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The new SRAM X0 Eagle AXS drivetrain requires a UDH equipped frame. Why? To enable a direct bolt-on mounting method that’s designed for robustness and ridiculous shift under-load capability.
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By ben_haworth
Get the full story here:
https://singletrackworld.com/2023/03/new-sram-x0-eagle-axs-review/
Looks great. Lots of good ideas and some questions.
Will they continue this alongside existing Eagle AXS or is it a total replacement? For frames without a UDH, this is a non-starter and pretty much narrows my groupset choice with my existing frame.
Too cheap for me. I'm waiting for the psychic version with no shifter.
I'll wait for the sentient AI version that's better at gear selection than me.
The rear mech is flipping well sturdy.
Lol. I'd love to test that claim here in the Lakes...
You know, it'd be nice if they put any money towards an actual 'proper' sized reverb AXS. It's 4 years old now.
This new groupset does look good, I'll admit - as a current AXS owner - but my frame doesn't have a UDH so I'll never be a potential customer unless Nicolai come out with a retrofit UDH, which I can't see happening.
Looks perfectly rational, but is it going to be an open standard, or are Shimano going to bring out the SDH next year and we'll be locked into whatever system the OEM choses?
I'm just impressed that your chain is as filthy as mine 😀
Edit: Casette cost jumps out at me. Is there any real reason it won't work with another 12sp casette? Appreciate it may not shift as well under power but casette and chain are £535 alone. Could be a way to save some cash.
Looks perfectly rational, but is it going to be an open standard, or are Shimano going to bring out the SDH next year and we’ll be locked into whatever system the OEM choses?
the "UDH" was an open standard allowing any normal mech to attach
this attaches to the place where the UDH hangar attaches (removing the need for the hangar)
current shimano will therefore work on anything (using a UDH hangar) that the new Sram stuff works on, but I dont know if Sram have patented the concept of direct mount.
This completely replaces AXS. They also aren't updating the mechanical drivetrains so if you don't have UDH then it's mechanical only. It's completely not backwards compatible. Even the chainline of the cassette is different. It's wider, which means it runs into your frame if you committed to UDH Revision E 2 years ago, and they didn't properly disseminate the information for Revision G with the Transmission information in it. Not all UDH frames are equal......
Transmission cassettes are 2.5mm wider chainline that any other cassette. With the direct mount rear mech, they have put the cassette effectively where the dropout cowl is on a regular frame, so that cassette will foul the dropout face plane of any other frame even if it uses a regular UDH hanger and other SRAM rear mech.
So there are different versions of a Universal hanger that aren't compatible with each other? More of a Multiversal Derailleur Hanger then innit?
All the versions of UDH are compatible with eachother. The direct mount transmission rear mechs are necessarily compatible with frames designed to earlier versions of UDH.
if you don’t have UDH then it’s mechanical only
I read that existing AXS was remaining in production for us non UDH types?
Sounds utterly awful.
I'm sure STW will love it.
thegeneralist doesn’t like it, sounds like it could be good
Wasn't the mech hanger there to protect the frame as well as the mech?....
thegeneralist doesn’t like it, sounds like it could be good
I wasn’t gonna bother, but now I’ve seen this, I’ll be putting an order in.
So replaceable mech hangers ideally give you a cheap (UDH are only about £15) part that breaks to save both the frame and the mech. Now many times that doesn't actually work - many times over the years I've ended up with both a bust mech and a bent hanger, but sometimes it did.
This makes the replaceable part an (expensive?) part of the mech. But what protects the frame? I've heard horror stories of UDHs (and some other manufacturers more recent hangers) rotating and wrecking the seat stay. How is the frame affected if the first stage of the mech gets bashed in different directions?
Honestly, what kind of wizardry justifies a well over 100 percent rise in the RRP of a chain? I know SRAM chains are supposed to last well, but still...
According to the embargoed video that I watched, current AXS and mechanical drivetrains aren't going anywhere. IIRC the guy hinted at new stuff coming too. It'd be commercial suicide to stop supporting consumers that have current bikes that don't have a UDH, given that the vast majority of bikes out there don't. Maybe things will be different in 10 years time....
Many things putting me off as an electric shifting convert. Overall price is obviously the biggest & also lack of cross compatibility - it's only going to work with a flat top chain, that costs how much??
Just annoying that they've opened up use of the UDH, and tried to closed options on chains and cassettes - or am I missing something.
I've axs on two bikes (and another form of electric shifting on another) and really happy with them, but I cirtainly couldn't justify the 'upgrade' for the stiffer rear mech and slightly better shifting under load. Shifter also seems like a step backwards - more like the archer components v1....
Ill wait another few years for the price to drop and compatibility to improve.
According to the embargoed video that I watched, current AXS and mechanical drivetrains aren’t going anywhere. IIRC the guy hinted at new stuff coming too. It’d be commercial suicide to stop supporting consumers that have current bikes that don’t have a UDH, given that the vast majority of bikes out there don’t. Maybe things will be different in 10 years time….
Exactly. Even SRAM aren't stupid enough to stop supplying chains/cassettes/mechs etc to thousands of customers who haven't or can't upgrade to the latest AXS stuff. The 'old' Eagle AXS stuff isn't going anywhere soon.
phew.. cant work on any of my bikes
massive relief that it works just as good as my xt drivetrain that cost 10% of this probably
Just how long will a £500 cassette last?
And you'll only be able to run those flat-top chains, too. Which are not great.
...and I'm annoyed about dropping £70 for a new SLX cassette every year.
Really makes you think 🙄
Just how long will a £500 cassette last?
Based on how long previous iterations have lasted, kin ages.
and I’m annoyed about dropping £70 for a new SLX cassette every year.
How many miles are you doing to have to replace a cassette yearly?! 😲
Based on how long previous iterations have lasted, kin ages.
Yup, I don't exactly do the most miles but I've got 2000km over 3.5 years on an X01 cassette and XX1 chain and they've still got a huge amount of life left.
How many miles are you doing to have to replace a cassette yearly?!
Tbf, it's probably not yearly. It's not the miles, it's the incline. It's up or down here, very little rolling terrain. I spend most of my time climbing in gears 1-3, so they wear much faster than the rest.
With now both SRAM and Shimano having 12 chains and cassettes that can shift very well under full load, why does SRAM’s top of the range cassette cost £645 and the chain is £160, where the XTR one costs £330 for the cassette and £60 for the chain. Why such a difference? It’s insane!
STD. Sram transmission development
sorry feeling childish
So does this stop working in a much more efficient time than the older version? 😉😂
April 1st already?
FFS look at those prices, and it doesn't shift as well as XT?
APF 🙁
So the main benefit of this kit is that it allows you to do what Rapid Rise did 16 years ago?
Oh, and why kudos for 1x? I'm on board with it but still not convinced it's any real kind of improvement as the manufacturers seem to spend all their time increasing range back to what we always could do with 2x or 3x!
I'll out myself as no fan of Sram though, which may cloud my judgement.
it costs £1,715
How much more fun will it make my ride if I fit it instead of Deore?
Oh, and why kudos for 1x? I’m on board with it but still not convinced it’s any real kind of improvement as the manufacturers seem to spend all their time increasing range back to what we always could do with 2x or 3x!
Ha! I'm sorry, I know a good amount of mtb'ers are opposed to any sort of progress or improvement in technology and bikes, but this is just utter nonsense. 1x not an improvement over 2x or 3x. Come on now... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
it costs £1,715
The launch price of X01 AXS, in 2019, was £1900.
And here we are, a few years later, with a GX AXS available for a few hundred quid.
GX AXS available for a few hundred quid
With cassette and chainset?
I've thought for a long while that the extra reach needed on modern wide range cassettes puts significantly more leverage through a mech hanger than ever before. It seems much more involved to keep on top of mech hanger alignment.
Something like this needed to happen.
Shame I have only one bike it will fit on!
utter nonsense. 1x not an improvement over 2x or 3x. Come on now… 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Heavier, less range, more fragile, and far more expensive.
for those talking about patents, Bikerumor (sory) did a patent patrol article a few years back. Admittedly most of these articles include a large amount of speculation, but it's still good to see what's being thought of.
also a bit about the shift ramps
https://bikerumor.com/patent-patrol-shimano-sram-campagnolo-all-file-major-drivetrain-updates/
Heavier, less range, more fragile, and far more expensive.
Depends what you buy. I run mid cage XT 12 speed and that is (Relative to 1x) lighter, less but still adequate range, definitely no more fragile and certainly less fickle and prone to derailling, and quite cheap relatively speaking.
Before I never spend any money on this is there an easy way of finding out if your bike has a UDH?
there's a lookup on sram's website
It's also usually listed in the frame spec of your bike
Before I never spend any money on this is there an easy way of finding out if your bike has a UDH?
How old is your bike? Think it only appeared in 2019. The text UDH is usually printed around the driveside rear drop out if it uses UDH. mine has a UDH, but I wont be rushing to replace the drive train just yet..... cost needs to come down quite a lot.
I got the impression from one review that there are variations of the UDH and not all are suitable for AXS Transmission.
back to what we always could do with 2x or 3x!
1x is a reaction to the introduction of larger wheels not transmission complexity.
Heavier, less range, more fragile, and far more expensive.
No bash guard, constant chain drops on anything remotely bumpy, chain suck mangling frames, never in the right chainring, cluttered bars, more cables, more maintenance.
Anyway, I think the argument about 1x Vs 2x/3c has been done to death.
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It's the future, Get onboard old men.
Heavier, less range, more fragile, and far more expensive.
Wrong, wrong, almost wrong and wrong. In my experience.
And what about the upsides?
I've always said, the time to launch a £3k groupset is in the middle of huge financial strain around the world and massive inflation
The sorts of folks that'll buy this groupset now; aren't personally really suffering massive inflation or financial strain
I don't think the photos really sell it for me, they remind me of this (takes hybrid commuter out of shed, fills watering can, takes photo)... 😀
Yeah nothing like it, but whatever. The photos look like it's covered gunk.
edit: yes the kit has been used for review, but the colour scheme of the kit bleuuuighhhrrrr, gunk, but it really doesn't matter because it's waaaaaay out of my price range.
Apologies if others have mentioned this, but I get that the mech is strong and will take a whack, or a fat bloke mysteriously jumping up and down on it, and also I have personally experienced that mech hangers do not save mechs but they do save frames when things really go south.
I've bent a few hangers with whacks and thumps, but I've only snapped them, and mangled mechs, from sticks in spokes. I think 3x over teh years. mech mangled, hanger snapped, frame ticket boo.
I'm not buying AXS yet, but what happens with a stick in the spoke? with a big tough mech do I now say bye bye to mech and frame?
So why is does the mech look bent form behind ?
I heard 'dont worry about it' buy not the why ?
Also doent this system rely on the frame manufacturers getting their tolerances spot on from the factory - mech hanger alignment tool is not going to help anymore
there's plenty of videos of fat blokes standing on the mech (well, not so fat) but a lot heavier than id be happy with on any of my kit
it looks bent from behind so the top pulley aligns with the cassette sprocket, lower pulley aligns with the chainring
only tolerance the frame manufacturer would need to get right is the size of the through hole, and thickness of the axle flange itself that the mech sits on. as the cassette butts to the mech hanger part.. the tolerances then all become SRAMS issue.
anyone remember the derailuer hanger savers that kind of mounted the derailuer to the frame in the same way as this direct mount derailuer is - ie it resulted in the derailluer being cantilevered off the axle rather than hung from a hanger?
I had one on a specialized enduro in about 2007 - I'm trying to google for a photo.
edit:
this is the best I can find, it wasnt one of these, but worked in the same way, was made by shimano I think
Got to touch the groupset in my LBS today, didn't jump up and down on it but was surprised how big and heavy the mech is and how light the "cheap" cassette is. The shifter looks like a tiny speedplay pedal
https://flic.kr/p/2ooDHEf
found it ! it wasnt made by shimano, was made by specialized
All the videos I've seen of people standing on mechs they're standing on the axle, which seems kinda pointless to me. I'm glad it's strong there, but the most vulnerable point will always be the bottom of the cage, near the bottom jockey wheel.
I'm disappointed, but not surprised by Cy's comments that not all UDH frames will accept this new groupset.