towards the middle from the right.
Politics is a spectrum. So, too far left is bad (China), too far right is also bad (US, UK), but good is between those two (democratic socialism). So yes to private enterprise, but with state oversight so the rich and powerful don't take the piss (USA and potentially the future UK).
Very much what molgrips says, certainly re. EU countries.
re. EU countries.
EU is solidly Neo Liberal - it's a neo-liberal club for rich nations. They're making it compulsory to allow private train firms on networks. The whole thing exists to deregulate trade. Why do you think lefties hate it so much? Greece. Not one EU member has an NHS. Christ the TTIP had all my socialist friends going mad on FB. The markets love it. The EU bans state owned monopolies & prevents many subsidies.
Brexiteers aren't arguing for leaving because it's too socialist. Quite the opposite, if Labour win this election and go down the Brexit route it's going to make their policies (manifesto and otherwise) far easier to carry out.
The one good thing that's come out of Brexit is literally everyone now agrees that the liberal economics of the EU is good for the economy - Brexiteers accept the case for leaving isn't economic and remainers all accept the case for remaining *is* economic.
I'd be genuinely interested in any credible source claiming the EU is remotely left wing, can you find one? [1] It's a free marketeers dream and it's "helped" some very left wing governments see the light and adopt some pretty fiscally tight policies.
[1] Here's one the other way by way of a trade: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2017/07/lexit-eu-neoliberal-project-so-lets-do-something-different-when-we-leave-it
You know what happened to TTIP? Yes?
I’d be genuinely interested in any credible source claiming the EU is remotely left wing
Economically? Probably not. But at the same time, people are complaining about all the additional rules and regulations - so that makes it 'large government' doesn't it, which would make it a bit more left wing. All that environmental legislation (one of the things I'm keen on) is not neoliberal.
Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union?
Social Chapter?
Are they neoliberal?
Tory governments opt out of such EU measures because they are not neoliberal? No?
You know what happened to TTIP? Yes?
Not in any detail. AFAIC they couldn't get agreement from all the member states so it went 'No deal'.
TTIP wasn't really that popular with socialists:
Another example of the neoliberal essence of the project is given by the secretive negotiations for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), a free trade deal the EU is brokering with the US. TTIP will further prise open sectors such as education and health to the multinationals, and equalise environmental protection and workers’ rights at the lowest level across the two regions.
http://socialistreview.org.uk/404/eu-referendum-should-we-stay-or-should-we-go
(Worth reading the whole article.)
Oh yeah, the Labour party campaigned against entry in the 70's and campaigned to leave in '83. Hard to see why the Labour party in its clause four days would have wanted to avoid membership if they thought it was a decent socialist enterprise!
Anyway I've googled and I can't find anything that suggests the EU is anything other than Neo-Liberal, and not remotely socialist. It's all about private ownership, fiscal rectitude, liberalizing trade and providing a cheap workforce to the wealthier nations. Remainers will tell you these are all good things, but they aren't socialism, they are the diametric opposite.
Unless someone provides a link that credibly argues the EU is opposed to Liberal economics I'm not going reply on the subject of "is the EU neo-liberal" again. [1] I feel I'm wasting my time having to make the case that an organization that exists to liberalize markets isn't a bastion of liberal economics. 😀
[1] Ovbs I'll be posting on the thread, I'm addicted
Unless someone provides a link that credibly argues the EU is opposed to Liberal economics I’m not going reply on this topic again. I feel I’m wasting my time having to make the case that an organization that exists to liberalize markets isn’t a bastion of liberal economics.
LOLZ and Bojo wont have another drink til Brexit is done.
(Bet you do post)
Unless someone provides a link that credibly argues the EU is opposed to Liberal economics I’m not going reply on this topic again.
No one is ‘opposed to Liberal economics’.
TTIP didn’t happen because the USA neoliberal measures in it were rejected by EU countries.
Read up on Social Chapter and the EU regulations and standards that the neoliberals have fought against all the way.
Got a flyer from the Tories that is pretending to be a womans weekly magazine. Completely immoral imo.
Only the return address tells me its from the Tories. (& all the bullshit content obvz)
Unless someone provides a link that credibly argues the EU is opposed to Liberal economics I’m not going reply on this topic again. I feel I’m wasting my time having to make the case that an organization that exists to liberalize markets isn’t a bastion of liberal economics.
(Bet you do post)
That's awkward. When I said topic I didn't mean thread. Post edited for clarity. 🙂
Drug prices, UK vs USA
💉 Insulin
🇬🇧 £16.61 🇺🇸 £215.30
🔺 1300%🥜 Epipen 300mg
🇬🇧 £52.90 🇺🇸 £523
🔺 1000%💓 Statin 10mg
🇬🇧 £0.46 🇺🇸 £4.50
🔺 980%Trump and his Big Pharma cronies want to put up drug prices in our NHS.
As we head for polling day, remember what’s at stake.
— Mike Amesbury Labour Candidate for Weaver Vale (@MikeAmesburyMP) December 4, 2019
Thanks okay though. All the 'muricans get together and rent a coach, drive across the border to Canada, buy their insulin and the coach drives them back.
All we need is boats.
EU is solidly Neo Liberal
OK then.
Thanks okay though. All the ‘muricans get together and rent a coach, drive across the border to Canada, buy their insulin and the coach drives them back.
All we need is boats.
Hmm...
America is slightly bigger than the UK, a couple of busses isn't going to cut it, you need large shipments of the stuff on a regular basis.
Enjoyed Maitlis scratching the inside of her nostril on Newsnight just now :-0
Johnson on Preston.
Lots of good questions.
No answers.
Normal repeating of catch phrases over and over again.
And again.
And…