I now have some powered Elite rollers too. The effect is subtle and the onboard power meter is hopelessly optimistic.
I am very tempted by crank based power, I've been relying on consistent tyre pressure etc. in an attempt to make some sense out of my virtual speed (although the Elite power curve is extremely flattering, apparently I have an FTP of 370W 😂) but deep down I know it is just guesswork.
Three hours on the rollers is OK
Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!!
Rollers are nothing like a turbo. You move a lot and get out of the saddle. And of course spend time trying not to fall off. Just need to take your mind off the boredom and a classics race does that. <br />The elite rollers read about 30W too high based on my Assioma, they do, however estimate cadence accurately.
Z2 thread is back!
I can do 1 hour Z2 like it's nothing if I have something to watch, footy live doesn't work as I focus on what minute is on and it feels so long, nor does switching between YouTube vids, Breaking Bad got me through so many hour sessions earlier this year, 1 episode and its nearly done, but I know longer sessions are needed more, 2 hours is fine as well if I can get through minutes 45-75 without being distracted as it's only then, breaking bad failed somewhat here as you switch between 3 episodes, and my brain goes we have 2 episodes to go, same with cycling if I can see how many km is left and what the parcour is, but ticking off Zwift routes for XP helped weirdly, as it was a goal of somewhat to tick them off,
Timely thread bump!
I’m procrastinating wildly over getting going again.
But did last year work? Unequivocally yes.
It all culminated at the Tour of Cambridgeshire fondo 100.
I ended up doing 248w average and 284np for 4h30.
But because I got dropped out of the lead group on the first rise, I actually hit one of my main goals for 2023 which was to do 300w np for 2 hours with 309w np 🤣
Regrettably, what I discovered is that at those kind of speeds, even that’s not enough watts to
overcome aerodynamics and hills at 15 stone so I basically lost all interest in cycling.
There’s a load of lads in our local circle who refer to themselves as ‘Fast as F’ and it just peed me off that they were getting their rocks off over ‘fast’ rides that were like 205w average and 230w np for a couple of hours. I mean, purleeeeease! Those are Z2 numbers 😉
I realised genetically I’m not the right frame to be a cyclist.
Training 10-12 hours a week made me really hungry so I didn’t even lose any weight. Or even tone up very much to be honest. I just got very good at pushing pedals down.
So I bought a Chinese mini ADV motorbike and spent the summer riding with an engine instead 🤣
I also got back into fishing which has lead me down the road of wanting to learn spear fishing and so am swimming a couple of times a week in the local pool.
So now, I’m pretty sure there’s no residual fitness left from my stonking form in June and I want to finally, after 2.5 years of trying, lose the weight that’s holding me back on the bike.
With that in mind, I think Zwift will be reactivated this week and I’ll try and fill in days between swimming with Z2. Seems there’s even a few new routes to tick off. I may throw in a weekly Zwift race just to help with lactate clearance as that should help my underwater swimming.
Goal is loosely Dirty Reiver ‘24 so with one month blocks, I’ve got room for Base/Base/Base/Build/Build and a short peak.
Data wise I have no idea where I am at so will see what the first few rides bring.
Better see if the new puppy has eaten all the turbo wires 🤣🤣
i better get a ride in with you now while you're at your worst 😀
You boys are machines. I've just restarted Zwift. Did an hour last night, mostly Z2 and averaged about 130w. It was a random Watopia ride and the few sprints I did that lasted 30-40 seconds, I couldn't manage anything more than 450w for that time. Going to be a long hard winter if I'm to get fitter and stronger.
With regards to decoupling, presumably I couldn't measure that as I don't have a power meter? Or is there some mathematical alchemy that coughs up a useful number?
I've been trying to do a couple of hours a week (time poor, generally) at zone 2, though strayed slightly over (Ave HR was 117, my max z2 116). 30 miles in 2hrs 7mins. Would it be worth stopping the ride at the end of hour one, then recording hour two, to get some comparison, or am I overthinkng it?
zoned out to some helmet cam footage of the Tour of Flanders
I cannot watch other people riding when I'm on the rollers, because when they go around corners...
@chives Yeah, decoupling needs two numbers (the work you are doing V the cost to the body) so is tricky without a power meter. You could use speed but probably only a velodrome would give accurate enough conditions. <br />And it depends if you’re wanting easy or progressive Z2 🤣<br />For the former, just stick at that HR and ignore everything else. <br />For the latter, you want to actually ride at the ‘talk test’ intensity and just record your HR to see how stable it is. Once you can do talk test for 2 hours without your HR increasing towards the end you then need to find other ways to stress your body (add time, frequency or intensity to your week).
I cannot watch other people riding when I’m on the rollers, because when they go around corners…
<br />🤣
I almost panic grabbed the brakes yesterday as they came up behind some stopped traffic at speed
I once jumped to head the ball while running in a gym & watching a footy match on screen 😅
Do any of the training apps/programs that control trainer resistance according to heart rate limits? I see that zwift doesn't saying that heart rate doesn't respond quick enough to power changes, although IMO that really doesn't count for zone 2, that should only Impact interval workouts. Plus I find zwift quite irritating for training, I find the disconnect between the trainer resistance and the virtual terrain a bit off putting. I think they need some much longer flat and rolling loops.
I use Zwift and a Wattbike - the link between resistance/power via gear shifting/terrain and HR is instantaneous on this setup.
I find zwift quite irritating for training, I find the disconnect between the trainer resistance and the virtual terrain a bit off putting.
Ah. Do you mean when you're in ERG mode and the climbs/descents don't align with increases and decreases in resistance? Zwift were supposed to be introducing terrain-based workouts but they've not appeared yet.
There's plenty of flat routes in zwift..
I hear what you're saying. I get annoyed (well, not really, but...) When the workout ramps up but I'm going downhill!!
DrP
Would reducing the trainer difficulty help?
think I'm back, bit on an enforced lay off, with whatever this was
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/diagnose-my-leg-issue-ianad/#post-13024814
3 weeks since my last ride, finished about as fast and fit as I've ever been, but it's got dark, cold and wet quickly, will ease in, tick off some of the new strava route badges
I did quite a lot of Z2 stuff last spring… with a weekly Zwift race at Z5 it worked well for me. I maintained the Z2 focus into spring, but without the weekly Zwift race as the weather was nice. By summer if felt I had no top end. Re-introduced Zwift, albeit with a lot more threshold work and have since got back to where I was in the Spring. Now 3 weeks into Build Me Up, as I wanted a bit of forced structure. Will probably go back to something more polarised once I’ve worked through that to maintain fitness
I'm still very torn/confused about my shorter mid-week Z2 sessions.
Loooooong story short, with my midweek routine and the rehab stuff I'm trying to do in the gym, it's really difficult to do more than two sessions on the rollers, and usually no more than 90 minutes.
I'm sure ISM suggested 90 minutes was the bare minimum required to really achieve any benefits, so I'm wondering if I should just switch to sweetspot workouts mid-week and try a bit harder to keep my weekend rides Z2 (winter gravel rides tend to become CX rides very easily!).
Hence, I think, the focus on the 'time crunched cyclist' and all the excitement about sweetspot in previous years, seems to have evolved from 'what can I usefully do with 45 minutes before dinner' etc. etc. 🙄
I was told that Z3 is about the same benefits as Z3 but you can do it in less time.
Hey folks, thought this might be interesting - my goals are much earlier this year than the last few, with an ultra race in April, so decided to do primarily dedicated zone 2 blocks since November.
Total of 18-20hrs per week, with either 3 or 4 "on" weeks in the block depending on timing (i.e I wanted xmas as a rest week, and need to push current block to 4 weeks, so I can get a rest week before a trip to Lanzarote!). Mid-week usually consisted of Mon-Thur 3hrs per day (most of the time split into 2x90mins), with a big ride on Saturdays (either outside, or 8-10hrs on turbo in z2).
Here's a graph showing the increase in power for any given Z2 HR(or conversely, lower HR for same power) comparing the last 3 months with ALL of the preceding year. It's around 20-40w increase across zone 2, depending on higher/lower bounds (at around 81-83kg).
(sorry, snipped the Y axis : it's % of max hr)
8-10hrs on turbo in z2
😳👏
I've recently been doing some Zwift sessions in one gear with trainer difficulty off, forcing me to stay in zones 1/2, regardless of route profile.
Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
Could your heart rate be slightly too high to begin with?
I get so much conflicting information about what Zone 2 actually is. I eventually found out about drift tests and have been using it to try to fine tune what heart rate I should actually be aiming for during my zone 2 work.
https://runningversity.com/heart-rate-drift-test/
Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR
Stay below that, if you’re drifting over back off a touch so your HR levels and your power drifts downwards
I bought an ebike to commute the 40 mile round trip to work 4 days a week instead of the 2 I was doing on a bike. I wasn’t expecting much fitness improvement, it was more to avoid driving. Being on an ebike meant I was in z2 a lot, unless I was belting along on the flat. Anyway, I’d arrive at work a lot less sweaty and not battered. I looked like I’d lost a fair bit of weight, and my Sunday ride fitness was loads better, so a nice ebike road might work- you go at a decent pace, get outside and stay in Z2.
Only way I can do it is on a Zwift group ride at a pace that matches what Z2 is for me. Otherwise the boredom far outweighs the joy despite the benefit, and I would rather try and approximate a Z2 run or climb a hill or something
I've only just caved in and started Zwifting in the last couple of weeks, I can see the appeal but it's quite easy to get sucked into the habit of flogging yourself unnecessarily, I've not tried group rides yet, but I have tried a couple of ramping workout sessions just to see how I am able o hold a given target power. Because it seemingly estimates default zones based on power not %HR I reckon my Zones are all currently a bit high, last night it suggested I need to do a ramp test to recalibrate my zones.
Having said that after I'd done a 25 min ramping workout that topped out at Z6 I just sat and span round wattopia for an hour at about what my normal Z2-Z3 HR level is IRL, mostly ignoring the wattage, and it was OK, it's just hard to resist jumping on as a big groups come by or chasing people down, but I just don't have the legs for it currently and that isn't why I've taken Zwift up.
I still think I'd struggle to do the 12hrs a week on a trainer regime described a page back, but I suppose if the goal is to cram in massive Z2 volume irrespective of weather and around a normal life, that's just what you have to do right(?).
I’ve been trying to do this in a spin bike at the gym. Bruised ribs keeping me off the mtb.
Anyway I can’t seem to stay in zone 2, I run into zone 3 someway around 25mins. The remainder of the hour is spent with my heart rate tracking up and down between the two.
Is this just you solo on a spin bike, or a led session? IME the Gym bunnies that lead spinning classes tend to be trying to get attendees to dip in and out of Z4/Z5. But do you want to be just holding Z2? If you're trying to maintain strength/stamina for a return to real life MTBing perhaps a bit of ramped up efforts with recovery inbetween is appropriate?
the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.
jam-boFull Member
the paced rides on zwift are great for this sort of thing. pick the right bot for the power output you want and there is enough movement in the group to keep some interest.
+1. I do these a few times a week, on my Wattbike. I do have a few custom 60 min Z2 workouts, but find them really boring, just spinning along in ERG mode and keeping the Zwift Companion App needle in the blue Z2 Power zone.
My Wattbike setup has Zwift on Ipad, Companion on phone and Spotify on Air pods. I find that a paced ride of 60 mins passes pretty quickly, with other riders, hills, gears etc, compared to the monotony of an ERG workout of the same duration.
Can’t remember where I read it or if/how accurate it is, but believe it’s something like 0.75 x Max HR
I should have worked this out earlier, using that calculation, Zone 2 for my age is around 123bpm. Now for the most part I try to keep my heart rate at around 110 to 115bpm, which is what my garmin + chest strap is telling me. The last session my heart peaked at 136bpm twice during the session but the average is given as 118bpm. Either the calculation is incorrect or I have my thresholds set incorrectly.
I think if I have go slower, I'll lose the will to live. I tend to listen to pod casts as a distraction, no amount podcast will distract me from a slower pace.
I'll be back out riding my bike soon, but would like to keep this up for the odd session in the week when I'm short on time. I intend to have a spin bike in the garage and def off the gym (at least in the summer months) subscription.
I generally use ERG to help pace the Z2 stuff, set at varying intensities between 56-75% FTP.
Have to watch the HR dosn't drift above target (I use the three zone polarised model) and knock the intensity down if it strays (fatigue etc).
There's also a calculation that takes into account your resting heart rate as well as your max heart rate. When I used that one I suspect it was slightly on the high side based on doing a drift test.
https://theathleteblog.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/
I think if I have go slower, I’ll lose the will to live.
can you not just change gear ? My HR Z2 is 120, with an upper limit of about 135 and lower about 110. I can do an hour on Zwift workout at a cadence of about 90rpm and120bpm in either ERG or using Wattbike gears on a pacer ride - late 50's and not very fit.
Worth a watch:
RE: Zone 2 in Zwift. I tend to do three things:
- For 90mins Z2 sessions, I try to find a high-end group C ride(2.8-3.2wkg), either 90mins or 60(plus 30 extra at end), then ride in the bunch. Favorites are the 12.05 DIRT 90min rides.
- For 3hr Z2 sessions, either try to find a B-group 100KM ride (and top it up), or join Yumi (2.9wkg) for the time. There's a decent 100km 3R steady state ride (B or C) at 1745 on Wednesdays.
- For 8-10hr Z2 sessions, I tend to start with a morning 100-160KM C ride (2.5-4.5hrs), then when that's finished join Yumi for the remainder. For those I usually have 2 or 3 coffee stops for toilet, and then 15mins proper stop for lunch and a coffee. Decent rides are all around 7am on a Saturday (Evo being the best bunch out of those ones).
Key things for me are: don't do completely flat routes, even something like waistband is better than the tempus fugit. You need to the small rises and changes in gradient to help you move around the bike and adjust cadence etc. I also hardly do ERG for the same reason, as definitely prefer the small changes in power and cadence to keep feeling comfortable on the bike.
i think your Z2 would be my Z-dyingmyarse
You do 8-10 hours on a turbo? 😱😱😱😱😱😱
So glad people are all different, I get bored after an hour and can only last that long if I do a race which certainly won't be zone two.
I’ll add that I don’t join the spin classes, it’s just me later in the evenings.
If I calculate Z2 using my resting heart rate, then it suggests that the high end of z2 is around 132
I had a pop at doing one of the condensed ramp tests last night, my FTP came out lower than I'd have liked, but I wasn't surprised. I just couldn't hang on above 200W and shifting position/dropping gears to try and up cadence simply messes with ERG mode and then I kind of lost my rhythm, finished the test, but it wasn't exactly a stunner. I think I'll do another one in a couple of weeks, maybe when I'm better rested/prepared.
I've not been able to do the miles I'd have liked during the last few months and I'd already noticed a general drop off in strength during the summer. Having picked up Zwift a bit late, I'm just trying to make sense of how to use it constructively. it feels like I can get in in 60-90 mins 4 or 5 evenings a week, but I don't think I want to spend all of that time just bulking out my Z2 time.
I think a lot of the issues I currently have come down to the fact that Zwift doesn't really seem to pay much attention to HR, it looks at Watts and W/kg so the 'Zones' I'm used to, based on HR don't really align, and I'm not used to training to power.
Hopefully now it's got a recalibrated idea of my FTP Zwift will adjust things accordingly(?)
So I think I'll try a couple of the paced rides, at a 'Z2' power level (Circa 2W/kg for me I think), and I might start trying the 'FTP builder' and/or 'Climbing power' focused Workouts.
Or does it all HAVE to be Z2 to build/maintain endurance?
Will I be doing myself more harm than good mixing things up like this?
I suspect any biking will be good, but it may not be the focussed good you are looking for.
I'm new to Zwift and can't quite get my head round it - laptop is out of reach so I'm ignorant whilst riding as people give me thumbs up and I can't do anything back.
I'm finishing work soon and going to see how long I can ride round on Zwift at zone 2 and a bit of 3...trying to build a bit more endurance of time in saddle and miles clocked...
You do 8-10 hours on a turbo?
I've done the Uber Pretzel in Zwift which was 7 hours and 6 minutes for 88 miles and 7,841ft of climbing. It wasn't a pleasant experience