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I live in Urban Edinburgh. Every day I see cars parked inconsiderately and dangerously. They block cycle lanes,
Is it illegal to park in cycle lanes? Assume not as I see it done all the time (just a painted white line on the road, not double yellows IIRC).
The cycle lane in itself means nothing for parking - but the ones I refer to have parking restrictions of various sorts that are widely ignored.
My road's a case in point. It's not wide enough for two cars if you park properly in the road. Hence there is a convention in the road that we all park on one side, half kerbed
Sounds like the road should be:
a) made one-way only
b) have actual parking spaces painted on the kerb, if there is in fact space
c) have parking banned on one or both directions
or some combination of the above. If it's not possible to use it effectively in the legal manner, then something's wrong. You can't rely on everyone "knowing the rules" psychically.
£100 parking ticket? I wouldnt go anywhere a place that had those. Same with other motorists.
Well done Labour. You utter **** ups. Your meant to represent the people yet you penalise the working man the most.
Edinburgh is a war zone, what with the predatory "Meanies", tram contractors, cone distributors... hell on earth and I really have sympathy for the chippy trying to go about his trade.....
My only private victory was padlocking my motorbike to the towing point on a BMW parked in a solo motorcycle bay in George St. Left a note on his windscreen which was soon followed by a parking ticket, to be fair....
Konabunny
Can and worms. We've had so many consultations on this it's untrue. The road is now becoming so infamous the county council uses it as a reasoning and planning test for prospective roads planners at interview.
It can't be made one way as it is a heavily used bus route, and we can't afford to lose the service in one direction; the bus would have to be detoured a long way away from the road which significantly impacts on the users, including an old people's home / sheltered accomodation further down the road.
Also apparently one way streets are then at risk for speeding as people know there is nothing coming the other way (and children / pedestrians will bounce off)
We could make it one way for traffic but 2 way for buses, except then as above some numpty at some point will either speed into a bus having not noticed that aspect, or people just ignore it anyway because 'if buses can go down there why can't I?'. The same if it was one way at certain times but 2 way out of rush hour, apparently creates more issues than it solves ('but my watch says it's 5 PAST nine')
The closest we ever came to consensus was similar to what you suggested - parking allowed on one side and then bollards on the other to prevent kerb mounters, but that was finally rejected by the council as the bollards are too expensive, and because they need to be positioned 9" in from the kerb it narrow that pavement too much as well.
So the 'convention' continues, and generally does its job.
I love the way councils are trying to remodel their city centres.
It might work in Edinburgh but down the road in Durham etc etc.
No matter how good public transport gets it wont be for another 10yrs or unless we renationalise.
Hora - its nothing to do with Labour - its an SNP suggestion.
I do feel sorry for tradesmen - perhaps there needs to be a better mechanism for them in the cities.
However no one has explained why they should have the right to park on double yellow lines, block bus lanes with parking restrictions, block pavements completely so that peds have to walk on the street and make live more dangerous for cyclists by parking illegally - all of which I see every day.
At the moment people carry on doing this - what is the answer to stopping them? Without effective parking enforcement the cities will just be in permanent gridlock.
Without effective parking enforcement the cities will just be in permanent gridlock.
Or Ghost towns.
However no one has explained why they should have the right to park on double yellow lines, block bus lanes with parking restrictions, block pavements completely so that peds have to walk on the street and make live more dangerous for cyclists by parking illegally - all of which I see every day.
[b]DO YOU STILL CYCLE THROUGH RED LIGHTS JEREMY?[/b]
You seem quite happy to flaunt the law for your own convenience or safety.
So you're quite happy to ignore the law because it suits you...
Bob - I go thru red lights when it is the safest option for me - never for my convenience. The main reason why it is safer in a couple of places is because of illegally parked cars causing pinch points.
I will ignore a law that increases the danger to me.
You still have not explained why you should have the right to park illegally increasing danger to others.
theotherjonv - je-sus christ. my sympathies!
It sounds worse than it is because people know what to do and even those that don't, they follow the lead (when all the cars are half kerbed only a fool would park out in the road)
But if we suddenly started to get ticketed for pavement parking all of a sudden things would start to go downhill.
TJ - I will ignore a law that increases the danger to me
TJ - Illegal parking makes life more dangerous and inconvenient for all
We ignore a law because to follow it increases the danger to others. [i]In this case [/i]Illegal parking makes life safer for the majority, and occasionally mildly inconvenient for a few.
Hence common sense rather than rigid enforcement is the solution.
TandemJeremy, you really need to think of the Orfhan children in Milawi with that sort of attitude.
Everytime you pull a skid through those lights, somewhere, someone in the world a kid dies from the ensuing wind movement from your inconsiderate tyre.
TJ, you just don't get it do you?Its not about right or wrong, its about how Joe Public feels that the very organisations that are there to serve him, aren't.
And we know you don't own a car, so my assumption (like others) is that you live in a nice little town (somewhere in the Borders?), and walk/cycle to work (public sector, or NGO?). You've no kids, and quite frankly you really don't understand, nor care, about how the rest of us juggle busy lives etc.
And to repeat, we are not talking about parking wherever, we are talking about robbery/fraud, because that is what disproportional really is when it is applied by the state.
The thing is the public wants two things: not to be inconvenienced by bad parking, or have their kids put in danger outside schools etc., and at the same time to be able to park wherever they want, whenever they want. It's hardly a money making scheme if it's entirely voluntary.
£100 is indeed a lot of money but it's pretty easily avoided...
That said, a bit of discretion and sensitivity in dishing out the fines wouldn't go amiss. Everyone can come up with extreme examples about hospitals and emergencies and in cases like that you'd hope wardens/councils would be reasonable but I'd guess those are pretty rare. I've not got too much sympathy otherwise.
every day I have my life made more dangerous and less convenient by illegally parked cars
how is a parked car on the pavement dangerous for you on a bike?
I go thru red lights when it is the safest option for me - never for my convenience. The main reason why it is safer in a couple of places is because of illegally parked cars causing pinch points
thats bull, im sorry. why is it dangerous to stop at a red light? thats a saftey feature with the highway code??? If you drive through a red light with your bike and also a car did BOTH would be need a veichle to slow down or change direction if coming along at the same time.
i think £100 is dear but wont stop people.
i lived in london most my life before moving about a bit (country wise).
Its not the few yards of walking its the pain in the arse when i need to go to sort something for 5 mins and im not talking about oxford street or something, that i can go in and out without having to park a million miles away and paying 30 mins for 5 mins actually needed.
SPEED CAMERAS - HAHA JUST A JOKE!
The UK's most profitable speed camera located at the bottom of the M11 motorway near WOODFORD, ESSEX which is reputed to earn up to £840,000 per week, moving in to take out of action a further 29 speed cameras along the whole 27 mile length of the A406 NORTH CIRCULAR ROAD from CHISWICK in the west to BECKTON in the east side of LONDON
so why do they do it.... haha anyone for a holiday?! 😉
AVERAGE SPEED CAMERAS - M1 roadworks, many of times NOONE WORKING THERE!
PARKING FINES - IF YOUR PARKING DANGEROUS FINE, OUTSIDE A LINE **** OFF!
all many examples of a bullsh!t reason to rip people of more money to spunk down the drain of a failing economic country.
Nick
Red lights - I am not talking about blasting through irregardless - I am talking about going thru slowly and carefully at junctions I know where I can see clearly in all directions.
I know 3 junctions I use regularly where if there are illegally parked cars as there often are, then if I leave the ASL on green as I try to pass the illegally parked cars, cars from behind try to pass me in a dangerous manner. If the illegally parked car was not there there would be plenty of room. The road would be wide enough for a car each way and a bike safely but with the illegally parked car there is barely enough room for a car each way.
If I go 5 - 10 seconds early then I am past the obstruction before the cars try to overtake me. Thus it is safer for me to go before the green light than it is to wait for the green light. I only do this when the illegally parked cars are creating the hazard. If there are no illegally parked cars I wait for the green.
As for the more general case - if there is a car parked illegally on the clearway with a cycle lane then I have to pull out into the stream of traffic which carries a danger. if the illegally parked car was not there then there would be less danger to me.
The final point is a road that is the quickest way for me to walk to the local shops - it has a narrow pavement and has cars parking on the pavements each side blocking the pavements completely. You either have to walk up the bit of road left dodging cars or take a detour. Inconvenience at best.
I hope that explains both my position and why the selfish minority of car drivers infuriate a lot of people. Inconsiderate and illegal parking creates danger and inconvenience for others.
Its not the few yards of walking its the pain in the arse when i need to go to sort something for 5 mins and im not talking about oxford street or something, that i can go in and out without having to park a million miles away and paying 30 mins for 5 mins actually needed.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable for you to inconvenience others to avoid a bit of inconvenience to yourself. How selfish
I think certain fines like parking and speeding should be at a percentage of income
They do that for speeding at least in Finland. The chairman of Nokia got collared and paid the world record largest speeding fine ever. Something like 10k euros iirc.
As for dangerous red lights.. I find that hard to believe. If you don't want to be passed rashly, pull into the middle of the lane at the front of the queue then bury it when they go green - that's what I do.
What's missing here is a post form someone sympathizing with wardens, saying what a good job they do and how rude people are to them.
I am never rude: I do usually point out however that, if only they had stayed on at school, how different their lives might have been!
TJ; I think you live at The Shore? Last time I did a job there I had to park illegaly to unload my gear; if you were the customer would you be happy to pay the "serve-me-right fine" of £100 for me? There are whole streets up town with only Residents Parking in them (no unloading allowed whatsoever!).
There is a perception that the Council don't give a monkeys' if most of the businesses in Edinburgh go under and with the parking situation along with the ever more fantastic rules and regulations surrounding work premises, Health and Safety, the Embra Tram/vanity Project et.al. It's getting pretty hard to dissagree with it.
I used to think there would be only Tartan Tack Shops, traffic wardens and banks left working in Edinburgh...well better make that just the first two then...
I do have sympathy for tradesmen as said - however yes I am in the shore area and there is plenty of legal unloading space around me.
But if you were in one of the multitude of residental streets up the town that have No legal loading bays you would in principle be quite happy with the extra £100 on your joinery bill?
I do usually point out however that, if only they had stayed on at school, how different their lives might have been!
That's just unpleasant. They are just doing a job.
There is a grace period of 5 mins to load and unload allowed anywhere - and permits can be obtained for longer periods - but as I have said several times - for tradesmen a better system needs to be found
Right, I need to spend an hour every morning on the phone listening to Vivaldi's I'lljustputyouonhold Concerto..?
It's been made clear to me by wardens that there is no loading time in Residents Bays.
My point was that when the system is unfair then it needs to be sorted before the pricing structure of fines gets any more ridiculous.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable for you to inconvenience others to avoid a bit of inconvenience to yourself. How selfish
is it really? not unreasonable to go somewhere for 5 mins WIHTOUT having to put and pay for my car into a car park?
think thats a little on the harsh side in my opinion. like i said aslong as its not blocking a road or causing a major distubance apart from the odd cyclist who actually has place because cars would also have to pass by.
i think your bike maybe a little skinner than you think or you have HUGE legs lol haha.
Need to sign-off: Got so worked up about it yesterday I had steal a customers anti-depressants today!!!!
Chickenman - yes you cannot unload in the residents bays but there will be places nearby you can - but you do have a legitimate gripe. Edinburgh simply has more cars in it that it can cope with
Nick - so you really do think your convenience is a higher priority than others? You think you should be allowed to leave your car where you want so you can pop into a shop .
not just myself others also, being the unselfish type 😉
dont you think it would make more sence to go to stamps rather than havng to put the car into a car park and then paying for 30 min ticket for 5 mins?
i also think its dangerous when people put there bikes chained to signed posts and lampost and leave them hangin on the floor or up against shop windows making my area look like a sh!t hole but i dont moan about it, i walk or ride around it instead..??
Red lights - I am not talking about blasting through irregardless - I am talking about going thru slowly and carefully at junctions I know where I can see clearly in all directions.
I cycle on pavements when it is safe to do so. So that's OK then?
what wrong with riding on pavements? i only ever ride on pavements... 🙁
i practise bunny hops over drains lol hehe
what wrong with riding on pavements?
TJ will put you right in a bit. It's one of those unbreakable laws. Unlike riding through red lights.
lol haha couldnt actually give a poo tbh... i like practising buny hops 😉 its where the funs at, although people do get in the way sometimes..
puh i have to brake!
Molgrips:-
It's meant to be unpleasant: Just doing your job was not considered an excuse at the Nurenburg Trials IIRC.. (would insert a smiley face here if I hadknew how to do that!)
I am just doing my job, and unlike them I don't get paid if I don't and yes plenty of wardens will cut you some slack but the odd ones are really vindictive and being unpleasant to them stops you from starting something which will only result in the Polis being called..AND it makes you feel better.
TJ, I think you need a week of carrying my tools and materials for me: You do start to notice the extra 50 yards along the road as well as the three flights of stairs with each load you carry.