Forum menu
It's going to be a loooooong campaign!
When do we start building the border posts?
Can't we just fix up Hadrian's wall? Bit of razor wire and some claymores should do it.
Failing that just dump a huge pile of deep fried mars bars by the side of the M74 near the border, they'll slam on the brakes, jump out and gorge themselves to death...
Would have to fine you for fly tipping footflaps 🙂 all helping the Edinburgh treasury!
Fly tipping you say, give it a few years under Salmon and we'll have refugee camps stationed all the way along the border and UN planes dropping grain onto the streets of Edinburgh whilst the Supreme Leader of Scotland gorges himself on the souls of his subjects (deep fried of course).
Be a massive toys out of pram moment, on the 19/9/2014, when they realise only the ones with SCO on the back of their cars and stupid little tartan teddies and the rest of the inhabitants didnt bother or voted againtst something called devolution, when evolution hasnt reached some parts of scotlandshire.
The new rUK flag for 19/09/2014
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8373/8576972009_07b019f47e.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/90886684@N03/8576972009/ ]image[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/90886684@N03/ ]piemonster[/url], on Flickr
It's going to be a loooooong campaign!
Can I just vote 'no' now and ignore it from here on in?
wonder if mr salmond has thought beyond the 30-40 years of oil/gas revenue?
wonder if mr salmond has thought beyond the 30-40 years of oil/gas revenue?
No, none.
wonder if mr salmond has thought beyond the 30-40 years of oil/gas revenue?
Biggest potential for renewables in Europe. Yes, I think it's been considered.
What will happen to the union jack?
Not the most pressing issue im sure - but it would look rubbish without the blue
wonder if mr salmond has thought beyond the 30-40 years of oil/gas revenue?
Thet or mr salmon seem to think its their oil and gas, but with a long drill and a pump, its ours here in wales.
So basicly they will have no oil.
I take it you're an SNP supprter project
I suspect he's not got past thinking about the 200' solid gold statue of himself he'll have the slaves build once he's crowned Supreme Leader.
What will happen to the union jack?Not the most pressing issue im sure - but it would look rubbish without the blue
Oh don't worry, it'll still have plenty of blue in it.
It gives 18 months for a petition and relevant legislation for a parallel E, W, and NI vote to detach the jocks from the Union
Footflaps is planning to fry a hell of a lot of mars bars project we will syphon the oil out of your pipeline and replace it with the used cooking oil 🙂
[img] 
[/img]
HOOOOOOOLDDDD......
That's Mel Gibson, here's the real image of William Wallace
[img] 
[/img]
Oh no, wait a minute....
I think Salmon has all the makings of a Mugabe - start of vaguely sane, prosperous country etc. Then go barking mad, round up all the land owners and turf them out - plant mars bars in all the fields and watch the country deteriorate whilst blaming the English for everything...
Mr Mugabe is very unlike fish,
You're just seeing skin colour, I'm looking at the smug git beneath the skin....
Mr Salmond is very unlike Mr Mugabe. For one thing he was democratically elected, and unlike Messrs Cameron Clegg etc his party managed to win an overall majority
Definitely not a skin colour issue footflaps. While Mr Salmond, with a d has many flaws he won a free election fair and square, His party do not intimidate voters nor do they discriminate on ethnic, or religious basis. As for turfing out( some at least) landowners.... I would vote for that 🙂
So quaint, the view that this has anything to do with Salmond.
Take us with you... please. We'll be good. promise.
I prefer to think of him as Toad Face
Well this got mature quickly...
(awaits flaming mars bar barrage- but its ok, being Scottish I'll just gorge myself to death on them, anyone actually tried a deep fried mars bar btw??)
anyone actually tried a deep fried mars bar btw??
Yes, in Sheffield. They're amazing.
Obviously I am being facetious, but FYI Mugabe was democratically elected to power in 1980 - for the first few years things were pretty normal (for Africa).
At the end of the war in 1979, Mugabe emerged as a hero in the minds of many Africans.[3][4] He won the general elections of 1980, the second in which the majority of black Africans participated in large numbers (though the electoral system in Rhodesia had allowed black participation based on qualified franchise). Mugabe then became the first Prime Minister after calling for reconciliation between formerly warring parties, including white Rhodesians and rival political groups.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
Pretty sure if big Eck scrapped the elections and went down that route the rUK would be in with the army asap to [s]steal back the oil [/s] give us back democracy 😉
I enjoyed sampling one the night before 10utb last year in Aviemore.. the seven or eight pints that preceded it probably helped. Not my race though obviously, managed approx 1.20 laps..
Anyway if we can get away from this ad-hominem nonsense, I'll be voting yes. It's a absolute no-brainer.
whatnobeer: Don't have to steal back something when you've already stolen it. http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/01/scotlandengland-maritime-boundaries/
Anyone seen that film Doomsday? 🙂
Thought about this the other day - I reckon it's going to be very close. And that worries me as I've always considered myself British. Born in Scotland but with some English blood, married in Scotland and my mother lives there but spent the majority of my life in Wales and England where I live now. I also sound totally English. If we go our separate ways I think I'll loose my sense of identity.
Interesting link rockplough, I will also be voting yes don't think that will come as a surprise to anyone.
Footflaps I accept your point about Mr Mugabe in his early years as leader of Zimbabwe.
Yes from me also. I've read as much as I can from all sides of the debate and for me it's the obvious choice.
Whichever way you vote make it an informed decision.
everyone get out and vote no matter what you vote for. Don't just sit on yer arse this is not an election, as far as I know this is a unique occasion in Scottish history . .... breathes deeply... Ok am off the soap box now 🙂
as far as I know this is a unique occasion in Scottish history
Apart from 1979, when Scotland voted for independence, but the government didn't like that result to retrospectively changed the rules 😉
Yes from me too. It's about self-determination, we should be able to choose our own government, good or bad.
On a serious note, lets say the first vote fails, but say by just a few %, do you think they'll just keep repeating it until they get a yes? Obviously if they get a yes the first time, they'll not be re-running it again any time soon....
Yes.
Alex Salmond has said there wouldn't be another referendum while he was in power. However, regimes change....
I'll be voting yes. I worry that i'm abandoning England to Tory rule though.
I'm by no means hopeful we'll win, too many people up here seem to be immensely proud of Scotland without having much confidence in it.
And Kenneth Clarke has the gall to warn us against depending on oil?
Bencooper think the 79 vote was for devolution, but either way the 79 referendum was rigged
Despite having a vote, I think I shall abstain.
Not being 'local' and all that. I do hope folk can get through it as best as possible without being dicks about it.
Anyone read Charles Stross's books [i]Halting State[/i], and [i]Rule 34[/i]? His descriptions of an independent Scotland are rather interesting. He currently lives in Scotland, I believe, and has an outsiders view of how things might work out.
This Charlie?
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/10/politics_1.html old blog
I'm very proudly British, and quite frankly don't think that Scotland would be the nation it is if it wasn't part of the Union.
Why?
And what would it be?
don't think that [s]Scotland[/s] the Union would be the nation it is if it wasn't [s]part of the Union[/s] for Scotland.
ftfy
Don't leave us, please! 🙁
If Scotland goes I'll be lobbying for The North to secede. Perhaps we can bring Wales along too and form a United Republic of Everywhere In Great Britain That Isn't Populated By Complete Gits (And Leeds).
That sounds good, just carve off the south east and kick it out to sea.
I thoughy the English purchased Scotland fair and square after the Scots Darien disaster - do they get a refund (disinterested of Wales)
Payment made to the nobles of Scotland at the time of Union was in return for Scotland taking on a share of the national debt of England. I'm sure we could pay it back if we're wiping out our share of the current national debt 🙂
I am a proud Scot who is happy to be in the union. I feel no crisis in identity and like institutions such as the BBC. Unlike many I don't feel downtrodden. The mere mention of Tory, London and Westminster from Salmond has many nationalists foaming at the mouth.
Salmond and many others cite the War in Iraq as an example of a government taking Scots to war against our wishes. Unlike the English who it appears were keen to go to war. Lets not forget that it was a government WE in Scotland voted for that took us to war.
I also don't wish to consider my wifes family in England as foreigners.
I also feel a hint of pity to those that want rid of us. You would be saying goodbye to a great part of the UK. Perhaps there is a sense of jelousy hidden below a veneer of ill informed jingoistic xenophobia.
Labour took us into the iraq war based.. on a lie. Alex Salmond spoke out against the war.
Perhaps we should have voted in larger numbers for such a great man sooner.
I don't doubt he has a bit of charisma. But we are in danger of playing personality politics with the highest stakes possible.
Fair points athgray but don't you fancy trying to do things better than they are now? If the undemocratic house of lords had been abolished and proportional representation been brought in then I might be more likely to keep things as they are. As it is, Westminster is never going to modernise and will continue to drift further out of step with other forward looking nations and will never represent the views of the people who live in Scotland.
I won't ever think of England as a foreign land, we do have a lot in common after all. Hadrians Wall will remain in ruins.
Simples.
All you English buy somewhere in Scotland by mid-2014 and then you can vote for independence. Then move back home. 🙂
And remember, none of us are actually (legally?) English, Welsh, Scottish or NI, we are all UK/British.
In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?
I don't disagree that the parliament in Edinburgh is a bit of a breath of fresh air in relation to Westminster. Perhaps I am being overly hopeful that changes can be made such as the adoption of PR. I still don't personally see that Westminsters faults should be enough to drive a wedge between our countries, which is what I think can happen next year.
I am not sure what Scottish labour position on the Iraq war was, I'm guessing they would have taken the party line from Blair maybe if the government had been honest with us we wouldn't have gone to war that's a moot point now. But I believe all the decisions would have been taken in Westminster. I for one don't think that voting for independence will really affect my friends and family who are not Scottish or living in Scotland. Don't believe it will change the way I think of them. That's probably because I think of myself as Scottish and I don't have a strong sense of British identity.
I also feel a hint of pity to those that want rid of us.
why, after all the years of being blamed for all your woes people get bored and fed up with it all
You would be saying goodbye to a great part of the UK.
why? once you have been screwed over for re-entry into the EU, have your monetry policy decided in London or Brussels, you will be begging for tourists to support your rural economy
the times I have seen it come out are when somebody is trying to claim that XYZ place is wonderful and tied down by the English and usually accompanied by their own version of "jingoistic xenophobia", the usual return comment is "if it's so wonderful why don't you ****-off back there"Perhaps there is a sense of jelousy hidden below a veneer of ill informed jingoistic xenophobia.
personnally I'm agnostic on the whole issue and I think Wales could pottentially benefit when a significant part of the MoD moves south post independance. I don't have a vote. Lots of Scots by birth don't have a vote, lots of EU nationals do have a vote. If it's a tight result it could be decided by non-Scots votes
I'd hope that relations would improve post-independence. With no political points to be scored and clearer boundaries we could have a proper grown-up agreement between two countries.
[quote=athgray ]Perhaps we should have voted in larger numbers for such a great man sooner.
I don't doubt he has a bit of charisma. But we are in danger of playing personality politics with the highest stakes possible.
TBF most of the "personality politics" are being played by the No campaign.
In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?
ask Alex, he has all the answers 😉
Don't personally care one way or the other - i probably wont even notice the difference to be honest.
I would like to know though, how the rest of the UK can be considered a 'rump' when approximately only 10% of the population would be leaving?
Oh, just realised i WOULD notice the difference - we could have our daylight back! 😛
I am not sure what Scottish labour position on the Iraq war was, I'm guessing they would have taken the party line from Blair maybe if the government had been honest with us we wouldn't have gone to war that's a moot point now. But I believe all the decisions would have been taken in Westminster
decisions by the expat Scot Tony Blair and the Scottish Westminister Mp for a Scottish constituency Gordon Brown?
which one of them made the decision that despite Saddam having weapons of mass destruction at 45mins to deployment over half the British forces crossing the Line of Departure wouldn't have the appropriate NBC equipment ❓
[quote=b r ]
In fact, since I live in Scotland, does it mean that if it becomes independent I'm automatically a Scot, or do I need to sign up specifically, or can I keep my UK passport?
It's quite likely that you could end up with some form of dual nationality. Check out the Irish Republic for an example of what could happen.
[quote=big_n_daft ]
I think Wales could pottentially benefit when a significant part of the MoD moves south post independance.What part would that be? The MOD footprint north of the border is much smaller than you must believe.
It's quite likely that you could end up with some form of dual nationality.
the Scottish passport when you open it will have Mel Gibson shouting "you'll never take our freedom" like those novelty cards you get 😉
big n daft
If its a tight vote it could be decided by kids
Why not? They are the ones who will have to deal with the results in the long term are they not?
I'm looking forward to seeing how a late medieval concept will translate into the C21st.
My son is 4 and my daughter is 10 months. I am sure any decision made next year will not affect them?! Do we think we made our best decisions at 16?
What part would that be? The MOD footprint north of the border is much smaller than you must believe.
is is a lot bigger than that in the North west of England or Wales, both areas will be glad of the change in direction for MoD spending post independance
I'm in, where do I sign.
I do feel a bit sorry for many down south, when we go what's it going to be like?
Sorry to everyone in England who wants Scotland to stay part of the union, but it's time to go
is is a lot bigger than that in the North west of England or Wales, both areas will be glad of the change in direction for MoD spending post independance
Would be interested to see some stats on that if anyone has them?
big n daft
If its a tight vote it could be decided by kids
most whom will be dressed like Mel on election day dragging grannies to the polls 😉
Probably not, so its up to the people of Scotland to educate them on the pros and cons...
or you could be as cynical as me and think the yes campaign is banking on immature and unformed opinions..