[Closed] Mathieu van der Poel Olympic Crash: He Didn't Know Ramp Had Been Removed

Vader told him to "feel the force"

How did everyone else know ....

Glad he's ok, looked like a nasty crash. We've all had those horrible OTB moments but that one looked especially vicious. As has been mentioned though, every other rider hit that feature correctly so questions need to be asked about why he didn't know the ramp had been removed.

BTW, how those guys ride features like that on 100mm travel carbon whippets amazes me. Kudos for those good enough to compete at that level.

How did everyone else know ….

Exactly.

Still, does seem a bit odd they have a ramp there during practice, only to remove it for the race. Is that normal in elite XC racing?

Exactly. Pidcock wasn't at the test event, he seemed to know.

Still, does seem a bit odd they have a ramp there during practice, only to remove it for the race. Is that normal in elite XC racing?

also it was back for the women. as a result of the vdp issue or due to some of the lowerdown women not being able to do the drop?

there looks to be a chicken line a few metres to riders left (for significant time penalty) that nobody has taken in either race

Still, does seem a bit odd they have a ramp there during practice, only to remove it for the race. Is that normal in elite XC racing?

I guess practice was open to men AND women at the same time and kept the ramp in for the benefit of the women (it was left in for the women's race this AM).

Makes sense in that context, especially since some of the women were clearing it.

Edit: sort of beaten to it

If the ramp was there in reconnaissance then he has a valid reason to be exceedingly upset....

If the ramp was there in reconnaissance then he has a valid reason to be exceedingly upset….

Not if teams were aware it would be removed for the race, which appears to be the case (including his team).

I guess practice was open to men AND women at the same time and kept the ramp in for the benefit of the women (it was left in for the women’s race this AM).

Makes sense in that context, especially since some of the women were clearing it.

I suppose that could be the case. Definitely does seem to be a major communication error in the Dutch camp - no idea if it was MVDP not listening, his coach failing to tell him, or what.

When I saw it there for the women's race it all made a bit more sense. However, you'd want to have had a chance at riding it without too. Perhaps they removed it for part of the recon times but that nuance was lost in the simplification for the media.

He rocked up V late for the race - somewhere in this I'd say he needs to take a good heft of the blame. The other dutch male riders had no such issue.

Again, humbled by what these men and women manage on bikes built for speed not gnar.

If the ramp was there in reconnaissance then he has a valid reason to be exceedingly upset….

Again though, he appeared ot tbe the only rider in the entire field who made this mistake.

To win the Olympics you need to be the best in the world on that day. Being the best is not just the being the fittest but also the best prepared. He was not the best prepared, for whatever reason. He can not, and should not, blame anyone else.

said elsewhere that the course was altered for the women's race because of the overnight rain making it more difficult

Not just the ramp back in, other bits were different too.

there looks to be a chicken line a few metres to riders left (for significant time penalty) that nobody has taken in either race

That’ll be for me to push my 160mm endurosledge down*. Very thoughtful people the Japanese.

*To be honest I might make that drop/jump but I’m not betting on it.

from the VitalMTB forum, which in turn was quoting another source:

Here are a few key facts:

• The ramp was placed during practice sessions for safety reasons so that a rider who made a mistake during practice could still make it to the race.
• There were 2 communiques sent to each team informing them that the ramp would be removed during the race. Each communique was given both as a paper copy and sent over email to team managers.
• This was mentioned during the team managers' meeting the day before the Men Elite race.
• The slides shown during the meeting was also sent as a pdf to the inboxes of every listed team manager.
• The organizers and the commissaires did the exact same procedures above at the test event 2 years ago (which he missed because he chose a road race in Belgium instead).
• In other news reports, his coach and his teammate (M. Vader), both claim that they spoke multiple times to MVdP and mentioned the ramp would be removed.

Got to say I’m disappointed but not surprised that people are suggesting it was there for the benefit of some women implying that all men have the skills to ride without it but not the women.

Got to say I’m disappointed but not surprised that people are suggesting it was there for the benefit of some women implying that all men have the skills to ride without it but not the women.

That might (not unreasonably) be aimed at me as I think I was the first to introduce the idea that it was there for the benefit of the women. Mea culpa, I hadn't taken overnight rain into account, but in my defence I was just reporting it as I saw it e.g. it wasn't there for the mens, it was there for the women's. Not defending any organiser's decision in this respect and certainly not picking a side in the argument, but it's hardly unusual to water down a course for the women (see also: road race).

Did Olly Wilkins tell him to ‘Just roll it’ 🙂

Got to say I’m disappointed but not surprised that people are suggesting it was there for the benefit of some women implying that all men have the skills to ride without it but not the women.

Got to say I’m disappointed but not surprised that people are suggesting that suggesting that is sexist.

Everyone knows that their smaller bikes with pink components can't cope with gnar and that it's nothing to do with the riders.

Also the issue that whilst some women are faster/stronger than some men, at the elite end of the bell curve the men are actually faster and stronger*. So if you want to design a course that just the right level of difficulty to differentiate between the top three in the world then it's going to look different in either race.

Although having said that, isn't the BMX going to remove gap jumps for the next cycle so that the men race the same track as the women?

*This is why I can't out lift them women's weightlifting champions, but some guy called Thor from Iceland probably will.

Got to say I’m disappointed but not surprised that people are suggesting it was there for the benefit of some women implying that all men have the skills to ride without it but not the women.

May also have been aimed at me. In which case I will attempt to defend the point that while the top riders of both genders are more than capable of these things, there is a greater drop off in talent towards the bottom of the field for the women - for which I assume is due to the lower participation. As in, the fourtieth best woman has a far greater deficit to Neff, than the fourtieth best man has to Pidcock.

Also, in the case of the world cup races, but not so much here, the mens field go near flat out from the start, while the women seem to have more tactics and nuance with sometimes a slower start. This can have the effect of more traffic around the big features especially in the early laps, which can make them appear less skilled as the other riders are causing them to slow up and therefore take the easier lines.

I'd personally love to try this course, including that drop, on my skill compensating trail bike. Would I do it half a wheel behind somebody else, whilst redlining my heartrate? no chance.

Apologies if I missed where someone has said it but if one of the world's most famous riders appeared to have almost crippled himself on a course I was responsible for I'd want to be seen to have done something about it for the next race, whether strictly necessary or not...

I’d want to be seen to have done something about it for the next race, whether strictly necessary or not…

Signage, course needs far more of it. Skull and crossbones for the dangerous stuff. Or the smiley for downhill, sad face for uphill slogs that old trail maps used to have.

from the VitalMTB forum, which in turn was quoting another source:

If that source is true then the blame lies solely with MVDP..

That's why there are A,B,C and even in some cases D lines. Can't ride it, take a time penalty for an easier obstacle.

There's no need to dumb down the A or even B lines, the best ladies are more than capable.

if one of the world’s most famous riders appeared to have almost crippled himself on a course I was responsible for I’d want to be seen to have done something about it for the next race, whether strictly necessary or not…

The fact no-one else did, and the fact it seems to have been a failure of management / communication / inability to listen and assimilate the info properly - I'd leave it as it was an make sure the briefing is reiterated. There's a chuffin' big penalty for failure on this obstacle, don't like it, take the B or C line.

It's also being confused because the change in conditions made replacing it sensible.

Also as I said yesterday. If Pidcock had been a bit closer, he'd have hit VDP, caused a pile up and could have taken himself and several others out. I know a crash can happen but if that had, and if it had then turned out the error is basically because VDP can't assimilate some basic information given to him, I'd have been livid, 'cos that's not a racing incident, that's dangerously incompetent.

ultimately it's a shame not to see how the race might have panned out with MVDP potentially sparring with Pidcock...

MVDP said he could ride the course with his eyes closed, so to me, he had every line, rock and root all mapped out into some managed plan. my guess is in the heat and stress of it all, this minor change to the racecourse turned into a major oversite.

it's a shame but there's a hard lesson learned.

overall, he's still not had a bad year!

if one of the world’s most famous riders appeared to have almost crippled himself on a course I was responsible for I’d want to be seen to have done something about it for the next race, whether strictly necessary or not…

If the dozens of other riders could do it lap after lap without issue, and an injured MVDP could do it in the subsequent 4 laps before he retired, I would say the course is fine.

Conversly, the wood section at Albstadt a few years back became literally impossible in the wet, it was changed the following year.
Les Gets this year (again, in the wet) had a corner that everyone dismounted for, I would expect it to be altered in the future.

Another counterpoint - video in link below - put the ramp in, and look what happens when the person in front (PFP) chooses to roll it. Excellent save from Neff.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/jolanda-neff-the-team-invested-in-skills-and-technical-training-and-it-paid-off.html

That's a ridiculous save from Neff there.

Assuming the statements are true it seems 100% on MVDP, and tbf it all ties together better that way- the statements from the organisers and the team and the other riders all line up and so does the fact that everyone else seemed to know it.

But still, it seems weird to have the ramp there for all of practice- it just seems a bit more sensible to remove it before the end so that riders have a chance to see/do the feature in the exact race format. It's not just a skill thing, riders visualise and prepare differently.

weird to have the ramp there for all of practice- it just seems a bit more sensible to remove it before the end so that riders have a chance to see/do the feature in the exact race format.

This x 10

The ramp and, more importantly, the drop.

I think what we all forget is just how different the Olympics are to normal World Cup racing - the organisers, team manager, teammates and environment are all a one-off. Small changes in routine and preparation seem to have had a pretty big impact on a lot of riders depending on their country’s race program and overall investment in MTB. Add in the limits around training, travel and what not because of Covid and it must be pretty hard to be 100% on race day.

I’m just happy that there’s serious injury was avoided!

I'm going with the theory that both MvdP and PFP were using slightly shady race tactics in speed checking their biggest threats at the drop.

That’s a ridiculous save from Neff there.

& then the pass on the rock ramp -if you watch it closely she'd obviously decided to carry speed into the ramp to give her a chance of blasting past her rival when they hit it. Full commitment from her. Mightily impressive!

Neff not happy with Prevot it appears.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/jolanda-neff-criticises-rivals-riding-after-tokyo-2020-olympic-mountain-bike-incident

& then the pass on the rock ramp -if you watch it closely she’d obviously decided to carry speed into the ramp to give her a chance of blasting past her rival when they hit it. Full commitment from her. Mightily impressive!

yep - doubling up the rollers perfectly gives her the speed to fly up the rock ramp, and at the top starts pedalling again at full speed. contrast to PFP who brakes in the corner, tries to start pedalling earlier and messes it up - wrong gear, weight too far back?

Brilliant move, superb skill from Neff, and also excellent course design.

TBH, this is kind of what I was expecting from world cup short track when it started - features that allowed technical riding side by side for exciting overtakes, kind of like fourcross but with pedalling.

edit. double post

Neff not happy with Prevot it appears.
> https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/jolanda-neff-criticises-rivals-riding-after-tokyo-2020-olympic-mountain-bike-incident

I think these two have previous, going back years.

I also suggested yesterday that MVDP may have been attempting to do the same to Pidcock.

TBH, this is kind of what I was expecting from world cup short track when it started – features that allowed technical riding side by side for exciting overtakes, kind of like fourcross but with pedalling.

Got to say the mens and women's races have been a bit of a revelation. XC has moved on so much from 15-20 years ago that I 'think' for me it's becoming a more appealing watch than downhill or enduro. Proper skillful and technical riding, with some lumg busting AND tactical mixing it up with others on the course. A tiny bit more technical and we'd probably have the nirvana of what I'd pay good money to watch.

Multiple cross-discipline Prévot world champion said after the race that she and Neff arrived on the rock climb at the same time, and that if one did not brake they would hit each other. Prévot opted to brake, causing her to slip on the rocks.

from the article linked.

Prevot suggesting that Neff pretty much blocked her on the rocky climb after the doubles. didn;t look that way to me. Sounds like sour grapes.

Prevot suggesting that Neff pretty much blocked her on the rocky climb after the doubles. didn;t look that way to me. Sounds like sour grapes.

+1. Didn't look like that at all to me!
edit: Just watched it again - Neff gets to the ramp at least 1/2m in front of Prevot & more than that to the side, secondly Prevot doesn't brake at all. Sour grapes to go!

It was exciting viewing... and so damn fast!

it’s becoming a more appealing watch than downhill or enduro.

theres a draw to side by side racing that time trial format cannot match, no matter how much Rob screams "look at the time" an overtake is always more interesting.

I think I am a bit in love with Neff.

Whoever designed or signed off that course is a genius. That ramp/drop has generated a hell of a lot of media coverage and chat!

Even in the damp women's race, most of the top riders were sending it. Kudos!

I'm no riding god and I'm sure I'd think different if it was me riding it but I'm not sure that drop is as hard as it looks.

There seemed to be a good run in and out and the downslope is almost the perfect same shape as the parabolic flight you'd get by riding off it at an appropriate speed. As long as you don't nosedive to the flat bit (MVDP style, or as Neff was forced to do by PFP) then it's well within the capability of Olympic MTBers, or if it isn't then as I said before there are B and C lines. It doesn't then really matter how much you clear the landing lip by, the slope will catch you almost perfectly.

The line of flight on the pic of the previous page wouldn't touch the ramp, to use that in practice you'd have to be going substantially slower than 'race pace' and so as someone said before I think it was there so that anyone that has an 'oh shit' moment in practice doesn't then have a crash that puts them out. I can see that then taking it out before race day enables people to practise 'properly', but I'm not sure it would really, riding at the right speed I'd bet you can't see the ramp over the edge of the drop.

It was same course designer as London and that too had a couple of blind drops (I had the chance to ride it a few months after) - we were coached and looked at the obstacles before riding and several weren't technically that hard but were built in a way to **** with your head - looking like drops into the abyss but after you looked at them you could see they were just a small gap that frankly you'd have to almost try to NOT clear.

eg: here at 0:23

MVP is one of the most skillfull bike riders in the world . Why would he choose to slow down and roll that rock jump even if the ramp had been there ? That would cause him to lose momentum and time when he is quite capable of jumping it like all the rest of the field .

Because on lap one when everyone's in a big group elbow to elbow and it's a bit nervy it can be the safe option while the race settles down. If one of the riders in front had stalled, fallen, whatever, it gives you more options to avoid them and not lose time or crash yourself. Same as using the B lines on lap one to avoid traffic jams.

MVP is one of the most skillfull bike riders in the world . Why would he choose to slow down and roll that rock jump even if the ramp had been there

dunno but the evidence he did so is backed up by a video of him doing so and subsequent photos of it going wrong ....

He did it that wasnt ever in dispute - its his supposed reason for doing it thats doubtful....

Neff and PFP do have previous form. Cyclocross 2018. Neff breaks elbow and collarbone...

Yeah... but that just looks like a crash as opposed to anything nefarious or dangerous, rider on high line can't hold the high line, loses front wheel, drifts down into rider on low line. Not sure how she could have avoided it really. Nasty though.

I'm with you markgraylish, that course was ace. A mountain bike race in 2021 should require full sus and a dropper, and this one did. I'd watch a lot more xc if it's like this. What a great day for British mountain biking.

As for the drop, the dude just messed up. Extra respect to Pidcock for not running him over.

"Mathieu van der Poel, another of the pre-race favourites, pulled out after the fifth lap having crashed heavily early on. “He went in super slow and I backed off because I knew that wasn’t going to end well,” Pidcock said."