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Some people’s lives just aren’t straightforward, for all sorts of reasons. The ride they get to (eventually) might be the thing keeping them together in the rest of their life.
Comes down to the "do you think your time is more valuable than the persons your wasting" point though.
Whatabout if they're really looking forward to that ride, and now it's half an hour shorter.
Whatabout if the thing that's holding their life together is straight after the ride and now they're missing it because someone didn't get organized.
And let's be honest, their life isn't falling apart, they've just hit snooze for the 8th time and didn't check their tyre pressure the night before.
"Wheels is wheels" we leave at 18:15 sharp, faff or no faff, late or not. Them's the rules, everyone knows them. It's all done in good humour but it is done that way with good reason, or we'd be stood around chatting until closing time!
That said, occasional lateness with a good excuse is tolerated, but it will cost you the first round in the pub after the ride...
Like a few have said, one off / infrequent / due to circumstances outside their control* - shit happens.
Frequent / habitual lateness - let them know it's not on if they're a mate. If they're a random or just an acquaintence then just let them know that you'll not be waiting around or dont arrange to ride with them when you want to be leaving on time.
I no longer arrange rides with a couple of mates (yes, I do consider them to be mates) due to their inability to be remotely on time (record was over an hour late - they kept messaging to say they were only 20 mins away, then 15 mins, then still 15 mins, nearly there, etc).
I'll still ride with the if they arrange something but I dont invite them on rides any more.
Alternative option for me is to meet at my house for the start of a ride. Then I'm not stood around getting bored / frustrated waiting for them and can maybe do something useful (or just sit having a cuppa and reading a book) until they turn up.
"It's only a few minutes, who cares?" A few minutes isn't what we're talking about - it's the "few minutes" that are actually 15 or 20 or 30 minutes. I've got plenty of other stuff I need (not want!) to do with my time and my riding (or walking or whatever) time is valuable to me - don't be so selfish as to waste that for me.
I wonder if those that are happy to be late or happy to put up with lateness by others have less going on (maybe retired, part time / flexible workers) and dont have the time pressures that some do?
* by "outside their control" I dont mean being too ****less to set off on time when you KNOW the journey will take you longer due to time of day, or having ignored the vital maintenance on the bike that they know needed to be done before the next ride then expecting people to wait for them to fix stuff in the carpark.
Maybe all this makes me a time-nazi as far as some are concerned. I genuinelyt dont care - as the people that feel that way clearly have no respect for other people's time which IS rude AND thoughtless.
If you just ride with people, then yeah go ride with other people if it's not working. If people are always late, just be late yourself, they'll be there when you gte there then!
I ride with actualy friends. They or I would not GAS if someone was late. We always have a good catchup first anyway.
Thread and article is clearly just click bait anyway, to insight a 'discussion'....Next one will be, "so James turned up to our weekly ride with his new dog/kid/someone on a BSO...."
Said, I was gonna take some flowers to my neighbor
But I ran out of time
Didn't wanna show up to the party empty-handed
But I ran out of time
Said, I'll walk the dog a little further than the driveway tonight
The extra mile
Thought I'd send a card with my condolences
But damn, I just ran out of time
Intentions only get you so far
What if I'm just a selfish prick?
No regard
I'm always running out of time
I'm always running out of time
Nevermind, I hit the snooze on my alarm 20 times
I was just so tired
One off life happens.
Reguarly then you get left behind.
My group arranges rides by start riding time and it’s upto individuals to determine how much pre riding faff time they want and arrive appropriately early
For any reasonable sized group ride there are those who need to leave by a certain time.
We have seperate threads for group rides and chat... so of you end up delayed you're meant to inform the ride planning chat.
This allows everyone the same courtesy, we know who's meant to turn up and who just changed their mind etc. ... and allows other planning if needed. It used to be "does anyone know if xxx is actually coming or not"... then after waiting 1/2 hour after wheels rolling they had changed there mind...
Strangely perhaps?? the habitually late ones refuse to use the Ride Planning Chat... then complain when we leave without them.
one of the kids needs a poo
How does this work then? The child is to young to poo on their own, but you are about to go out & leave them alone while you are riding a bike? Can't your wife/partner attend to this?
We have one rider who occasionally joins us who is habitually late. He'll often still be at home when the ride is due to start, and he lives 40 minutes drive away. Fortunately, we all have mobile phones so we start riding and tell him where we are, or where to meet us when he finally arrives. (More of a problem if we aren't local, but normally not a huge problem.)
I think a good compromise is having a culture of the ride leaving on time - but also planning and sharing the route in advance.
I guess this works a bit better for road rides than MTB but some of my best training sessions have been chasing down the group when I've missed the start of the ride.
Can’t your wife/partner attend to this?
Depends. If my partner had had a sh11ty day and our child had done an explosive poo just before I was disappearing to have a nice time with my mates, I’d have at least dealt with it before I left. On other occasions she’d have kicked me out of the door and told me to have a nice time.
I think a good compromise is having a culture of the ride leaving on time – but also planning and sharing the route in advance.
Much as I was very against lateness in an earlier post, I'd agree that it can be ride-dependent. On a regular evening/night ride where there's a core group plus some more occasional hangers on, I'd be leaving on time every time. It's a weeknight, it's local trails, everyone is time crunched, you've got 2hrs to ride, back to the pub then back home. No messing, you leave on time.
For a more one-off ride, say a big day out where you've driven to a trail centre or something, I'd be less bothered about being 10-15 minutes out although I'd expect a suitable ride start time to be set to accommodate the route plus contingencies.
Me and my wife are slightly late for almost everything. We are always trying to fit 'one more job' in... People just tell us an earlier time now so it generally works out just fine.
I'm not late for rides though but I am mostly just in time...
Me and my wife are slightly late for almost everything. We are always trying to fit ‘one more job’ in… People just tell us an earlier time now so it generally works out just fine.
I'm genuinely curious to understand the "other side" of this debate.
How does it make you feel, when you know that you're making other people wait? When I'm late I really feel bad that others are waiting for me.
Doesn't it bother you that other people now treat you a bit like a child, having to tell a white lie to get you there on time?
All you Jonny come latelys, do you have this lackadaisical attitude to timekeeping in all areas of your lives?
Work, meetings, weddings, funerals?
I feel quite strongly about this.
I’m time poor and really struggle with people who are late. If the ride starts at 7pm, by 7:05pm I want to be moving. I’ve likely got a limited amount of time to use and so want to maximise the time riding/running/whatever and minimise the time spent on a car park.
I also think it’s pretty damn rude just to assume others can wait.
Got faffing to be do, or bits of bike to fix? Fine, do it before the ride. The ride starts when the ride starts, if you’re still putting your brake pads in at this time it’s your issue and not mine.
yes @imnotverygood:
How does this work then? The child is to young to poo on their own, but you are about to go out & leave them alone while you are riding a bike? Can’t your wife/partner attend to this?
Came to say just this. If your kid is at "help to poo" age then that's your partner's job that one night.
My general rule of thumb is to not ride with anyone who is a parent to a school age kid or younger.
And, yes, most of my rides now are solo...
for every person who makes the start late, there will be more people who need the ride to end on time.
if you can’t make it, you can’t make it. assuming that the start can’t be changed.
i usually ride alone. group rides are fun but the panic mechanics annoy me. mainly because they leave it to the last minute so that someone else will do it for them. which i would, if they’d arrived on time.
I ride with actualy friends. They or I would not GAS if someone was late. We always have a good catchup first anyway.
Where we my actual friends value my time enough to be on time. And know that if they’re not they won’t complain that I don’t wait.
And don’t you catchup on the ride?
I ride with a group of people for whom I think time runs differently.
There are never on time. I will now only plan rides where there are fun things within a few minutes of the start point so I can go and session a trail or something while I wait. Or if we are meeting at some woods, I just turn up and ride, then go meet them when they arrive.
Unsuprisingly, my riding is progressing much quicker and I am fitter too.
Me and my wife are slightly late for almost everything. We are always trying to fit ‘one more job’ in…
I have a friend who used to be like this. I refer to him as a time optimist.
He would work everything back from the meeting time and realise he could 'just do X' before getting ready to meet. The know X took a certain amount of time, but that time did not include getting stuff out/putting away. His journeys were always calculated in optimial conditions. Therefore he would always be late - between 10 and 30 minutes consistently.
I know people who always turn up early for everything , they even set off well before their planned departure time just in case; early for being early. They then have to hang about for ages waiting for the event to start. Really they are just doing to themselves what latecomers in the OP's scenario do to them. They don't appear to mind.
@chickenman - I'm guilty of this*. However - it's something I do to myself rather than something I do to others so I'm OK with it.
* I do tend to aim for minutes worth of earliness, not tens of so it's a few minutes of kicking around waiting.
Also - social anxiety means I really, REALLY hate turning up to a pub / bar etc early and being the first one. So I intentionally arrive a little late. The internal conflict that this causes is quite amusing, even to myself.
The know X took a certain amount of time, but that time did not include getting stuff out/putting away. His journeys were always calculated in optimial conditions. Therefore he would always be late – between 10 and 30 minutes consistently.
I had a riding buddy like this. I remember multiple occasions when he'd call his wife to say he'd be home "in an hour" because he was (driving on the M6) 70 miles away from home - he never, ever factored in the stupid traffic on the M6 or the slower speeds once off the motorway.
Invariably, he'd be at least half an hour late and his wife would get the hump.
I pointed out he should tell his wife a deliberately pessimistic time then she'd (presumably!) be pleased* he actually got home earlier than expected
*shocked, more likely...
For a midweek local group ride then five minutes wait max.
A weekend ride where people have had to travel there is different. 15 minutes unless prior warning that someone is running late.
Sorry but some people will always be late and everyone else has managed to get there on time.
People need to exercise a little more patience.
But perhaps it would help all parties if there was a time leeway. OK, we're riding at 7pm, but once everyone is there, shit talked, tyres/brakes/jellybabies checked, time has slipped on a little bit.
20 mins is nothing.
If you're getting all upset about it and dare one say 'snowflaky' then ride yourself, or set an earlier time, or even add a set leeway. Here for 7, ride at 7.30.
.
Somewhere in Dave's lifetime I foresee a heart attack coming on. Brought about by getting upset over nowt.
Consistent tardiness is just disrespectful and plain rude.
It's the people who turn with the same issue with their bike they had the week before that really annoy me. Spending 20 minutes the night before prepping your bike and kit is nothing 😉
If someone wants to talk shit for 20 minutes before a ride starts then arrive 20 minutes earlier 😕
I'm only late for stuff I hate doing like work and the dentist. For a ride I'm champing at the bit, I'm so excited. I'd ride my bike all day, everyday if I could.
My general rule of thumb is to not ride with anyone
who is a parent to a school age kid or younger.
My version's better.
If you’re getting all upset about it and dare one say ‘snowflaky’ then ride yourself, or set an earlier time, or even add a set leeway. Here for 7, ride at 7.30.
that drives me crackers. If its that then the ride time is 7.30. I'll turn up at 7:25 ready to go. the eternally late will still turn up at 7:45
5 minutes before 5 minutes before.
Wait 5 minutes for general greetings and chat.
Turn on a tracker.
See you in the pub 🙂
I'll turn up when I turn up*.
This is because it's me and my box of bike tools that will be required to put at least one bike into a "working" condition before the ride. And, as likely as not, I'll be the one carrying out the trail-side repair/donating an inner tube/etc during the ride when the same or other bike falls apart.
As long as everyone can turn up, I'm happy, and if I or anyone does arrive late, it gives and oppo. to crank out the "practising for my/your funeral" line.
* I typically arrive first.
They then have to hang about for ages waiting for the event to start. Really they are just doing to themselves what latecomers in the OP’s scenario do to them. They don’t appear to mind.
Difference there is the inconvenience is only to them.
If I'm running late then I expect to ride alone but I agree with the Germans that one cannot be a 'little late'. There again I plan meeting people in car parks to hand over bikes for a living and being late is unforgivable to paying customers. Strangely I don't plan anything for others during my leisure time.
20 mins is nothing.
But it is if I have something to get back to. It means my ride will have to be 1:40 and not 2 hours. So less riding, less of the good stuff. It means 1/6 of the riding time is spent in a car park waiting.
This is what the late people don’t seem to get. Like TJ says, if it’s 7pm meet for a 7:30 start that’s fine. I’ll be there, ready to ride at 7:30pm.
Ride starts at 7 then it starts at 7. If James is only there for the social aspect he can see Dave in the pub at the end!
20 mins is nothing.
In which case the serially late people should have no issue in sorting themselves out to save that 20 mins and get there on time.
5-10 mins is ok if it’s mates and not the same person being late all the time. That said it seems to be a cycling thing as when it 5 aside kick off at 7pm everyone is on the pitch at 7pm and no one is ever late or faffing with boots etc delaying you.
Where we my actual friends value my time enough to be on time. And know that if they’re not they won’t complain that I don’t wait.
And don’t you catchup on the ride?
I'm rarely late, but I just wouldn't be that bothered if my mates turned up a bit late, and I know they wouldn't be bothered if I was a bit late.
I don't do a regular ride meet up like some people seem to do so I mabye think about this differently than others. But this:
That said it seems to be a cycling thing as when it 5 aside kick off at 7pm everyone is on the pitch at 7pm and no one is ever late or faffing with boots etc delaying you.
Theres a start time for somehing when you book a court or something and have paid for a time slot. Going for a ride is just that. A 2 hour ride is a 2 hour ride what ever time it starts. If you're really that pushed for time to get somewhere afterwards, should you really be scheduling the ride to finish with no wriggle room for getting to your important thing?
But it is if I have something to get back to. It means my ride will have to be 1:40 and not 2 hours. So less riding, less of the good stuff. It means 1/6 of the riding time is spent in a car park waiting.
This is what the late people don’t seem to get. Like TJ says, if it’s 7pm meet for a 7:30 start that’s fine. I’ll be there, ready to ride at 7:30pm.
It means either EVERYONE else who turned up on time will only get 1:40 .. and it also means any planned route might need to be replanned so noone does the planned route.
If someone has to leave at a firm time it means either splitting the ride or them potentially being late.
All because someone can't be arsed to do as they said they were going to do.
Tricky one. Small group of friends and it isn't always one person being late live with it. Big group where the late person is holding up 15 people, start without him.
Used to work somewhere where staff were regularly kept late because the guy taking over was always late. Just 5 minutes but that was 5 minutes he was stealing from someone else. And guy lived 10 minutes walk away.
Theres a start time for somehing when you book a court or something and have paid for a time slot.
In other words - that time has a clear value. Thinking that this does not apply to when it's "only mates" you're delaying implies that other peoples time does not have value.
should you really be scheduling the ride to finish with no wriggle room for getting to your important thing?
This implies that it is up to the people who are on time for things to accept being made late due to other showing up late, hence either getting to their "next thing" late, or building in slack to accommodate it. For those who are time-poor (working people with families which is a lot of us) this means we need to either impact family more, or shrink our ride time to allow for this.
Either way, both of those point above are versions of "my time is more important than yours".
I think I'm leaning towards "life happens sometimes, it's mostly a social thing rather than 2 hours in zone two" more than most of the room.
Repeat offenders, though are a problem. Working along from "a word", telling them an earlier meeting time to riding off without them a couple of times should deal with most of them.
However I'd have thought that a key skill of ride leader / route picker is the ability to come up with a 10/20/30 minute "warm up loop" to get the rest of the group from getting cold / pissed off, picking up the latecomer at or near the start? Yes, the rest of the route might need tweaking to still finish on time, but it seems a lot better than having 19 people standing around a cold car park grumbling.
Theres a start time for somehing when you book a court or something and have paid for a time slot. Going for a ride is just that. A 2 hour ride is a 2 hour ride what ever time it starts. If you’re really that pushed for time to get somewhere afterwards, should you really be scheduling the ride to finish with no wriggle room for getting to your important thing?
It's a red herring though. If people can be organized enough to get to work on time, get to a 5-a-side on time, etc. Then they can get to the start of a ride on time. Why does it matter whether it's making your mate wait in the car park or losing your slot at the astro pitch?
Maybe they have left enough time, maybe they're organized enough that they know what time they will finish the ride, and won't be leaving the next person waiting.
That and I think we're talking about the difference between someone being 5-minutes behind when someone says "11am at the M6 Toll services for the annual Lakes Trip", that's excusable. Vs the kind of people who are consistently late for the 9am ride at the local trails, or the Monday night pub ride*.
If James is only there for the social aspect he can see Dave in the pub at the end!
If he's sociable, why isn't he there for the "meet at 7:00 for 7:15 rolling" bit, he's not being social, he's making his mate stand around in a car park on his own, that's not 'social'. Or if it is in his mind it's back to the selfish argument, valuing your own experience ahead of everyone else. The person waiting blocked out that time for being social and riding too. If they wanted a half hour later start time they could have spent half an hour with their family / other friends / dog / cup of tea/internet smut rather than getting there for the agreed earlier time.
*other pub rides exist, I've no idea how punctual Binners is.