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Can anyone help me with that website you are all getting polls for your local constituencies from? I cannot get it to work for me
If you mean the one that tries to turn national polling data into constituency indicators, I think their model is England and Wales ready only. The main guy is on. Twitter if you want to ask him. ‘flaviblePolitic’, is their handle.
I meant the one on the previous page "democratic dashboard" that folk seemed to be getting polling inforfrom for their local constituency
Or have I misunderstood?
I find it fascinating that both the BBC and The Guardian are now fact checking Johnson in real time and outing his lies as lies.
Never seen this before in UK politics that a politician has such a reputation for lying that everything he says is fact checked like this
Its really not going well for the tories is it.
On a serious note, the mainstream media are really scared that they will be attacked hard by Boris as Trump has done, so they are getting their shots in early and going for blood. Sky appear to be going after Boris as well, Kay Burley seems positively raging these days, I was a bit taken aback after watching Sky News for the first time in a few years. The media has been shaken by the post-truth online world and they are likely aiming to try and counter it, I suspect Corbyn will get his fair share of scrutiny as well.
Instead he’s expecting other parties to sign up to a blind deal with him.
Lets skip you providing some evidence for this claim and get back to your initial claim.
How, exactly, does that make him authoritarian?
As a helpful hint a general feature of someone being authoritarian is them being very clear what everyone has to sign up to.
Dissonance - answer....
If Jacob Rees Mogg was leader of the conservative party, and he selected Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson as his closest advisers – what would be your thoughts on the matter?
please.
As a helpful hint a general feature of someone being authoritarian is them being very clear what everyone has to sign up to.
If you know anything about authoritarian leaders, you'd know that this isn't the case at all. They are experts at hiding their views, gentrifying them for mass appeal and being everything to everyone - which is exactly what Corbyn has done with Brexit.
Dissonance:
"When I use a word," Rayban said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
“democratic dashboard”
I think you’ve misunderstood TJ.
Should Labour stand aside in these constituencies?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1192216570086543366
Dissonance – answer…
Lets do a deal. You provide evidence for your claims first and then I might bother responding to your random hypothetical shite.
Deal?
Yes, they should. If they really want to defeat the Tories, they won't though. That isn't what a true lefty would do.
Lets do a deal. You provide evidence for your claims first and then I might bother responding to your random hypothetical shite.
Deal?
Good dodge.
I'm pretty certain though that you and TJ would be calling JRM a fascist.
Kimbers, the Survation polling shows an awful lot of seats where LibDems jump from distant third to a close second, but there is no chance in hell of any Labour candidate stepping aside in any of them to let the LibDems unseat a Tory. If you’re waiting for that, don’t bother…
Kimbers I ruddy well wish they would
I have been wanting this for a while now. An anti tory pact for a single election on a platform of second referendum and constitutional change. If we had a decent democratic system we would never have another tory majority
I can agree to that though TJ.
What TJ says. He’s 100% right on this one.
If Jacob Rees Mogg was leader of the conservative party, and he selected Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson as his closest advisers – what would be your thoughts on the matter?
I think that his policies would most likely be authoritarian, not the fact that he stood for election.
Good dodge.
Well given your ability to dodge I take that as a compliment. I notice you still fail to support your claims with evidence. Is Johnson your role model by anychance? Just keep lying.
I’m pretty certain though that you and TJ would be calling JRM a fascist.
We have already established though you arent really one for evidence or reality so it comes as no surprise at all that I wouldnt take the same simplistic approach as you would. I assume you are projecting your own failings. I would require a tad more information like, ohh, actual policies and voting record.
I mean a good starting point would be looking at whether someone was voting for the sort of law which sets things up nicely for authoritarianism, dont you think?
I think that his policies would most likely be authoritarian, not the fact that he stood for election.
Do you think for a second, that you would have hard evidence of fascist/authoritarian policies before the election? Or do you think that Jacob Rees Mogg would water them down in this scenario? Would you not suspect that his policies would be authoritarian based on the fact that he chose Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson in this scenario?
Well given your ability to dodge I take that as a compliment. I notice you still fail to support your claims with evidence. Is Johnson your role model by anychance? Just keep lying.
We've already posted some of it (the link further back looking at momentums purges of New Labour), others have posted their thoughts as well. As I've stated, you won't get hard evidence in terms of policy statements because that is not something authoritarian leaders tend to do - unless there is wild populist support for them, which there is not currently for Corbyns Labour.
I mean a good starting point would be looking at whether someone was voting for the sort of law which sets things up nicely for authoritarianism, dont you think?
Seeing as Jeremy, up until now, hasn't had the influence to be able to direct the legislative procedure - how can we know from his voting record whether he is authoritarian or not? He played devils advocate to New Labour whilst he was a back bencher, that doesn't tell you very much about what his actual political views are.
Situation were the only ones that called the 2017 GE right iirc.
But other pollsters have changed their methods since then
I think we can all agree on that.
Getting back to the elections. Anyone else a tad disappointed with Swinsons statement about potential defections to the Lib Dems post election.
Really would have hoped she would have said in any such cases they would immediately seek a by election to confirm that the voters were actually happy they were now voting for a complete different set of policies.
Do you think for a second, that you would have hard evidence of fascist/authoritarian policies before the election?
Seeing as Corbyn has won two leadership elections, his authoritarian policies should be very clear by now. And trying to shoehorn a far right criminal into your attempt at a comparison is very silly indeed.
We have already established though you arent really one for evidence or reality so it comes as no surprise at all that I wouldnt take the same simplistic approach as you would. I assume you are projecting your own failings. I would require a tad more information
Steady on cowboy, what's corbyn's stance on whether we remain or leave?
A simple yes or no answer please.
Really would have hoped she would have said in any such cases they would immediately seek a by election to confirm that the voters were actually happy they were now voting for a complete different set of policies.
Only if there is also an immediate general election if the government policies don’t match exactly what was voted on. And all MPs to face a by-election if they vote against their party whip. In fact, let’s just have one MP in parliament from each party. Or hundreds of robots voting consistently along party lines, with no deviation.
A simple yes or no answer please.
Looks at question.
Looks at demand for a yes/no answer to a question which isnt yes/no.
You havent really thought this through have you?
Seeing as Corbyn has won two leadership elections, his authoritarian policies should be very clear by now. And trying to shoehorn a far right criminal into your attempt at a comparison is very silly indeed.
This shows your bias.
How are Seamus (Mr "The Stalin purges weren't that bad") Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
Only if there is also an immediate general election if the government policies don’t match exactly what was voted on.
Really? You think they are the same thing? Someone changing parties within, say, 6 months of being elected vs every single policy being carried out in that timeframe.
As an aside I do somewhat like the idea that governments should be held to their manifesto promises and elections called if they break them. Although getting that to work would obviously be tricky and only really work in clear breaches of them eg promise not to raise taxes and immediately do so or promise to hold second referendum.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not. Having MPs voting to satisfy their whips, rather than doing what they think is right, is messing this country up. Any kind of “automatic byelection” idea is just about scaring MPs into being obedient to their parties, not exercising their own judgement.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not. Having MPs voting to satisfy their whips, rather than doing what they think is right, is messing this country up. Any kind of “automatic byelection” idea is just about scaring MPs into being obedient to their parties, not exercising their own judgement.
+1
Shock horror, Corbyn supporter in authoritarian outburst.
Well it's not a tough question, or it shouldn't be for someone who wants to lead a country.
But that's not what corbyn is. He's a shadow back bencher at best. He should do the ethical thing and step off if he's not prepared to sit on the potty.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not
Well there are two different things at play here.
The first is the general principle of someone leaving the party they originally joined at a random point. Which I am all for. However lets face it in reality how often do people elect the actual MP and not the party? I would suggest in a very small percentage of the cases and, if I am wrong, then it will be fine since they will just get reelected anyway.
I am not sure why you feel whipping is the source of the problems? After all it doesnt actually have any real immediate effect outside of a very specific subset of MPs. If you lose the whip then you become independent until next election or, as per Labour last set of votes, nothing happens.
The exception is government posts where there is significant financial advantage to staying in line. One of the things which has changed in recent years is the expansion of these roles arguably in order to allow enforcement.
The second part is this very specific case. Someone leaving a party two years in after the party switches position is one thing but saying that they are interested in leaving just prior to an election seems a tad dishonest. If they dont feel they can stay in the party then leave prior not after.
Also note I am not demanding "automatic elections" outside of that hypothetical manifesto scenario which I cant see ever working properly but saying it is the honest thing for a party to do.
If she believes her party policies are good enough to get the votes then she should be willing to have it proved in a byelection.
but saying that they are interested in leaving just prior to an election seems a tad dishonest
Who has said this?
And also, big changes in a party often happen after an election… leaders often change… policies are scrutinised afresh, etc.
Whether you win or not is as much to do with spending as it isn't.
If you can spend a lot, you will win a lot.
First you need to Take Back Control of your Election spend.
How are Seamus (Mr “The Stalin purges weren’t that bad”) Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
Because you are comparing something that wasn't actually said with a someone who goes around starting trouble and is rotten to the core, and probably has a lot more influence to the public that Milne will ever have.
Milne is hardly a hateful character; he was a sodding Guardian columnist for god's sake!
Milne is hardly a hateful character; he was a sodding Guardian columnist for god’s sake!
He has actively gone out of his way to diminish the extent of various soviet purges and claim that the debate around the topic has somehow damaged the debate around the horrors caused by the Nazis (even though this is a very oversubscribed part of history), who in his opinion - should be regarded as the real baddies.
He is also a stooge who's articles often parallel the Kremlins agenda.
Basically a grade A scumbag, the same as Robinson.
He is also a stooge who’s articles often parallel the Kremlins agenda.
Send articles?
He's too middle class to be called a scumbag.
He's nothing like Robinson because he doesn't carry out activism that incites violence or a racist viewpoint.
Look Maria Gatland was member of the IRA but is now a Tory Councillor. At which point do you recognise someone's currently standing as opposed to their past?
He’s too middle class to be called a scumbag.
Classist.
I just got off an exceedingly boring night shift, I’ll argue and try to evidence my point when I wake up in 8 hours - and I’ll also try and be more serious and less obtuse this time.
Wasn’t this the chap that prorogued parliament and who was accused of being an enti-democratic demagogue?
The court ruled the prorogation illegal and undemocratic but I don't recall them calling him a demagogue.
Still, since he kicked dissenters out of the party, surely he is an authoritarian. Whatever that means.
This shows your bias.
How are Seamus (Mr “The Stalin purges weren’t that bad”) Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
It's laughable that you're accusing me of bias. You're inventing a narrative for Corbyn by comparing his advisor to a far right criminal, and have consistently failed to evidence your claim. A sensible person would stop and have a think.
Guys - you might as well give up here. You are being trolled.
Back to discussions of the election.
Can the Tories reset after a very poor couple of days full of gaffes?
Will Labours good couple of days be reflected in polls? Is rather suprising to see labour being slick and professional while the tories flounder about making gaffes and being called out for lies
Johnson is going to have to improve his poll ratings and gain maybe 30 seats for a majority ( going to lose 10 in Scotland and a few to the lib dems and maybe even a few to labour)
It’s probably going to be a bad day for Labour.
One of their long serving MPs has just announced on Radio 4 that:
- he’s not going to stand for election
- Corbyn has poisoned the Labour Party with anti semitism
- Corbyn’s relationship border on being traitor to his own country and that he’s spent his whole career playing the role of an ally to corrupt regimes and terrorists
- John McDonnell is about the same
- Labour’s economic plans will ruin the country - Corbyn will “take every step possible to make the economy sick”
- People should vote for the Conservatives
- Boris Johnson is a more competent leader
Oops
I wondered when this would happen. One of the tories useful idiots in the labour party. who was it?
Are you suggesting he's being stabbed in the back by Watson because the Tories aren't organised enough to stab him in the front? 🙂
Who has said this?
Various politicans according to Swinson.
leaders often change…
Not very often and irrelevant here. The questionmark is specifically around Swinsons claims.
Maybe she did then carry on to say "and obviously this would be a tad odd and this is how I would solve it" but given the dishonest advertising so far I sort of doubt it.