[Closed] 2019 General Election

A lot more profitable for Farage though.

Well of course.. He's never been interested in politics, just money. Look at his attendance record as an MEP.
Maybe that reality is now starting to dawn on his flock.

I bet they're shocked to their very cores to discover that Nigel wasn't being entirely honest with them, has put his own interests before everything and everyone else, has taken the money and the peerage, sold them all down the river and run off to count his money in the pub.

I know I certainly was

Cheers!

Hard left would be nationalising without compensation. Centrist is buying back or waiting until the franchise expires and not renewing

In terms of trains, just don't renew franchises when the terms expire. Trains are an absolute disaster in the UK.
From a consumer perspective it's rediculous to have to ponder what sort of ticket to buy, and consider split ticketing and catch a particular train from a particular company etc.
You should just be able to buy a ticket from A to B, and that's that.

Trains are an absolute disaster in the UK

They are in parts yes. But those of us who are old enough to remember British Rail, and are prepared to take their rose tinted glasses off, will remember it was even worse back then.

Outofbreath - we've done this to death as you will remember. No-one says anything about 'confiscating' except you and presumably other anti-Corbynites.

I think I'm becoming somewhat besotted with Angela Rayner. I'm now convinced she'll be the first female labour PM, either taking over from Corbyn if he wins or at the next election if he loses. It'll be quite a story too, an ex-nurse, teenage single mum who left school at 16 to PM.

"But the star turn was Rayner, who talked about the importance of adult education in her own life, after she left school at 16 to look after her son. Under Labour’s policy, she said, “whether you left school with no GCSEs or 10, your ability to pay or your willingness to take on debt will not determine whether you get the education you need”.

She skewered politicians’ habit of parroting the idea that vocational qualifications are as important as academic ones, or that the UK can simply copy Germany.

And she had another nice line that “poverty is not just about being penniless, it is about being powerless”, because workers often don’t have the opportunity to train."

I reckon Farage will also back down in a week or so and announce they will not field candidates in Tory/labour marginals, on condition that Boris goes full crash out/hard Brexit

And that’s labour well and truly ****ed!

You mean in Labour marginals.

I don't think so in all cases - at all. In fact that puts us back to 2017 really.

(And if your scenaorio plays out then it's up to remainers to step up and Vote Labour. Which there is loads of right?

Am I missing something? all the polls are suggesting a lower % of the vote for the tories than in 2017. so how does this translate into a huge majority for the tories?

What am I missing?

A lower % of the vote for Labour.

That and the Tory vote dropping in some areas, and rising in others. Some of those areas where it is down, it has to drop a lot for seats to be lost (thanks Lord Farage for helping with that), but in some target areas they don’t need that large a local swing to win seats.

Remember, this is hundreds of individual elections, yet we, and the press, try to reduce it to national polls and swings… which doesn’t really work.

Am I missing something? all the polls are suggesting a lower % of the vote for the tories than in 2017. so how does this translate into a huge majority for the tories?

What am I missing?

You're not. I think it's the gulf between the two currently that has people twitching.

And the incorrect assumption yesterday that BXP being stood down in already 2017 Tory seats led to a majority. This wasn't interpreted correctly in my opinion. I knee-jerked too.

If anything we move back to a 2017 scenario more cleanly with the Left/Leave possibly struggling to vote for Tory. Or being split between Tory and BXP. All depends on those marginals and what BXP do next I guess.

No predictions from me yet!

but in some target areas they don’t need that large a local swing to win seats.

Not being awkward but which ones? For instance here in Bassetlaw we've got a 5000 maj with Labour. We have BXP and a CON candidate - do you not think the leave vote will be split across those two leaving a stronger Labour majority? I'm torn. Not sure yet.

Same in neighbouring Mansfield but that changed to Tory in 2017. Add in BXP and it splits the leave vote.

But those of us who are old enough to remember British Rail, and are prepared to take their rose tinted glasses off, will remember it was even worse back then.

That trains were worse 30years ago should not be a surprise should it? After being run down by Thatcher.

where there is a proposal to confiscate 10% of mid to large companies shares?

Not in the UK, that’s for sure.

So you've missed Labour's proposal to put 10% of the shares all companies with more than 250 workers into the ownership of the workers?

That trains were worse 30years ago should not be a surprise should it? After being run down by Thatcher.

That, and technology and it being thirty years ago.

Lots of confusing information about majorities.

It's FPTP. The tories need circa 321 seats for a majority.

The tories will probably and up with more seats than Labour, but it will only be about 290-300 in my uneducated opinion.

That's not enough to form a government, it's a hung parliament.

That’s not enough to form a government, it’s a hung parliament.

It's not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.

Same in neighbouring Mansfield but that changed to Tory in 2017. Add in BXP and it splits the leave vote.

If it turned Tory in 2017 then presumably Farage isn't fielding a candidate there?

So you’ve missed Labour’s proposal to put 10% of the shares all companies with more than 250 workers into the ownership of the workers?

Nope, but I haven't seen the proposal to confiscate them which is what some people are terrified of. It simply says 'transfer ownership' in all those links which will likely result in companies having to buy them back. This means that investors e.g. our pension funds will not be dispossessed, which is what many people including Outofbreath are worried about.

As for the idea I am so far left – utter ludicrous ad shows two things. The very poor understanding of what left wing means and the blinkered far right attitudes some of you have

I felt it might be pointless trying to engage sensibly with you. I was right.

In what way am I far left? go on please tell me 'cos all my lefty friends disagree.

Politically I consider myself to be a dark green

It's fortunate that Wayne Bayley still has his original cult to fall back on in these troubled times.

If it turned Tory in 2017 then presumably Farage isn’t fielding a candidate there?

Ah - good point. Might have independent candidate trouble.

^^^Gowrie: what does this mean?

That, and technology and it being thirty years ago.

And the cost of keeping all those branch lines open so people could, you know, travel without a car (not that i disagree, the service was still bad).

It’s not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.

Indeed. Who are the tories going to be able to get on board? Ten more DUP? The brexit party wants a stone cold suicidal brexit, unlikely.

An informal coalition between libs, lab, green, SNP is the way to go.
I'm not aware that a coalition has to be as draconian as the Liberal Democrats /tory coalition where they were basically forced to vote in line with tory policy, which as we all know was a disaster.

The big question is, is corbyns Labour prepared to work with other parties (not tories or Bxp).

That's the sticking point. The Labour Party need to get off thier high horse and start being cooperative.

Might have independent candidate trouble.

Let's hope so. TBH, the electorate seems so befuddled that an independent standing for anything similar sounding would probably get a hatful of votes. Anyone got a spare couple of grand?

As for the idea I am so far left – utter ludicrous ad shows two things. The very poor understanding of what left wing means and the blinkered far right attitudes some of you have

How old are you?
Do you remember the 70's ?

It’s not enough to form a government on your own. You can have coalitions and minority governments.

In theory yes.

In practice nobody is going to do *any* kind of deal with the Torys without a second ref and the Torys will not agree to that. I can't see how the Torys could function as a minority government trying to get Brexit through.

So does that mean Labour would have to take the responsibility on? I'm not sure that The Libdems or SNP would be keen on propping up a fiscally incontinent Labour party.

We might see a government that exists long enough to hold a second ref and for no other purpose. We might see more chaos.

Like everyone else I see no evidence for this 90 seat Tory majority and all the pollsters I've heard interviewed say the seat count literally can't be predicted.

confiscate them which is what some people are terrified of. It simply says ‘transfer ownership’ in all those links which will likely result in companies having to buy them back.

A company being forced to buy back 10pc shares and give them to someone else *is* confiscation. There is simply no slight of hand by which you can take 10pc of something without paying and the existing owner of that thing doesn't have either 10pc less of it or 10pc less value.

The big question is, is corbyns Labour prepared to work with other parties

He refuses to form a coalition with the majority of his own MP's, so I'm guessing not.

To be fair to grandad, everyone else has been pretty belligerent in slagging everyone else off and saying they won't work with them. Any coalition would be a fraught, fractious affair that probably wouldn't last five minutes.

Its a horrible thought but its looking to me like we could be having an election every 6 months for the foreseeable future, while the country remains frozen in this horrible limbo and slowly eats itself

The Labour Party need to get off thier high horse and start being cooperative.

The flaw there is
Green Party doesnt really count.
SNP have made it clear they will work to some extent but it will be focussed on the aim of a referendum.
Libdems have made it clear they will not work with Corbyn and will want him replaced with someone more acceptable to them.
Cant think why Labour leadership arent thanking her for that.

Thing is when you search "corbyn refuses coalition with libdems" you get loads of Jo Swinson refusing coalition with Labour.

Yeah, let’s ignore all the work Watson did with Swinson and others to try and sort some way of working together to beat the Conservative Brexit Party at an upcoming election. The way he was treated (by people inside Labour not outside it) when he tried was quite telling, no?

https://www.google.com/search?q=watson%20swinson

steve - I'm 58 and yes I remember the 70s. dunno whats that got to do with the ludicous assertion I am some sort of hard lefty. 70s labour were not after all

Traits of a hard left position

an elimination of all private capital, compulsory nationalisation without compensation. That sort of thing.

Look at some of the real hard left groups like Scottish socialist party, SWP, RCP. those sort of folk
Point to a sinle post I have made that supports a hard left position? Where is Ernie when you need him - hes a proper lefty! I'm just a wishy washy pale pink liberal in his eyes 🙂

Swinson set demands she must have known that labour could not possibly agree to. No party would or could.

Its as much her fault as anyone

SNP didn't set the same demands - that Corbyn had to go.

Yeah, let’s ignore all the work Watson did with Swinson and others to try and sort some way of working together to beat the Conservative Brexit Party at this election.

The work which ended with a demand that Corbyn should be kicked out and replaced with someone more ideologically suited to the orange book lib dems?
Cant imagine why that didnt get all round cheers.
I do love the Libdems bollox to brexit but first lets get rid of Corbyn.

its looking to me like we could be having an election every 6 months for the foreseeable future,

This.

The rise of the smaller parties means its very difficult for anyone to get a decent majority these days. (And any government with less than a ~25 seat majority is really a lame duck government who can't do any of the unpopular things governments have to do.) Major's majority of 19 was considered completely inadequate at the time. Over the last 10 years 19 is the norm or even on the high side!

Swinson has to say that though. She's mainly contesting affluent seats in the South East where they think Corbyn will requisition their Audi's and mke them drive Trabants, nationalise their Bridge Clubs and force them to declare their allegiance to Dianne Abbott every morning before trooping off to work at the salt mines*

So she has to say that she won't entertain a Corbyn coalition as not to do so would be electoral suicide

*and to be fair, they're probably right

I agree. But to say the collapse of a anti tory coalition is all Corbyns fault is bollox. would any labour leader offer to stand down in that situation?

The reasoning for Swinson saying she won't work with Corbyn has some logic, but then you can't really then blame Labour for not rushing to join an alliance with them after that.

The flaw there is
Green Party doesnt really count.
SNP have made it clear they will work to some extent but it will be focussed on the aim of a referendum.
Libdems have made it clear they will not work with Corbyn and will want him replaced with someone more acceptable to them.
Cant think why Labour leadership arent thanking her for that

Dare I say? A coalition of.....chaos??

Of course, all that 'we won't ever work with them' rhetoric will be right out of the window about 3 seconds after the hung parliament result comes in. Thats when the real horse trading starts

If Labour need support from both a unionist party and a party wanting an independence referendum, yes it would get messy.

The wise thing would be to stick to the promise to have an EU referendum sorted within 6 months, and then have another general election before 2020 is out.

Any hung parliament is likely to result in another general election within a few years anyway.

And that’s probably the best case scenario at the moment, sadly.

The wise thing would be to stick to the promise to have an EU referendum sorted within 6 months, and then have another general election before 2020 is out.

That promise was for a government of national unity not an elected minority government. So there is no sticking to it. It is expired.

A good play would be to get in some electoral reform.

So there is no sticking to it.

I thought Labour had promised an EU referendum within 6 months if they are in government after the election?

I thought Labour had promised an EU referendum within 6 months if they are in government after the election?

Ah sorry I misread it.
I am failing to see though why you think they should then immediately call a GE? What do you see as in it for them?

The children need to learn how to share thier toys.

Parliament is log jammed precisely because certain factions of all parties are refusing to do thier jobs and attempting to grab supreme power.

I suppose one good thing has come of this so far, parliament is functioning as it should by stopping anything too crazy. But the result is paralysis until they start working with each other rather than against each other.