Forum menu
There were a lot of staff at Wiggle etc - if over 450 have gone apparently, they have likely kept some warehouse / pick & pack staff on to facilitate stock clearance.
I doubt tech support and warranty is going to be very forthcoming from now on put it this way, I would also probably thing twice before parting with a decent amount of money for anything, could all go pop at any moment now.
If crc were largely selling surplus oem stock and the boom meant every manufacturer wanted more components to put into frames. Where did crc get stock from? Surely all the bike companies hoovered it all up rather than wait for extended lead times to deliver stock.
I do feel for the staff as I suspect the new owner will run it all from Evans warehouses i England at the expense of the staff in NI
I ordered a jersey last night that had been sat in my basket for a while. Was despatched at 10pm apparently so someone was there last night at least.
Less than £20 though, wouldn't risk any more than that
How are the websites still business as usual with nearly all the staff immediately laid off?
As mentioned before, according to Cycling News they have kept on a handful of staff until the warehouse is empty.
My order yesterday got processed last night at 11pm and Evri have it for delivery tomorrow
Where did crc get stock from?
Taiwan? Bypassing local territory distributors and everyone assembling their bikes in the USA & Europe.
chrismac - I don't think CRC has been full of surplus stock for years has it?
Just had confirmation my order from last night shipped tomorrow
They’ve got a fair bit of stock to shift yet to repay creditors, continue to trade in admin is the normal route in these situations
Just a thought, presumably since Ashley has only bought the IP the stock is still "owned" by the administrators? So no real change there.
Ordered £20 quids worth of frame spares for my vitus substance yesterday and now dispatched.
Feel for all the staff and those associated now without jobs. Hoping it works out for them.
Frame despatched today having ordered before i realised they had gone pop.
I do feel for the staff as I suspect the new owner will run it all from Evans warehouses i England at the expense of the staff in NI
They haven't had a warehouse in NI for a few years - all based in the Midlands - Jct 10 M6......
“They haven’t had a warehouse in NI for a few years – all based in the Midlands – Jct 10 M6……”
This. The Northern Ireland operation shut down when wiggle bought them.
I believe the overall parent was massively in debt due to borrowing in the era of cheap money to buy/build property which a) hasn’t made the money expected and b) those loans have come up for renewal (like a 5yr fix on a mortgage) and the interest rates have gone through the roof. Lots of companies caught up in this vicious cycle. Massive multinational outsourcing and IT company Atos is in a similar position.
Whilst I’m no fan of Ashley, this bleating about buying a company and changing it is naive to the extreme. This has been going on forever. I don’t buy Cadbury chocolate any more because since the yanks took over the chocolate is even worse than it was. San Miguel isn’t owned by, or brewed, in Spain. And MG has nothing whatsoever to do with the UK. Or indeed its stellar heritage. You can’t even guarantee that the existing owner will maintain standards (see VW) it’s just the way it is. Caveat emptor is as true today as it ever was..
Just seen this posted by Rob Sherratt on FB:
Some of you may know, I took a decision to leave my position with Nukeproof just before Christmas. With all that was going on I didn’t feel the time was correct to say anything at the time.
I don’t know what the future holds now for the brand, but I wanted to post something to thank everyone that’s supported the brand. I joined Nukeproof over 9 years ago and have loved ever minute of it and working with the people behind the brand.
I’ve been fortunate to have watched us lift world championships, worked with the best and most talented athletes, win amazing media reviews, and launch some incredible products. But our proudest achievement has to be the community that you all have helped create around the brand.
A huge thank you from me in helping to make Nukeproof what it was and for all the support. #itsanattitude
Cheers,
Rob
(Former Nukeproof global marketing manager)Ps. If any of you find your way near a British Touring Car Race - feel free to pop past NAPA Racing and say hello.
Wasn't it that the ultimate big boss was a gazillionaire due to the housing/building stock he had in Sweden or Switzerland? Not necessarily cash rich but held huge value in stock that allowed him to borrow and guarantee against it (including the 120m CRC slush fund). Then the property market crashed leaving him with loads of property but no equity, which in turn meant he couldn't re-finance after the interest rates went up. He could no longer guarantee the 120m so CRC went pop.
I’m fully expecting Nukeproof to continue producing bikes and retaining some key employees. It’s a well recognised successful brand producing cutting edge bikes and with a race team. It must be one of the jewels of Ashley’s purchase. Thoughts?
That's not Ashley's business model. He buys the brand name and iconography, but dumps the people, products and support to sell rebadged catalogue products. If I owned a Nukeproof/Vitus/Ragley I wouldn't expect any support from the new ownership at all, not spares or warranty. Of course we could all be pleasantly surprised, but it would run against his past behaviour.
I'm struggling to see the advantage for Ashley here- his stackem high model might suit Evans, competing against Halfords, but CRC/Wiggle were largely mid/high end niche retailer. The only value of the brands is in those markets, unlike say Evans who have been a well known brand for years, and went through a 'shop on every corner' phase- basically the whole country knows they're a bike shop. Unlike Wiggle, and especially CRC.
I'm sure there's a rational plan, but I really have no idea what it is.
I’m struggling to see the advantage for Ashley here
Me too.
Muddy Fox I can understand. People who saw the Muddy Fox adverts on TV in the 80s as kids probably still have some association with the name being a good brand, especially if they never got into mountain biking as adults.
Therefore when these people are ready to buy their kids a bike the see a Muddy Fox for £200 they think, 'Oh, Muddy Fox, they are a good brand.'
I really can't see Vitus, Ragley, and Nukeproof having the same association for anyone other than people who got into mountain biking as adults and so know that a BSO with a known brand name is still a BSO.
Not everything they do is stack em high sell them cheap.
some times it’s stack em high sell them eye watering expensive.
whilst it’s neither to my taste nor budget if you pop into a flannels you can see that as a group they can do high end.
It maybe they want the wiggle/crc/vitus/nukeproof to take the flannels position with Evans becoming a cycling sports direct.
or the purchase of vitus/nukeproof/ragley and any other IP gives them enough brands to stock Evans almost entirely in brands that they own reducing the reliance on other suppliers.
Right this is what I can tell you, as of Wednesday 90% the staff have been made redundant, I was one of them. This is across all company. I also believe (unless they have signed a NDA) the all the design team at Nukeproof, Vitas, Ragley brand x, dhb etc have gone too so these brands are dead in all but name, its unlikely you will ever see them again in an LBS. Someone has brought the IP to the brands and the company but we were not told who but with a little digging it’s believed it is Sports Direct. If it is Mike Ashley he has just bumped of one of his competitors and WiggleCRC is dead as a brand name, it can only benefit his business. I also believe that WiggleCRC are trading until March to clear stock to pay creditors so there should be some amazing deals coming up.
Even though its out there the reason for the demise of the company is Signa Sports United pulled the 150 million Euro funding for the group over 2 years, this wasn’t just for WiggleCRC but for the European side of the business to, the hiking, golf shops etc.
I suppose this is the problem with investment companies buying business in booming industry, when it all goes to shit they pull out or refuse to support the business, I’ve seen it in the marine industry an investment company brought the 2 biggest wholesalers and merged them, within a year they were gone as the economy went into recession.
The sad thing with this whole debacle is a lot of good people have lost their jobs and these people are really passionate about the industry and the products they sell, Nukeproof is a good example of this, it was a riders brand designed by riders sold by riders and ridden by riders.
Sad times.
I hope all the Nukeproof guys get fired up and someone starts up another company doing the same with the similar builds etc... a bit of a phoenix from the flames.
It'll also be a shame for Vitus buyers as they were excellent value, but could massively benefit companies like Whyte who'll now be in for a bigger share of the semi-budget market.
Hope you get a new job sorted out quickly Pugwash. Sorry you got let go. ☹️
That’s not Ashley’s business model. He buys the brand name and iconography, but dumps the people, products and support to sell rebadged catalogue products. If I owned a Nukeproof/Vitus/Ragley I wouldn’t expect any support from the new ownership at all, not spares or warranty. Of course we could all be pleasantly surprised, but it would run against his past behaviour.
The bike shop geographically closest to my house is an Evans, I haven't spent a single penny there since they opened their doors, during the same time Chiggle have probably had the best part of a grand off of me. I think this may well be Ashley (or his advisors) recognising that the Frazer group 'lose' a good chunk of cycling segment sales to the likes of wiggle and CRC, same as most bricks and mortar shops.
Someone will know, what proportion of the cycle retail market does/did chiggle hold over the last decade or so?
Ashley is not going to be sentimental about the brands or people, everyone knows that's not his MO, but he's also never been that into the internet has he, so this is a change for him...
Nominative determinism. A chain reaction occurs prior to it all going bang loudly. Possibly why the brand most closely associated with CR has been Nukeproof.
I always had excellent service and prices from CRC, I hope staff find new and secure roles.
A useful reminder that this is real people and real jobs. I hope that all the staff find good jobs that work for them.
I hope all the Nukeproof guys get fired up and someone starts up another company doing the same with the similar builds etc… a bit of a phoenix from the flames.
I hope so too. But I’m assuming a lot of people looked long and had at buying Nukeproof, including the current team. The conclusion must have been that they couldn’t make it work. Although we don’t know what the brand would have cost, it’s hard to imagine that starting a new brand from scratch would have been cheaper. I think that the cycling industry consensus must have been, with many brands close to going bust, now is not the time to invest
Just read this...very sad news.
I really hope they rise again too.
Is there anyone doing value alu hardtail frames anymore?
The Vitus/Nukeproof/Ragley stuff was quite well thoughtout, as was the Pinnacle stuff from Evans. Even On-one seemed to have lost interest in frame only options judging from their pricing.
Maybe Aliexpress is the only answer. At least their frames have "fish scale proces"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006363539292.html
but he’s also never been that into the internet has he, so this is a change for him…
He doesn't need to be, my understanding is that's he's bought the name and the IP, he's not bought it as a going-concern and therefore he won't be operating the webshop
I hope all the Nukeproof guys get fired up and someone starts up another company doing the same with the similar builds etc… a bit of a phoenix from the flames
Islabike? They created the "decent bikes for kids" market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
I've had uniformly good experiences both buying from Wiggle and with Nukeproof parts in particular and will be sad to see them and CRC go. As per anyone else here with an ounce of empathy, I hope the staff are able to find alternative employment and wish them well generally.
Also, people keep mentioning Karrimor as a name that was 'ruined' by Mike Ashley. In fact, regardless of what he's done with the brand, Karrimor pretty much shafted itself well before he bought it. Initially it was an innovative company thanks largely to Mike Parsons, who was behind stuff like the Karrimat, KSB lightweight boot and more, but things went quite badly wrong when they decided they were going to become some sort of fashion mega-brand off the back of a positive fleece review in GQ or FHM and created a huge new-season range of mostly light blue technical clothing that didn't really work very well in technical terms, but didn't appeal to fashionistas either.
In the aftermath of that, they were bought out by an Irish holding company, relocated for a few years to Dublin and pretty much lost their identity as a hands-on outdoor brand. They were a sort of zombie shell of a real brand well before Mike Ashley.
Karrimor may have screwed themselves, but what it is now is nothing to do with what it was. But it's not unusual in cycling, see Carnac, Vitus, nukeproof, Holdsworth, etc etc. I think even Silca is barely connected to its past.
It would be nice for companies to offer products that are genuine rather than trading off some history. At least Rapha picked a new name rather than trying to commandeer some other company.
@Captain-Pugwash I feel for you having been through similar in the past. Good luck finding something suitable
Yes, good luck to Pugwash and all the rest in finding secure and fulfilling new roles. I really feel for you.
As I've mentioned before someone close to me was royally shafted by wiggle some years back over employment (offered a job with them and had resigned and left their current job before wiggle withdrew the offer hours before they were meant to start citing a restructure and the job no longer existing. Turned out later for those in the business that the restructure was in the works long before the offer was made and they only went ahead and offered as a backstop in case it didn't go through) which has left me very ambivalent about them as an employer or someone to spend money with ever since. But this really sucks for many of you.
Islabike? They created the “decent bikes for kids” market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
That's not going to happen. Isla's a Quaker and their level of ethics is far beyond merely running a business. Which is why they packed it in rather than selling on the brand.
Interestingly Mike Ashley owns a stake (25% or 33% IIRC) in Agent Provocateur, which has more-or-less remained a very upmarket lingerie retailer since his arrival. So perhaps he is capable of operating different business models.
(Or, maybe the other board members are just capable of standing up to him...)
It’ll also be a shame for Vitus buyers as they were excellent value
They weren't excellent value, they were being sold at or below cost. That's not a unsustainable business model so if they do return then they wont be excellent value.
I suspect the reason for buying the IP (though oddly not the stock) is because if you google "cheap fox 38s" and the 7 of the top 10 results all point to businesses you own then you've got a head start over the competitors. So I would expect to see Wiggle & CRC web names live on but pointing to the same website architecture as Evans or Sports Direct just with their own brand colour coding.
As for why you'd buy Nukeproof and Vitus and all the sub brand IP, it might just have been a case it was bundled in together by the administrators so it was all or nothing. Give it a couple of years for it all to die down then stick the brand names on the market again... remember that they've both already had 2 different owners, Saracen has had maybe 3. Holdsworth, Titus & POD have all come back to the market under PX.
Wasn't the Karrimor factory shop just outside Accrington? I'm still wearing a base layer I got from there about 30 years ago .....
Interestingly Mike Ashley owns a stake (25% or 33% IIRC) in Agent Provocateur,
they have also for a few years now owned 37% of mulberry, which so far still maintains its cachet. although that might be due to them keeping him at arms length they rejected his requests for a place on their board and said that while Ashley is “an important shareholder, a successful businessman . . . we don’t consider he has the expertise that we need to grow the company”
Bugger- just found out he also owns 10% of Hornby.
Saracen has had maybe 3
At the very least. Think they were the original owners up until the mid 90's, then sold on where they continued to make some decent stuff. Went hugely downhill and in to BSO territory in the 2000's so assume they were sold again before finally ending up with Maddison?
Islabike? They created the “decent bikes for kids” market. Two competitors, Vitus and Nukeproof are just about to exit it. Perhaps Islabike is due a resurrection
That’s not going to happen. Isla’s a Quaker and their level of ethics is far beyond merely running a business. Which is why they packed it in rather than selling on the brand.
I'm merely pointing out that the marketplace will be getting less crowded and perhaps more favourable for Islabikes to restart or relaunch themselves. There's going to be less choice of decent kids bikes. Nukeproof and Vitus will never be the same again if Pinnacle are anything to go by.
He doesn’t need to be, my understanding is that’s he’s bought the name and the IP, he’s not bought it as a going-concern and therefore he won’t be operating the webshop
If that's really the case then he/they are bonkers. But I'd have thought stuff like domain names and the associated market presence comes under the general heading of 'IP' surely? Not just 'Brands' and product names...
I can see Frazer group "re-skinning" the wiggle and CRC websites as front ends for their existing Evans web store, I mean wiggle/CRC were the ones to pioneer having two storefronts for the same business. Is it much more sweat for the potential increase in traffic?
In much the same way, how much trouble is it to get their existing suppliers for Pinnacle bikes to pop a Vitus decal on a frame?
I’m merely pointing out that the marketplace will be getting less crowded and perhaps more favourable for Islabikes to restart or relaunch themselves. There’s going to be less choice of decent kids bikes. Nukeproof and Vitus will never be the same again if Pinnacle are anything to go by.
It may be shrinking, but I don't think it's going to become a hospitable marketplace for businesses with a more ethical set of core values, it's just going to become a smaller pond with some bigger sharks swimming in it. That's part of why Isla shut up shop (IMO).