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Of course they don’t hold the parts.
They never did. They'd steer you to buy the thing they did have in stock. It's inconceivable any small family owned shop could ever hold all the stock needed. But the range of different components used now has risen exponentially in the last 30 years. Regardless of the rise on Chiggle etc I don't think the LBS model could ever have kept up with consumer needs and expectation.
The only LBS model I could envisage working would be a franchised screwfix style model with some stock and a lot more available next day and a mechanic to do the spannering.
I don't really get the LBS vs online debate, surely there's space for both?
I never visit an LBS as it takes more time/hassle than fixing my own stuff at home. But equally there's friends I ride with who get everything done at the LBS, and if they buy something online (2nd hand or new), they get the LBS to fit it. I don't see either approach being wrong.
The absolute scumbag, buy the IP and bin the rest. Words fail me as to how this has been able to happen, complete and utter greed from all of them
It's just business. CRC/Wiggle have gone bust and he's taken the element he sees the greatest value from so that the creditors can get back some of the money they are owed. He didn't make them go bust nor is his business a charity that keeps people in work.
Let's not forget that the reason CRC/Wiggle existed is because of our insatiable appetite to have things cheap. How many LBS have gone bust because of our buying habits. Ultimately, much of the responsibility of the situation in the bike trade sits with us.
Unless I am missing something, I don't get why people are so against the IP being sold? Obviously it would have been better if the staff kept their jobs and it was sold as a going concern but that was a big ask. If evil Mike makes a BSO and puts a Ragley/Vitus/Nukeproof sticker on it, nobody who had one of the CRC Nukeproofs is going to think it's the same bike. People who buy a £200 bike from Sportsdirect more than likely don't care what it says on the sticker either, they certainly wouldn't have been aware of the history behind a brand.
It also opens up a gap in the market for other brands to move into.
They never did.
True. I remember even in the 90s I'd get a bike shop to order in the part I wanted. Meant two trips to the bike shop... and two chances to chat bikes and look at bikes.
Unless I am missing something, I don’t get why people are so against the IP being sold?
Mostly I think becasue Mike Ashley is a lazy "all somewhat successful High-Street businessmen must be soulless rapacious bogeyman" trope?
I mean if the baddies would just wear a topper, and hide behind a cape raised to just below their eyes, and perhaps even a maniacal laugh; it would all be much much simpler
the-muffin-man - I’m sorry but that may the case for you but Nukeproof was a brand held in fairly high regard and did it not win a ‘most desirable’ award?
’cachet’ - sure they aren’t a titanium single speed made in Gary Fishers garage but a mile away from what sports direct did to Karrimor.
I don’t see what Mike Ashley did to Karrimor is any different to what CRC did to Nukeproof. Both are nothing like how they started out. As soon as Nukeproof became an in-house CRC brand the cache was lost
Nukeproof continued to develop bikes and adding to their range. They offered some more budget models along with high end specs and sponsored teams and riders at a world cup level. That's very different to using a historic reputation to sell a substandard product.
There was some quality issues with the latest Mega which tarnished the reputation, but aside from that I really like Nukeproof. I hope they get sold off so they can continue.
People who buy a £200 bike from Sportsdirect more than likely don’t care what it says on the sticker either, they certainly wouldn’t have been aware of the history behind a brand.
This is totally muddled thinking. IF the people buying the Ashley bike with the 'Ragley' sticker on it don't care what the sticker says, why did Ashley pay money for the right to put 'Ragley' on it rather that 'Padley'? 20 years on the Karrimor stuff that Ashley knocks out is still dining out on the reputation the brand had in it's halcyon days when it's stuff was designed and made in the UK.
Though I do take the point that CRC Nukeproof is already nothing like the original Nukeproof brand so this is only the same thing happening again for it.
I'd say it'd be good to see Nukeproof, Vitus or Ragley purchased and continued by the staff involved, but since their main selling channel will be gone that probably doesn't make much sense.
Is Brant asking about Ragley with a view to picking it up though?
So does this mean i can get more options than Muddy Fox from sports direct in the near future?
What happened to the original business that started off CR? Only been playing Mtb for a relatively short time compared to many of you.
Brant probably has the sense to stay with clothes and not go anywhere near Ragley
What happened to the original business that started off CR?
Very long story, very short
started as a family owned LBS
Started doing Mail order
Became worlds biggest mail order bike shop, with its own brands, race team and distribution channels
Family sold to Wiggle
Owners of wiggle pulled their investment
The original LBS morphed into the CRC that we all knew, that they then sold to Wiggle. The family did well from the sale, the business not so much...
Fantastic, I have been desperate for more channels to buy crap Muddyfox seat covers from.
Elliot Heap and Nigel Paige have posted on FB & Insta that it's all over for the team etc.
Not sure where that leave Chris Cumming & Continental Nukeproof Factory Racing along with Danny Hart & Vero Widmann etc.
Not seen anything posted from the Nukeproof crew in Belfast etc., hope that something can come out of this as Nukeproof are (were...) doing some great stuff with kit and bikes.
My last 3 FS's (including my current carbon Mega) have been Nukeproof, I had a Scout hard tail and now have a Ragley Marley, and my Daughter has 2 Vitus bikes. Strange to think that those brands are no longer as they were a couple of days ago.....
I notice GMBN announced a new bike sponsor last Friday. I don't know if that was pre-emptive or Nukeproof had already pulled out of their deal. Blake's going to miss his Scout
If CRC\Wiggle administrators have let all the staff go it seems odd the website is still open for orders. Who is going to be picking/packing those? Do staff get given notice in this situation and are still working for a week or so? I would have thought the website would have been closed. There could be a fair few people not receiving their orders if they are not aware of the announcement.
From a business perspective this seems odd.
In the short term they still have stock to shift, which needs people to build bikes, pick and pack orders, etc.
I guess externally supplied stuff might go back to the supplier. But I wonder if that means they're going to send the rest to an auction house to dispose of in bulk. There must still be stock of some quite high value stuff as the fire sale seemed to be mostly Vitus MTBs (not road, Cx etc) which I assumed was to try and protect the core brands value. As well as crates of small parts.
The only LBS model I could envisage working would be a franchised screwfix style model with some stock and a lot more available next day and a mechanic to do the spannering.<br /><br />
Careful now, you’ve just described Halfords.
Careful now, you’ve just described Halfords.
I lord - what have I done!
Though to be fair - that might just be the best we can expect.
And - whilst it doesn't need to be strapped to an automotive supplier, I can see it being more sustainable if the business does something else too in addition to bike and bike mechanics for an income stream.
I was actually thinking going the other way though - a sole trader outfit that were branded up as part of a larger 'chain' with some sort of common training and standards. Operating out of a cheap unit on a trading estate or a very cheap small retail unit BUT with access to a supply chain and pricing that a sole trader could only dream of. You have a single source for all your parts and don't have to deal with a myriad of distributors. Test bikes could be shipped to you for consumers to pay to take it away for a demo day/week.
Mostly I think becasue Mike Ashley is a lazy “all somewhat successful High-Street businessmen must be soulless rapacious bogeyman” trope?I mean if the baddies would just wear a topper, and hide behind a cape raised to just below their eyes, and perhaps even a maniacal laugh; it would all be much much simpler
Come on, he's not a very nice chap. Sure - no worse than Philip Green or Bezos, but that's no excuse.
Halfords MUST have considered it, but it would have a been a tight timeframe to reconsider their entire business model when it comes to bikes.
They tried before and even they couldn’t make it work. They owned Cycle Republic but sold some off and closed the rest.
They already own Tredz for the online stuff.
onewheelgood
Full Member
I think the bike business should take a look at what the bookshops have done to stay in business against the might of Amazon. I can go to my LBS (Local Book Shop, the excellent Warwick Books) order pretty much any book that is still in print, and get a phone call the next morning to say that my book is ready to collect. I don’t know what miracle of logistics lies behind this, but if they can do it for books I can’t see why it wouldn’t work for bike parts.
I never use Amazon.
I use this, which is connected to most independent book shops.
Intellectual Property.
Lots of different types (Design Rights, Copyright, patents, trademarks).
I'm assuming here we are talking mostly about trademarks.
Funny how short some people's memory is.
Nukeproof and Vitus were both brands that existed long before CRC or Wiggle. After they died they were bought by a massive company, the same company that bought x-lite and killed that off too, that company then produced products that had little if any connection with the original products.
WTF is an IP?
Idler Pulley. Nukeproof were going to put them on their new Mega, and had a massive order in. But now Mike Ashley bought them and is going to make his new Muddy Fox TopRider XT98 a high pivot frame instead.
Nukeproof and Vitus were both brands that existed long before CRC or Wiggle. After they died they were bought by a massive company, the same company that bought x-lite and killed that off too, that company then produced products that had little if any connection with the original products.
Nukeproof V1 mainly made very light hubs that cracked quicker than an early 90s Cannondale. So in that case at least, CRC improved things.
They tried before and even they couldn’t make it work. They owned Cycle Republic but sold some off and closed the rest.
Bad timing though, and it was really just a slightly upmarket Bikehut aimed at commuters. It felt like it was really trying to go up against Evans for the city / commuter / nearest-to-a-train-station market.
Occasionally useful for click and collect of generic consumables at Halfords prices, but the in-store pricing was definitely "ohh you need these brake pads, cable or innertube, NOW?" "that'll be £££ please!"
And like Evans, they went out of business around the same time (just hat Evans got resurected as part of Frasers group).
Isn't this mostly the result of private equity and leveraged buyouts destroying previously profitable companies?
Isn’t this mostly the result of private equity and leveraged buyouts destroying previously profitable companies?
Something between that and Neil from SS's point about them apparently selling for less than their costs (pre-fire sale as well).
But I suspect probably more the former, and maybe one led to the other anyway?
Isn’t this mostly the result of private equity and leveraged buyouts destroying previously profitable companies?
I suspect the boom / bust of the pandemic is the root cause here. Company expands based on expecting boom to continue, boom turns to bust, company can't refinance...
the in-store pricing was definitely “ohh you need these brake pads, cable or innertube, NOW?” “that’ll be £££ please!”
Pretty much like every LBS then. That’s the cost of maintaining a service on the high street.
Private equity kept it afloat this long.
There's several layers to how the holding company folded, but ultimately CRC was hemorrhaging a lot more cash than it eventually went bankrupt owing, the accounts and reports imply they kept paying their bills right up until the last minute. It became insolvent when the parent company of the parent company ran out of money to throw at the problem and turned off the financial taps.
The mismanagement aspect comes in when you have to ask to what end were they working, trying to undercut everyone else until they were the only large mail order co. remaining?
[blockquote] The only LBS model I could envisage working would be a franchised screwfix style model with some stock and a lot more available next day and a mechanic to do the spannering.[/blockquote]
Doesn't Madison do this already via Freewheel?
You mean Halfords?
The mismanagement aspect comes in when you have to ask to what end were they working, trying to undercut everyone else until they were the only large mail order co. remaining?
I'm not saying they weren't doing this, but before the panic sales of recent months it didn't really feel to me like they were much cheaper than everyone else.
I just kept using them because they were reliable, convenient and had good stock.
What timeframe are they supposed to have been doing this aggressive undercutting over?
I'm not sure we know the full facts of the finances etc. was Chiggle making those massive daily losses or were the profits being taken out to fund other areas of the business?
Happens with a lot of companies - use the profitable arm to fund/support the less profitable and hope that the tide swings and you can pay back or divert when that section of the business becomes profitable again.
Same happened with Westfield Sports Cars - they took out loans against and diverted profit from that section of the business to fund the autonomous EV business.
Doesn’t Madison do this already via Freewheel?
I think so...sort of, but not really. It's very Shimano/Madison only isn't it? No Sram or Campag. So if you were running a LBS and wanted to be able to supply all the components needed for anyone that walked in the door, you'd need to be look for other suppliers too.
How are the websites still business as usual with nearly all the staff immediately laid off?
[blockquote]I’m not sure we know the full facts of the finances etc. was Chiggle making those massive daily losses or were the profits being taken out to fund other areas of the business?
Happens with a lot of companies [/blockquote]
AIUI
The top company seems to be in trouble, unable to raise more finances and stopped sending money down the chain.
The intermediate holding company they were ploughing money into has therefore folded owing a fortune.
At the bottom of the pile you have Chiggle that was making the losses but being kept afloat by money coming down the chain.
[blockquote]I’m not saying they weren’t doing this, but before the panic sales of recent months it didn’t really feel to me like they were much cheaper than everyone else.
I just kept using them because they were reliable, convenient and had good stock.[/blockquote]
You only need to be 1p cheaper to get to the top of searches.
And all that warehousing and stock that delivers the "value" to you as a consumer has a cost associated with it. Same with advertising, WC teams, etc that attract people to them over Merlin, etc.