Hope HB.916 first ride review: The Perfect Bike?

Seven grand! You can get a Santa Cruz with middling spec suspension and brakes for that!

Oh, wait…

NAh, that carbon does indeed look incredibly naff.

I'll read all this later but it's on my shortlist.

Tom Howard
Full Member
Seven grand! You can get a Santa Cruz with middling spec suspension and brakes for that!

Oh, wait…

When Tom Howard mentions the price you know there's a problem.

Does that £7k build as pictured, i.e. with the Ohlins etc?

Very bling finish, possibly too jazzy for me, but desireable all the same. IMO not as neat looking as the Deviate Claymore.

When Tom Howard mentions the price you know there’s a problem.

For clarity, the problem isn’t Hope’s pricing…

Does that £7k build as pictured, i.e. with the Ohlins etc?

Yeah. No. Spec is higher, according to Hopes website, you get X01 gears. #internetrummaging

Stunning! I want one. Can't afford one, but I want one.

When the lottery started years ago, I always used to say the first thing I'd do is go to Blackpool if I won, to buy a TVR. Now I think I'd go to Barnoldswick!

The Hope <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">HB.916</span> is one of the nicest looking bikes we’ve seen for quite some time

Cirtainly from the hope stable imo - but it's still not a particularly attractive bike, again imo...... As with all hope design it's a bit utilitarian for my tastes 😜

The dampers (journo speak for fork and rear shock) are both from Öhlins and I ended up running them completely open. It did take me a little while to get them to come to life, as it were. Basically, they felt really harsh (almost stiction-y but not) until I reached a very healthy amount of sag, circa 20% fork, 33% shock. I’m sure faster/better riders than me may like them run less sagged but I think it’s worth saying that a lot of mortals should experiment with running significantly softer pressures than they usually do on other brands’ dampers.

Can you expand a bit on this. You had to run all the damping circuits wide open ie minimum damping high, low, rebound, compression, and run lower than expected pressures in order to get the suspension to perform smoothly . And suspension performance was still controlled?

Seven grand! You can get a Santa Cruz with middling spec suspension and brakes for that!

Oh, wait…

Pinkbike comments section is over there --->

All that beauty and still an ugly bottle cage... Should have been a fidlock (though appreciate the difficulty if it's a hacks' review-bike being passed around...)

All that beauty and still an ugly bottle cage…

bottle cage with no bottle in it always looks naff.

stick a STW branded bottle in it for the photos. Free advertising if/when the photos end up circulating the internet.

@vinnyeh In a word: yes. It's something to tinker with if/when we get the bike back in. I'd like to have got to the point where things were 'too open' and then dial back from there (mainly for reassurance). Stay tuned basically.

Would be what I'd buy if I had the money. Lovely.

Totally biased here, but it is a rather good bike.

Running the -1deg top headset cup in mine, and I am shocked at how well it turns in the twisty stuff - thought 29ers were meant to be unwieldy barges, but this thing rips. Tried it as a mullet and it climbs easier as well.

As for the price and all that, plenty of people do dentist cosplay and buy Yeti's - they are just daft money, and the 916 comes with the choice of an Ohlins coil or air shock, which aren't exactly cheap. £3600 for a frame set, £6k for a bike minus groupset or £7k for an Ohlins/XO1 build is a lot, but not the most expensive these days.

And carbon weave? At least it's not paint over filler.

nice bike but the weight if correct is a bit off-putting, 15.9kg! My Ripmo is 2kg lighter.

Looks stunning, I'd be hard pushed between the raw carbon and the chameleon paint......

Every review of the Ohlins mentions how heavily damped they are to the point where it effects traction. I'd probably run a Zeb if they're as good as my Lyrik Ultimate which I'm very happy with.

15.9kg?! What happened to full sus bikes getting lighter. 30lb always seemed like a good limit to me, but 35lb? jeez I couldn't cope with that in my old n feeble state.

Chameleon is lovely and you can still see the carbon weave through the paint. But it is an extra £500.

Geometry trumps weight every time in my experience. A bike that fits and is a comfortable place to sit is much nicer to get around on than a very light bike with old school geometry.

What happened to full sus bikes getting lighter.

Stopped being a thing about 10 years ago.

£500 for the chameleon paint, when compared to getting it done aftermarket, is a bargain.

Good or bad geometry, you still need to pedal it uphill.

The price of top spec bikes is pretty daft. I've just bought a motorcycle for less than that !

I’ve just bought a motorcycle for less than that !

Is it ‘top spec’? As in would be competitive racing on the world stage?

It looks tidy, but I prefer the look of the Deviate Claymore...more.
It's a shame there's no mullet option on the Deviates.

15.9kg?! What happened to full sus bikes getting lighter. 30lb always seemed like a good limit to me, but 35lb? jeez I couldn’t cope with that in my old n feeble state.

I think the 30lb "limit" went out the window when bikes became 150mm travel FS 29ers with dropper posts and proper tyres, not 80mm travel hardtails. It was always a bit arbitrary as a "I'm not spending £2k on a bike that weighs more than an entry level one" sort of way.

And really, it's not (likely to be) a 2kg heavier frame, so comparisons like "it's 2kg heavier than......" is just saying ...... has lighter tires, air suspension, etc.

Good or bad geometry, you still need to pedal it uphill.

I have loads of times. I'd take a Geometron over an old carbon Stumpjumper for climbing any day regardless of the weight difference.

Yeah I thought the weight thing was yesterdays news, it makes very little difference unless you're regularly doing hikeabike or lifting it over gates.

And it's not just the weight of the bike, it's "system" weight - ie you and the bike and everything you're carrying. If you're 50kg then a 2kg weight saving on the bike is going to have a bigger impact than if you're 100kg. But losing 2kg of bodyweight will have the same impact as losing 2kg of bike weight (ignoring any rotating weight loss). And it's probably cheaper too!

Yeah, well I'm yesterday's news too. Means I couldn't lose 2kg if I starved myself for a month for one thing.
No way would a bike that heavy ever suit me, so... huh. Whatevs 😛

About the same weight as my Carbon Nukeproof Mega 290.

It matters more on a 120mm downcountry bike, but on a 160/170mm enduro bike, nah. Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. 😁

At one point, it looked like World Cup DH bikes wer going to dip below 30lb; there was a fair few running around the 32-33lb mark.

That said, the evolution of bikes has been impressive and the HB916 has to be up there with the most droolworthy of steeds.

For comparison, my 27.5" zerode taniwha weighs about the same and though it makes you sweat that bit more on the ups, you're very much rewarded for your hard work when gravity is your friend

At one point, it looked like World Cup DH bikes wer going to dip below 30lb; there was a fair few running around the 32-33lb mark.

enduro guys are often using DH tyres, Zeb/38 arent much off a DH fork. And the downhill bikes are missing droppers and a massive cassette.

£ for £ I'd expect a DH bike to come in lighter than a true race ready big enduro bike.

At one point, it looked like World Cup DH bikes wer going to dip below 30lb; there was a fair few running around the 32-33lb mark.

Lots of people quietly backed away from very lightweight DH bikes when they realised how twitchy and unstable they became. There's also a lot people on the WC racing with lead weights in or around the BB area.

I think the 30lb “limit” went out the window when bikes became 150mm travel FS 29ers with dropper posts and proper tyres, not 80mm travel hardtails

Pretty much this, though I'd change that to read

I think the 30lb “limit” went out the window when 150mm travel FS 29ers with dropper posts and proper tyres stopped pedaling like somewhere in the linkage was zebedee on mdma

Even as a confirmed weight weenie I think much of the "heavy bikes are bad" comes either from received wisdom or terrible experience of heavy bikes that's 10+ years old.

Not to say light bikes aren't good, would I take an identical bike which was magically 1kg lighter, yep, in a heartbeat.
Would I take 1kg out of a bike by fitting different tyres, probably not.

There was a chap on the old MBUK/bike radar forum who reckoned to a have built a 29ishlb carbon 26” V10 when that first came out, loads of scale shots and no reason to doubt him.

He wasn’t racing on the WC circuit, as you might imagine…

Edit found him https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/12924035/my-santacruz-v10-5-carbon-custom-build-30lbs-page-2

Edit found him https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/12924035/my-santacruz-v10-5-carbon-custom-build-30lbs-page-2/blockquote >

What sort of self respecting weight weenie leaves the sleeve in a BB?

 

self respecting weight weenie

Lolz

Does everyone race enduro these days then? Or is it just the "perfect bike" for the wannabe?

Does everyone race enduro these days then? Or is it just the “perfect bike” for the wannabe?

No, but we're at the stage now where most 150-160mm 'enduro' bikes are good enough that they can be ridden all day on trail centres or in the mountains as well as thrown down an enduro race.

The hope wheels are still pretty weighty?

Lighter wheels can help make a bike feel a lot livelier

(I keep my weighty wtb wheels for uplift days and it's always great putting the mavics back on)

That lightweight V10 is surprisingly sensible.

Formula R0 brakes (bit weak) and carbon chain device are the only two issues that jump out at me.

Apart from that the tyres might be lightweight trail ones?

Does everyone race enduro these days then? Or is it just the “perfect bike” for the wannabe?

Anyone who has ever pedalled slowly up a hill, got cold standing around at the top waiting for their mates before heading down a trail/track/line on a map has I'm pretty sure ridden Enduro. If they're aware and annoyed they were slower than a random 17 year old they've never met down the same, I think that makes the distinction of a race.

Formula R0 brakes (bit weak)

Those things were like putting a stick in your spokes with all the subtlety too, at least, they were before they broke them with the silly race levers.

I notice that V10 thread ends as soon as the bike is finished. Not even a first impressions post. It's probably still sitting in his office next to his triple monitor investment banking setup. He tells clients about his DH racing career.

Pretty sure there was another thread, with pics of him riding it etc, but I don’t think you are far wrong.

Those things were like putting a stick in your spokes with all the subtlety too, at least, they were before they broke them with the silly race levers.

Am I getting them mixed up with the R1 or RX that was a bit weedy (coming from The Ones)?

Prefer this over the Atherton bike

I'll have to win the lottery tho

Am I getting them mixed up with the R1 or RX that was a bit weedy (coming from The Ones)?

The rx were poo.

R1 were the xc race brake, still a good bit of power but definitely a step down from "the one".
The r0 were a little later and a step up from the "the one" , pitched as the dh brake of the range when the "the one" didn't keep up with the competition at that end, they rebadged the "the one" to T1 and marketed it to trail and Enduro - which all those years back was trail heavy not DH-lite (and not even really lite these days).

Then they changed the r0 levers to these weird pull lever things, which were pants, and formula disappeared for a while.

@Adam - You can’t get a TVR from Barnoldswick. You’ll have to settle for a shiny bike instead

The pictures don't do this bike justice. No that they are bad pictures, but saw one in the flesh at Fort William this year. It is bloody gorgeous.

Plus it had the new V4s, and I've never wanted a bike quite so much. Not likely to be able to afford one, but if ever I come into a few quid, it'll be a serious consideration.

Geometry trumps weight every time in my experience. A bike that fits and is a comfortable place to sit is much nicer to get around on than a very light bike with old school geometry.

Agree 100% but I would expect with some decent engineering then I should be able to have both.

Agree 100% but I would expect with some decent engineering then I should be able to have both.

In this case I suspect there has been a lot of decent engineering involved to make it as light as possible while still being fit for purpose. Let's not forget this is a purpose built enduro race bike fit to take on and win EWS courses. The fact that some say it is capable of being an all day trail bike is an added bonus. Granted some of the in house components may be a little on the heavy side but with frame only options the owner could spec whatever they wanted weight wise.

 I NEED to find a chink in its weave-tastic armour. Otherwise, it may well be The Perfect Bike.

Um. You've already pointed out at least two key ones:

internal cable routing, ..... ‘Butty Box’ downtube storage

Granted some of the in house components may be a little on the heavy

This is my point. If their components are on the weighty side then it’s not unreasonable to assume the same engineering team with the same philosophy have made the frame on the weighty side

No, but we’re at the stage now where most 150-160mm ‘enduro’ bikes are good enough that they can be ridden all day on trail centres or in the mountains as well as thrown down an enduro race.

Not if they weigh 15.9kg they aren't.

Not if they weigh 15.9kg they aren’t.

Well I must be doing something very wrong then, riding both my 15.5kg+ full suspension 150/160mm bike and gearbox 150mm hardtail on multi day trips, with full days in the mountains, with hikeabike, XC sections, climbs...

Granted, I think that weight of my bike is with pedals so about 1kg lighter thank the hope, but 16kg would not put me off riding it all day, not one bit. If fact my next bike will probably be heavier than that, with supergravity tyres as well!

What weight would make a bike suitable for using on day long rides in the mountains or at a trail centre? 14.5kg?

Just for the record, I don't care about the weight. I think modern bikes like this are perfectly reasonable especially considering what they're capable of. You can ride them up and along all day and they've all but entirely replaced DH bikes for most people.

I'll take strength and reliability every time.

Just for the record, I don’t care about the weight. I think modern bikes like this are perfectly reasonable especially considering what they’re capable of. You can ride them up and along all day and they’ve all but entirely replaced DH bikes for most people.

I’ll take strength and reliability every time.

Exactly, and it's not just the weight of the bike you're pedalling up the hill, it's the weight of the bike, plus you, plus your backpack, plus your water...

An extra kg or 2 on the bike if the rest of the stuff weighs 80kg is a couple of % increase. Congrats, you'll be up that 5 minute climb 10 seconds faster! 🤣🤣

Sorry for the tangent, but it's a ridiculous statement that a bike of 15.9kg can't be used for all day rides.

Sorry for the tangent, but it’s a ridiculous statement that a bike of 15.9kg can’t be used for all day rides.

Strictly speaking you are correct. And taken to an absurd limit a 60kg bike could indeed be used für an all day ride. It's just that you wouldn't get very far in that time.

Each to his own but I'd much rather take a lighter bike * on a long day ride than a heavier one **
* ideally sub 13.5kg
** 16.3kg with a set of pedals?

An extra kg or 2 on the bike if the rest of the stuff weighs 80kg is a couple of % increase. Congrats, you’ll be up that 5 minute climb 10 seconds faster! 🤣🤣

I'm not remotely arsed about whether it takes 10 seconds less. But I am bothered about whether I get up it at all, and on a gbadgery techie climb at my limit 2kg is a huge amount and would frequently be the difference between success and walking.
( sorry, I'm part of the rare breed of bikers that enjoys the ups and alongs as well as the downs.)

Sorry for the tangent, but it’s a ridiculous statement that a bike of 15.9kg can’t be used for all day rides.

Agreed. Think it's the historical greater focus on weight than there is now - still focussing on the past. Some mates I ride with always compared who had the lightest bike, forgetting that they're all on mediums while I'm on XLs. That simple aspect makes quite a difference. More frame material = more weight. Taller/heavier rider = stronger (heavier) components. It all adds up.

For the record, my two (alloy, XL sized) FSers are 15.0kg and 16.3kg. Happily ride either on full days.

And amen to this:

The pictures don’t do this bike justice. No that they are bad pictures, but saw one in the flesh at Fort William this year. It is bloody gorgeous.

But then I saw the Atherton stand and the bar was set higher for me.

@thegeneralist fair enough, I agree that a lighter bike in general should be slightly nicer on a general all day long ride, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible on a heavy bike.

In the G1 review linked below this Hope review, it says this:

Now, I’m not the first tragic bike journo fanboy to bang on about GeoMetron bikes. But I would like to be one of the few (first?) bike reviewers to compliment the G1 on how nice it is as a cross-country trail bike.

The G1 that was tested weighs 16.55kg. And yet is excellent at cross country trail riding.

I'd rather have a heavy bike with sorted geometry for climbing and an efficient suspension system than a something 4kg lighter where I'm sat over the back wheel and which has suspension that bobs about like a boat in a gale force wind!

Times have definitely changed in terms of weight but it's also great that we have a choice of these super capable bikes with DH levels of performance that can still be pedalled all day, and also 120mm bikes with modern geometry that will fly uphill but can also handle techy, rough descents. I'm not going to tell someone that if they're riding a 120mm bike that "you can't ride down that", same as I wouldn't tell someone on a 17kg enduro rig that they can't ride that to the top of Helvellyn. Because someone will come along and prove me very wrong! 🤣

I've seen a steel starling FS bike with DH tyres and coil front and rear suspension, weighing the same as a small moon, being ridden up a climb that everyone else was walking 😁

Re the weight thing, I was quite crestfallen when I unboxed my new Specialized Enduro and noted that it was a hefty beast, substantially weightier than my 2016 Enduro and was concerned about how my 48 year old legs would cope winching the damn thing up hills, especially considering that I'd specced 25" Wide Trail Minions at either end of the former. The geometry is one thing - having a much longer TT (old bike is a large, new bike is an S4) gives me a much better climbing position, but the suspension feels much less troubled by roots and trail detritus. I'd far rather tackle a challenging climb on the new bike than the old FWIW.

Anyway, Hope seems to have made a nice bike.

internal cable routing, ….. ‘Butty Box’ downtube storage

You're listing these as negatives? How come?

Both big plusses in my eyes

I’d rather have a heavy bike with sorted geometry for climbing and an efficient suspension system than a something 4kg lighter where I’m sat over the back wheel and which has suspension that bobs about like a boat in a gale force wind!

I would expect to get both. It’s called engineering. Every other branch of cycling is improving performance and reducing weight why not in trail / enduro bikes. There is no sensible reason for trail / enduro bike to weigh more than a DH bike

The down tube storage I could do without, but even the cover is machined beautifully. Does help with the routing though.

Climbing is surprisingly good, but there's a few short, steep climbs I can't make yet compared to the 160, and fire roads need 1 or 2 cogs lower. Likely due to the big wheels and 165mm cranks. Mulleting the 916 made it more like the 160 for climbs, but need to try it more.

It's my first 29er and it's a revelation

Every other branch of cycling is improving performance and reducing weight

Increasing performance, yes. Reducing weight, no. Road bikes are heavier because aero, wider tyres and disc brakes. MTBs are heavier because bigger wheels and tyres, droppers, bigger cassettes and a desire to not snap frames.

I’d take all those things over the insignificant difference in total system weight any day.

Enduro bikes can weigh more than DH bikes because they run DH wheels, tyres and inserts, droppers and big cassettes. Only the fork will weigh significantly more on a DH bike over an enduro. Even the frames are comparable.

Each to his own but I’d much rather take a lighter bike * on a long day ride than a heavier one **
* ideally sub 13.5kg

Where does that number come from? I'm not criticising I'm just intrigued as the how you got there and not say 13.8 or 12kg? I seem to recall the old rule of thumb was keep it below 35lb.

( sorry, I’m part of the rare breed of bikers that enjoys the ups and alongs as well as the downs.)

You're not that rare and I'll tell you now, I'd trade my old 28lb XL orange 5 and my own mother for either my current 30lb evil following or 35lb process 153 for pedaling up or along. Sure they weigh more but the lighter one pedalled like a dog.

Some people are clearly just obsessed by the number on the scales and can't see, or will never experience, the vast improvements we've all enjoyed in the last 5 years.

I would expect to get both. It’s called engineering

It's called defying physics. I want a longer frame that fits me properly, tougher tyres, longer travel, longer dropper, bigger brakes, wider bars.

I can't have all that and have it weight the same as my old 28lb Stumpjumper and I don't care one bit because old MTB's are crap compared to these new ones.

I love the raw carbon but for some reason I don't like the bike, cant quite work out why.

Where does that number come from? I’m not criticising I’m just intrigued as the how you got there and not say 13.8 or 12kg? 

Good question. It was a combination of aspiration and what is possible for me in my circumstances. My Anthem is around 12 or 12.5kg IIRC, however it is a vile vile thing on anything harder than a fireroad or easy blue. I totally agree with the posters above that just because something is light doesn't make it good.
My Occam on the other hand.... I *think* is a touch over 13.5kg with the light wheelset, Rekons, new Vecnum seatpost etc etc. Based on my ( admittedly very limited experience on decent bikes) it's bloody marvelous. It does 80km in a day with perhaps 2800hm without too much bother. It sits happily on my shoulder for a Snowdon Double but more importantly it gets me down Cavedale dabless, the Champery WC [ very :-)] dabfull and did 40,000m of descending over in August without breaking*. ( admittedly it had the heavy wheels on for that, so wasn't 13.5kg at that point)

I reckon it is very close to the perfect bike for what I want. It could be 1kg or so lighter I'm sure, but I don't have the desire to spend that sort of cash on it, and I guess I was trying to signify that actually for the first time in 20 years I really really like the bike that I have.

I'm sure a 16kg bike would be significantly better on the downs, but I think it would involve too many compromises on the ups and alongs. So I want to register my view to the manufacturers " fine, make awesome 16kg Enduro bikes, but please don't think that everyone is willing to put up with the compromises for normal riding. Please keep making brilliant shorter travel, lighter weight bikes too "

* yeah OK a few spokes did break due to my dire jumping technique ☺

The occam does come up light but

Based on my [experience] it’s bloody marvelous.

Is the important bit. I think you'd be reasonably surprised to find how well the occam did 80k and 2800m even at a few kg heavier depending on where* that weight was.

*I think this is probably why people tend to find "heavy" bikes unpleasant. Very often it's not a heavy bike so much, maybe a few 00 grams above the axles and especially on the cheaper spec of the same the dampers are less capable (which can easily make a good bike rubbish) but much of the extra weight is in heavy cassettes, heavy wheels, heavy tyres which are often either utter rubbish OE things or so tacky they're almost molten and ill suited to anything but throwing down a hill.

Certainly my evil the difference between an xt 11 speed cassette and an xg 1195 is massive. As massive as the weight loss to my bank account of the same? Maybe not, but it genuinely changes the behaviour of the bike. Adding or taking off a full water bottle is 2-3 times the weight difference but completely unnoticeable to me.

Up until very recently, Grizzly Munro Diaries was doing all the Munros on a Deviate Guide, which is well north of 16kg. He’s now continuing on a Zerode, Taniwha I think, that will be of similar heft.

Admittedly there’s sponsorship considerations here but still, them’s some big ‘ills

Let’s not forget this is a purpose built enduro race bike fit to take on and win EWS courses.

Ah-ha! If this is true then that explains a lot. It's also not the "perfect bike" if its built for that, unless you do that. In which case. I'm oot.

There's some very good riders racking up podiums on the 916 in all sorts of enduros.

I won't be troubling them, but I'll still enjoy riding it.

Let’s not forget this is a purpose built enduro race bike fit to take on and win EWS courses.

Ah-ha! If this is true then that explains a lot. It’s also not the “perfect bike” if its built for that, unless you do that. In which case. I’m oot.

True, a perfect Enduro bike would still be useless as a daily shopper.

I like the look of this, but it'd be wayyyyyy too much bike for me. Are there any rumours of an updated HB130? My 2017 Smuggler is starting to feel quite tired.

a daily shopper.

Still trying to find the perfect one. Come on Singletrack help me out here!

IIRC There was a cargo bike in FGF a few weeks ago...