I didnt think it was intentional either, but how can you judge it clearly anway, I guess I just default to benefit of the doubt.
Interesting thoughts on warbs, I imagine his red stole a lot of his head space after so I can see what you mean about getting the technique right.
it would have been a tougher decision for the officials.
Our forum official says it would have been a straight red. Along with an international ref, a touch judge and a TMO. I'm happy to go with that.
Wales looked good yesterday. To look completely in control despite so many errors and missed tackles (25% tackles were missed in the first 20 minutes!) is reassuring and quite un-Welsh. The defense wasn't really up to the usual standard and Argentina made some easy yards but they looked far, far better in attack. I'm certainly not a Biggar fan but he did seem to get the backs flowing far better. The lesser experienced players didn't look out of place either and did very well (besides Lee!). Tipuric and Warburton looked like a good combo and Tips gives you that extra link between the forwards and backs- a bit like having another centre at times. Good to see Halfpenny used in attack and that really seemed to help get outside the Argentina defense. Faletau was awesome too.
I think this difference with Wales with Biggar playing as he did also goes to show what England could be with a 10 with decent distribution. Farrel might be defensively strong and a reasonable goal kicker but he's like the spikey Mike equivalent distubution-wise of fly halves 😀 (OK so Phillips has been playing pretty well recently but you get the point).
Why was Farrel replaced so early? Things seemed to go downhill with the him and Dickson replaced, not to mention the chubby centre's throwing. As other have said the forwards must be distraught all their hard work is in vein as soon as the backs got their hands on the ball. I don't think the forwards as a unit can be criticized and were pretty awesome. What NZ did very well especially early on is use the desire of the English players to smash NZ out of the park in tackles to draw players out, ride a bit hit and put others in space. Using England's individual over-enthusiasm early on was pretty clever and shows why NZ are where they are in world rugby.
Only saw the first half of Ireland but it looked a mess 😀 Lots of individuals, hardly any cohesion in the forwards and the ball thrown out to the backs early and left to fend for themselves- you can't expect Bowe or Kearney to smash through a pair of locks on a regular basis. Bit weird given so many individuals with such potential (or reputations I guess). The positive for Ireland is this now means they will win the 6 Nations following the successful Wales model- "Poor in November, a 6 Nations to remember" 😀
Lawes who has often been a liability was very good yesterday.
What will befall Scotland today?
Can the scots keep S.A. to below 50 points today? I think about 47-15 to the boks
AA, I am with you on the intent/dirty aspect. Bad tackle yes, against the laws yes, warrant a red, probably yes, full intent to be dirty, not really. But I always thought that Warbs was hard done by.
Only watched the first half of Ireland match before swapping to Eng highlights. it was quite a shock to see the score. I blame the shirts.
Lawes seem to be getting a good write up to day. May be fair, but I find it strange that someone with such physical prowess doesn't break more tackles. Sheridan was the same for me. Big strong blokes who seem to go to ground far too early/easily. I thought England would be mashed down the middle but old 36 had a pretty good match in my opinion. Foden was a disappointment for me though.
Shame as someone else said ( was it Duckman?) to hear the the traditional Murrayfields jeering of kickers now being heard at Twickenham. Poor show.
Regarding Lawes size, I was surprised to see that the stats showed that Launchbury is heavier!
I hear that Lawes brother is coming along well, and even bigger than he was at that age(!)
I can't give Foden too much shit, he's being played out of position and outside of a pair of centres who struggled all game.
Warbs wasnt hard done by as the ref got it right. Problem is others often get away with it such as Ferris on Evans.
AA, I am with you on the intent/dirty aspect. Bad tackle yes, against the laws yes, warrant a red, probably yes, full intent to be dirty, not really. But I always thought that Warbs was hard done by.
Probably? You appear to have access to footage or rules to which the ref, touch judge, TMO and our resident level 5 referee don't? None of them appear to say "probably". Intent to be dirty means nothing. You tip a player over drop him on his head (though, fortunately for O'Mahony he didn't come down on his head in this case.) One can talk about intent all one wants. It's a fruitless discussion as in this case, it doesn't matter.
Of course it doesn't matter, like 100% of debate/banter on here Darcy!
As dear old pitbull says, the only person who matters is the ref. Funnily enough I am sure that the same far-more qualified group have access to better knowledge and views on feeding at the scrum, deliberate blocking of chasers, constant offside with kickers etc, runners offside in last weeks try against Wales etc. I will remember not to comment on any of that in future.
Good to see the reaction of the guy carded though. Clealy not a Wendy. Just wipes his nose in the shirt, no backchat and just straight off without dissent or argument.
True it is a fruitless discussion as none of us can influence any outcomes but the consistency of the application of the laws of the game must be as frustrating for the players as it is us fans.
As a_a says, it isn't so much any injustice (or not) on a single incident but the fact so many other similar incidents get very different outcomes. In the Wales game North I think it was completely upended someone, legs up in the air, down on the head and neck yet no-one even so much as mentioned it. Common sense would say there was nothing in it but the law doesn't say so.
On other law related stuff, Phillips put the ball to the second row in half the scrums as did SA last week yet this is supposed to be one of the big crackdowns. I think Phillips only got pinged for it once.
I felt sorry for the Argentina forward who tackled Phillips when he had his hands on the ball and gave away a penalty for offside. Phillips did have his hands on the ball, the replays showed this and the Argentina player said this. The referees reply wasn't to ignore it or march Argentina back 10 for back chat, instead he said something along the lines of "I don't care if he had his hands on the ball, I don't want you taking any chances, don't come round in future"... basically giving Phillips as much time to fanny around as he likes in the future. It would be nice to see some of the referees less involved as personalities but more as enforcers of the law.
In Wales news: Cory Allen looks to have dislocated his shoulder and Scott Williams has foot or toe ligament damage. Henson's phone will be ringing soon 😆
Carter also looks to have aggravated his long standing Achilles injury which can't be good
As dear old pitbull says, the only person who matters is the ref. Funnily enough I am sure that the same far-more qualified group have access to better knowledge and views on feeding at the scrum, deliberate blocking of chasers, constant offside with kickers etc, runners offside in last weeks try against Wales etc. I will remember not to comment on any of that in future.
Of course they will get that stuff wrong occasionally. The ref can't go to TMO for every decision, so those ones will always be up for debate - part of the fun. What I'm pointing out to you is that you can "probably" all you want, but as our resident level 16 official has stated, and the three officials who reviewed it with the help of video evidence, there was no "probably" about it. I can't see why you'd think it was "probably" a red.
Also, the fact that other players have "got away" with it is no mitigation.
Again I agree DD, so let's stop debating any incident and rule infringement in future. You are as correct to "ping" me for the completely wrong use of the word probably earlier, as the ref is to ignore the word of the law at nearly every scrum or kick in open play.
At least you can (correctly) claim the moral high ground (unlike the myopic ref who picks and chooses 😉 )
Even with TMO evidence there is still room for "probably" and opinion whether it be the opinion of refs or fans. Hartley's recent block for the try against Aus was "a block but not quite enough of a block." One of the worst examples would be in the Samoa vs SA spring game the Samoan 15 grabbed the balls of one of the SA's in a ruck, the TMO said this, and the ref when armed with this information gave a penalty. Is that what the laws say? There are countless examples so opinion from all concerned will always be part of it all...
Oh bugger off you big Wendy!! 😀
Edit: that one at thm.
There are countless examples so opinion will always be part of it all...
Tru dat. Just not in this particular case.
The habit of refs referring it to the video ref, watching the big screen and then telling the video ref what to say really pisses me off.
Lacey's yellow card on Tips was harsh imo.
The habit of refs referring it to the video ref, watching the big screen and then telling the video ref what to say really pisses me off.
Totally agree! The ref has the benefit of others to help make a decision so use them, especially if asking for extra help in the first place
If Allan and Williams are broken, christ knows Hook and Beck?... ****....that Roberts Davies Williams and Allen. If Eli is fit we may see North at 13.
I agree a_a. We're not that far off an NFL style review system.
All we need now is an "Unnecessary Roughness" offence. 🙂
Unusual to see Andy Nicoll being so upbeat about Scotland's last performance 😉 My highlight to the rugby weekend starts now....makes someone else (cough) look totally unbiased in his views!!!
If Allan and Williams are broken, christ knows Hook and Beck?... ****....that Roberts Davies Williams and Allen. If Eli is fit we may see North at 13.
As long as they're back for the RWC, does it matter? A lot of the time, injuries allow new players to come through.
What struck me on watching it was the number of times he lifted players in tackles prior to the world cup semi. He has clearly worked hard on not doing this since. In most of the cases in the build up to the semi and the red card another player came in and it changed the tackle. For example in the 1/4 final he creamed OGara, it was only Charteris in that stopped it getting nasty.
Indeed - 2:17 in that video for those who can't be bothered to watch the rest - had Charteris not been there it would quite clearly have been a red card offence.
Well that made me cry! 🙁
Dusty in here to a_a. What a bloke!!
Gosh. Humbling indeed.
As long as they're back for the RWC, does it matter? A lot of the time, injuries allow new players to come through.
we are at the stage where we will have to pick jobbing pro's who will never be good enough
Perhaps, but it'll improve the strength of the squad. More game time for the players who don't usually start.
Time for a rugby music petition? Can we find Scotland a decent anthem and ban swing low, sweet chariot at England matches.
After that sack the Scotland marketing muppet who signed this kit contract. How can anything make England's purple nightmare look good.
Gosh - you expect SA to win easily, but that just looked far too straightforward for them. I mean it was obvious what they were going to do, and they just did it.
Sad to see Van der Westhuizen has motor neurone disease. I thought he was a great player. Expect the springboks will give him a win to watch today. Still more in hope than expectation Come on SCOTLAND!
I have two options; it's our ball, we take it and walk away, match abandoned. Plan b; we are quite close to the bar; a few pints and it won't matter: this is going to go VERY badly for us.
If you want to see a bad tackle check out Georgia Canada brawl on rugby dump 😯 how only 2 were sent off is a mystery.
Oof tough 60 seconds 😆
Ok AN, heres your chance...
Oh no what a let down. I've waited 40m for AN first comment and there wasn't a hint of positivity there.
I felt sorry for the Argentina forward who tackled Phillips when he had his hands on the ball and gave away a penalty for offside. Phillips did have his hands on the ball, the replays showed this and the Argentina player said this. The referees reply wasn't to ignore it or march Argentina back 10 for back chat, instead he said something along the lines of "I don't care if he had his hands on the ball, I don't want you taking any chances, don't come round in future"
I saw this, the argies pointed out that Phillips had his hands on the ball and IIRC the ref said something like "doesn't matter, it wasn't out". In the eng/NZ game the ref had a completely different opinion and called that the ball was out as soon as the 9 put a hand on it. Very confusing.
Wish TJ was here he'd still believe Scotland can win this and go on to dominant the six nations. I miss him.
+1
Laidlaws passing is awful.
Lovely display of footballing skill from Scotland this half 😀
Woohoo here comes Eben.....methinks that him and big Jim will get along great!
Or am I getting them mixed up the nines passing was shit but then they bought on a ten who is even worse.
Not sure about nematodes. The pitch looks like it's mole-infested.
Just seen this apparently Eastmond chucked it in and went home at half time
