[Closed] £2000 for an Old Car! - Seems Like it Hasn't been fully Thought Through - or

I wonder if it is worse to drive round a ten year car or to build a new one in terms of carbon and other chemicals released into the atmosphere?

I believe there are some conditions tied to the £2k trade in value regarding how long you need to have owned, taxed & insured it prior to scrapping it

its a (thinly disguised) economic stimulus

Didn't someone once work out that from manufacture to scrap including all the spares, service and driving inbetween that the jeep wrangler was the most green car, helped a long way y the fact they last so long (or did I imagine it)?

It's merely to boost the car trade, nothing else and they aren't pretending it's for any other reason either.

The car you trade has to have a valid MOT, beyond that I'm not sure.

I wonder if it is worse to drive round a ten year car or to build a new one in terms of carbon and other chemicals released into the atmosphere?

Compare that to the manufacturing techniques required for the so called green cars/hybrids/electric cars. I am not convinced the overall impact on the environment is so green - its more about a way to find alternative propulsion methods.

I also understood that there were condiitons on this to stop trading etc of old vehicles in order to get the trade in value.

This scheme is purely to get people to start buying new cars again but personally I wouldnt go out and buy new for a £2000 discount - the depreciation will still be poor

so the dealers will stop their deals as the government is knocking £2k off the price for them.

Watching the Oz response here $900 for all (£450) to spend just after christmas - mainly went into savings or paying debt off

Up to $21,000 towards a new build house for first time buyers - seems to be artificially inflating the bottom of the market and encouraging lots of young people to take on big mortgages when interest rates are low - ring any bells there

The next one might be public spending but nobody knows

Seems the world over people are throwing money into preserving the current lyfestyle ie
buying a new car every 3 years
replacing tv/furniture every 2 years
keeping house prices above earnings
buying things we cant afford

so now we throw money at the problem because people cant imagine what will happen if we let things fail.

It's all Gordon Brown's fault Mike 😉

£2000 would not make me buy a new car. I don't think i will ever buy a new car.

so the dealers will stop their deals as the government is knocking £2k off the price for them.

Like everyone who came home with a new bike telling the missus how much they saved by buying it...........

it'll follow the same 'cash on the table' priniple as anything else in economics.

Joe (for example) has a banger worth £300 scrap, he wnow wants to sell it to Kay for £2k as thats what he thinks its now worth.

But Kays friend Lee also has a banger and says he'll sell it for £1950, but Kay also has a friend wholl undercut Lee, Mike will sell his banger for £1850, and so on and so forth.................

Net result, the value of secondhand cars wouldn't increace dramaticaly, even if there were loopholes.

Cars that would've scrapped, now have a value - great.

Very desperate.

Budget yesterday. Over 5yrs Labour are going to borrow an addition £1trillion.

Can call them incompetent yet or will someone bring up Thatcher and the Miners?

Anyway - haven't Carcraft and the like been doing similar 'deals' since, like, ever?

'Any old car for £xxxx trade-in'

Hora - you keep editing you figures

You have to have owned the old car for over a year, and it must have a valid mot.

ive got an n reg mondeo estate drives great with all history with it only done 5k a year for last six years . Now a two grand value on it doesnt make me want to get in debt to buy a new one. Just makes me wonder how much a similar replacement will cost when it dies

I wrote 5trillion instead of £trillion- thats alittle bit out!

I take it you're also using the US version of a trillion rather than the British?

BTW - I thought it was £703 billion?

I think sniff have hit the nail on the head here....

[url= http://www.sniffpetrol.com/ ]Sniff petrol linky[/url]

£170billion next year with a further £703b over the next 5yrs

There'll always be people buying new cars so that scheme will increase the volume; £2k off a small car is a nice dent. I bought my current car, a Puma, new but from a car supermarket for seemingly a good price - actually that's 8 years old now so would soon be old enough for the scheme but it's only done 52k and given me no problems whatsoever so would be wrong to scrap it - whatever you may think about Pumas!

The detail I saw is that the government are givin £1k and the dealer is expected to give the other £1k to match. All that will happen is that the dealer will take the £1k he now gives you aginst the car off the deal and so the price to change alters by £1k.
It was originally supposed to be only against certain new cars (green ones, now doubt on the flawed CO2 system) but I've not heard if that is the case.

This has been successful in Germany, in keeping a trickle of car sales going.

Nothing wrong with a Puma

- for a hair dresser.
😀

Nothing wrong with a Puma

I now have a TT - so beware, you ARE on a slippery slope.

😉

For some reason I like Pumas but dislike TTs! Though the recent one looks better. IMO the Puma was the best option for the cash - needed something smallish for living in London but fun for the countryside and spacious enough for bikes and gear - which it is with the rear seats down....

Well, if someone wants to make some mahoney, I have a [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-mazda-323-gxi-15 ]proposition [/url]

Each to there own - no reason to have to like a TT just because you like Pumas. In fact I hated the Puma when it first came out then I warmed to it and loved mine - paid £12k brand new (full spec, 1.7 engine)and sold it 5 years later for £4k which I think is amazing value - especially as I never had a single problem with it either.

MF but it lost alot of money- 8k. Especially after the budget/IMF's annual growth predictions for the UK- if people think its time to go out there and buy a new car with their [b]own[/b] money on unfavourable rates then they are mad.

Ontop of this- housing market- I bet there are people itching to move/buy an investment property thinking the market is now at the bottom. Its going to plateau then BANG (IMO of course).

Everyone just needs to buy a land rover and run it on chip fat.

Not only is it a UK company (ok, owned by Tata now, but built in the midlands), but they last and last and last.

No boy-racering possible and the streets will be quiet at the weekends because people will be fixing them.

willard but they are classed as 4x4's and soon (I bet) they will be excluded from towns/cities and charged at an extorniate VED to get them off the roads completely.

Everyone just needs to buy a land rover and run it on chip fat.

You do know that [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2007/aug/17/biofuelsmenacerainforests ]bio-fuels are one of the main reasons that large areas of rainforest are being destroyed[/url]?

All fine and good if you are re-using the oil from your local chippy that would have otherwise been binned. But if everyone did that we'd soon run out of chippys.

We need people to buy new cars....

First off the scheme in Germany meant you got up to 5000 euros off, and secondly you have to have owned your 'banger' for 12 months to use the scheme.

I for one would never buy a new car as you would loose that £2k the minute you drive it off the forecourt, and I need a car with space inside so a small euro box is going to be no good to me.

You could probably negotiate close to £2k off a new car anyway.

Yes, then I can buy them cheap when they have got bored with them.

Didn't someone once work out that from manufacture to scrap including all the spares, service and driving inbetween that the jeep wrangler was the most green car, helped a long way y the fact they last so long (or did I imagine it)?

Yeah, that sounds familiar... I think people were disputing the figures but the point stands that running one that's already been built is better than building a new one, IF what you're trying to achieve is lower emissions. In this case the green bit is just tacked on the end of stimulating the car industry.

Just a note, the scheme will cover all car types (including small vans) assuming the manufacturers want to play ball as £1000 of the 2000 will come from the manufacturers, according to the site I read?

I've never been able to understand why anyone would buy a new car privately anyway, certainly not unless you're more than well enough off to not need £2000 off.

If less people want to buy cars and more want to buy 2nd hand cars then the prices will get closer together so that there is always a market for new cars.

A 2004 analysis by Toyota found that as much as 28 percent of the carbon dioxide emissions generated during the life cycle of a typical gasoline-powered car can occur during its manufacture and transportation to the dealer.

So ultimately you'd need to be coming from a very polluting car and doing high mileage to negate the new purchase, on a CO2 emissions basis.

Buy a new car =
More work for Dock workers
Shipping/import excise bods
Bank/loans businesses
Transporting drivers/companies
Admin/car showroom sales staff
etc etc

Its a whole industry.

Lets have an election.

Yup, I know biofuels are bad. I'm talking about waste oil.

And the main thing about Land Rovers is that they last... All the ones that I see are old, but still run.

Yeah but can't use waste oil as a strategy - only works for a few.

MF but it lost alot of money- 8k.

I could have got an old banger but it would have (in all likelyhood) have been more prone to breaking down and inevitably have needed more routine maintenance/replacement parts. I am not saying it would necessarily have cost £8k over 5 years, but then I wouldn't have had a nice new car either....

So ultimately you'd need to be coming from a very polluting car and doing high mileage to negate the new purchase, on a CO2 emissions basis.

But part if the motivation behind this, aside from the obvious economic stimulus, is reducing [u]UK[/u] emissions. Most of these new cars will be made abroad, so overall our emissions will be reduced and it will just be those nasty foreign-types that are destroying the world. 🙄

Onzadog-Yep it's true the greenest cars are the most recyclable and the Jeep Wrangler (of major manufacturers) including fuel consumption was worked out to be the greenest. The Toyota was one of the worst due to amount of electronics and that battery which is a recycling nightmare. Our super goverment insists that all minister (below built proof issue) have a Prius, even though Toyota could not(would not) give them CO2 life cost. Prius all marketing and no substance.

I could have got an old banger but it would have (in all likelyhood) have been more prone to breaking down and inevitably have needed more routine maintenance/replacement parts.

Not if you bought wisely? Most decent cars will last up to 7-8 years without any major issues, buy it around the 4-5 year mark and it'll probably have had a cam belt and clutch already, you may need to get shocks replaced but not in my experience. Plus you can buy a better car for the cash and set aside the extra for repairs should they be needed. Friend of mine recently bought a euro-box for ~13K on credit, comes with a few nicities like sat nav, air con etc but ultimately a miserable tin box with no power or comfort. Then one of my other mates rolls up in a 7 year old 740 with cream leather, air con, uber comfy and quiet, LPG converted (£ for £ gets more mpg than the eurobox) that he picked up for £1500. Since then the eurobox has been back for several repairs, under warranty of course, but the BM just ticks along happily. Insurance is a smidge higher, tax is a bit higher, but it cost 11.5K less to buy and is a quality car. While I know BMWs arent everyones taste, I'm just using it to illustrate that "old bangers" dont need to be beat-up fiat pandas that fail every few months to be VASTLY cheaper than buying new and wasting stacks on depreciation.

Still, each to their own- I'm not sure any solution is right for everyone.

Ive got a R Peugeot 306 sat on the drive. I might get it MOT'd then stuck on autotrader. With the proceeds I'll then buy my mates 03 Golf TDI off of him (hes lost the service history)

Our super goverment insists that all minister (below built proof issue) have a Prius, even though Toyota could not(would not) give them CO2 life cost. Prius all marketing and no substance.

Interesting that, as I've just been to a public lecture given by Toyota telling of their whole life-cycle costs for hybrid cars in comparison with normal. On CO2 they're 47% better than a similarly sized petrol auto vehicle, and 15% better than a manual diesel, over a 150k km lifespan, but they're designed and tested (real world) to 400,000km lifespan. While I was never a prius fan, having seen their data I'm inclined to agree they are good for city driving at least.

Not if you bought wisely?

I also knew someone a while back who had a relatively new Beemer but out of warranty. It ws scrapped because the cost to replace the goosed auto box was more than the value of the car.

As you say, each to their own.

If you lot actually read the small print...

£2K trade in for older car until March 2010.

You need to own the car for a year minimum.

It's April now (nearly May!) if you add 12 months to the date now...you wouldn't qualify anyway!

So anyone buying an older car raised in price would have to be thick.

Anyone selling their old £100 car for 2K to the thicko is laughing their heads off.

Always read please.

And if the gearbox on the Beemer goes? Or other major part. An exhaust alone is about £600. Double that and then some for original part. I once saw a price for a full exhaust system for a 7 Series in a BMW garage and it was circa. £3.5k

They very rarely do go, thats the whole point of the option, but even if it did you could still replace the gearbox with the depreciation of a new cars first year and have a nicer car at the end of it.

Buying a whole exhaust system for any car is pricey but bearing in mind that you rarely need to replace any of the front half before 200K miles and I know of 2 5 series on ~200K miles with the original exhaust your argument is pretty poor. Parts prices are higher, but the rate of replacement is significantly lower. Sure one or two models have glitches but thats where buying wisely comes in.

Sure there are individual datapoints but they dont disprove the rule of thumb.

But that is MY point too. An old £1.5k car will have no warranty and is bound to have more wear & tear / reliability issues than a new car. If a new car DOES prove unreliable they almost all have 3 yr warranties.

You cannot possibly know, when buying an old car, if it will be reliable or not.

And I DID say in my OP that an old car will probably be cheaper to run than a new one, but I certainly do NOT agree that an old car is nicer than a new one. Not unless it is concorse standard (which would then mean paying silly money). Otherwise it will look and drive like it is - an old car.

Yes, you don't get something for nothing in life. Second hand cars like the one described above are usually cheap because they are a potential money eating time bombs. I know a few people who thought similar cars were a good purchase but it's ended up costing them a fortune. And also, it doesn't matter how great and well built a car is, it ages and I've never been in an old car which is as nice to drive as a new one.

I've always said I personally wouldn't buy a brand new one as you lose so much money driving it out of the forecourt. And this is what a lot of people think, which is why we've had the interesting situation where old cars have been selling for more than new ones!

My car is about to have it's 10th birthday. Not really sure it's financially a good idea for me to replace it with a brand new one though.

[i]But that is MY point too. An old £1.5k car will have no warranty and is bound to have more wear & tear / reliability issues than a new car. If a new car DOES prove unreliable they almost all have 3 yr warranties.[/i]

Even if you bought all the aftermarket warranties in china you still wouldnt spend/lose as much money in depreciation though. Plus new cars- they always seem to have a long raft of servicing/fluid changes etc otherwise you invalidate your warranty.

[i]Onzadog-Yep it's true the greenest cars are the most recyclable and the Jeep Wrangler (of major manufacturers) including fuel consumption was worked out to be the greenest. The Toyota was one of the worst due to amount of electronics and that battery which is a recycling nightmare. Our super goverment insists that all minister (below built proof issue) have a Prius, even though Toyota could not(would not) give them CO2 life cost. Prius all marketing and no substance.[/i]

[url= http://www.thecarconnection.com/article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth ]
http://www.thecarconnection.com/article/1010861_prius-versus-hummer-exploding-the-myth [/url]

you still wouldnt spend/lose as much money in depreciation though.

But, each to their own ehhh?

There are plenty of quality older cars that drive and handle as well, if not better than, modern cheaper ones and need fewer services and lower parts costs.

As I said though, you have to invest time and effort into the purchase and buy wisely.

An older car doesnt have to be tatty or unreliable - thats a misconception spread by dealers who want you to buy a nice shiny new car. Plenty fall for it.

Ohh whatever, I am bored of this - the same comments are being regurgitated now.

If the government were interested in the environmental performance of new cars, they would have restricted this scheme to cars in VED bands A & B. But they aren't so they haven't.

Its a fair point ransos. Funny how they can be blabbering on about cutting emissions with one hand and then blankly losing an opportunity to improve things (given time) with the other.

Actually if you read the budget, they don't expect this scheme to be good for the environment. It's listed as having a slight improvement on carbon emissions at best, and probably neutral in balance.

So if I've got this right.....

The reason why we're in the doo doos now is because people have been borrowing madly and getting themselves into debt.

And the government have introduced an incentive for Joe Public who's had an old banger now for a year or so to trade it in for a new car and presumably take out a fairly hefty loan for the other £6000+ he/she will need to finance it?

Are people who have old bangers genuinely going to go off an buy a new car?

if i wanted to buy a new car, could i not go and get a tiny tiny bag of crap 2cv, but with a pased MOT, for 150 quid, and trade it in the next day?

My old dear is in the market for a new car.

Can anyone see any pitfalls if I were to purchase the car, utilise this scheme with the banger I own and then transfer the new car ownership over to her once the sale is complete?

Other than the fact that I will no longer have a car of course.... 🙁

if i wanted to buy a new car, could i not go and get a tiny tiny bag of crap 2cv, but with a pased MOT, for 150 quid, and trade it in the next day?

No, as I understand it you need to have had the car registered under your name for a minimum of 12 months and the scheme ends in a year...

The Chrysler 300C is going for £14,000 less than RRP at the moment, although buying a car from a company that probably won't make it into the second half of 2009 isn't very clever.

Also buying a bloody ugly rollsalike is questionable 😀

I quite liked Cameron's retort to this scheme:

The Chancellor told us about his scrappage scheme.

So let me get this right.

You take something that's 10 years old, completely clapped out, pumps out hot air, pollutes its surroundings, and is absolutely ripe for the knackers yard.

What a brilliant idea!

"Are people who have old bangers genuinely going to go off an buy a new car?"

I might. I was in the market for a berlingo or similar anyhow, and they're cheap new. I was looking at say 3 year old ones. But with a discount, and the fact that a new one will have a warranty, can choose the spec I want and get a more efficient engine.... might just make it worth my while (in the longer run) to get a new one. And I can afford to buy new if it works out better for me.

So I plan to go off round a few dealers at the weekend, see what sort of deals they'll do (i know scrappage doesn't start till next month, but I'll get a good idea if it's feasible or not. And I'd buy new now if it was that good a deal...)

£2000??

You could get a bike for that.... 😉

My car is twenty years old, and I've owned it for ten years. It's done 167,000 miles, 112,000 of which are mine.

Last year I test drove a new top-of-the-range Golf, and it was nice, but not even close to £25,000 nicer than my old car.

So I kept it, and I'm glad. Old cars are more zeitgeisty than shiny new motors anyway.

Mmm our old car is about 8 years old and has done a similar mileage to that. It cost us nearly two grand in servicing, MOT and breakdowns recently.