[Closed] Zee rear mech : chain growth issue -1x10 with 32t and 11-36

Are you sure you've got the right version, as there are a DH & FR types that cover different cassette ranges?

Is the clutch mech too tight? you can get in there and adjust it.

Probably doesn't help you but mine works fine 1x10.
Running a 32 front and 11-40 on the rear, it's the FR one.
Sounds like you've got the DH version...

It only just worked on my Spitfire with a new chain. Once the chain was a bit worn and the mech a bit used (so more friction in pivots) it couldn't take up the slack properly in the smallest sprocket. Switched to medium cage SLX - much better. Zee works great on the hardtail with the same 11-36 cassette.

What bike is it on?

Dh version with 32 x 11-36, works fine here, on a bike with 430mm chainstays.

DH and FR version makes no difference to chain slack, the cage length is the same.

And yep, basically, it's a very short cage and not long enough for all bikes- IIRC it's the cage from an M810 Saint mech, which obviously wasn't designed for wide range cassettes.

Only solution is a smaller cassette or a different mech I'm afraid. Or different cage. Or different bike, but.

I think the Zee rear mech is, judging by the amount of comments on here and my own experiences, the worst product Shimano has made in the last decade. It's so bloody finicky - and then the clutch breaks. SLX is a far better option IMO.

The issue is nothing to do with the range of gears, or full sus chain growth. It's probably nothing to do with you having the wrong version - DH or FR - either. NB the only difference between the two is in the B link plate. Just changing this small piece can alter how much chain slack the mech can accommodate. The problem that some people have with Zee mechs (and why they're so finicky) is to do with where the B-tension tab is positioned on your frame's rear dropout. A tiny difference in this puts the mech at a different angle which will either allow it gather in enough chain, or not. On Shimano's recent derailleurs, the B tension tab on your frame doesn't actually locate the B tension screw, it positions the B link plate. So there is no adjustment here, unfortunately.

I know this because I moved my drivetrain from a hardtail frame (mech didn't tension properly) to a full sus frame (which ought to be more troublesome because of chain growth issues) and it's now perfect.

So as far as my fettling has gone, I think that if Zee doesn't work for your frame then you just need to swap it for something that's been designed well to work with all frames (see my SLX comment above). I suspect there might be potential for a B-tension / B link plate mod (You want the derailleur to be positioned further backwards / anticlockwise), but I'll leave that up to you.

Can be hard to get it working properly with a range extender as well

I went through two trying to get my 5-spot working. Ended up with an XT medium cage and Rad Cage.

The Zee worked fine on a basic 36t cassette tho

You need to adjust the screw that pushes the mech body away from the chainstay to take up that small sprocket slack, not sure what it's called. Or loosen the mech fixing bolt and tighten it back up whilst angling the mech down a bit, so the stop pin isn't touching the hanger.

I'm having this exact same problem too. Will be swapping to a medium cage Slx soon I think.

Used to have a zee on my Jekyll. Was very picky with chain length and set up but seemed to work 'ok' for a while.

The after a few months i managed to wrap 2 around my cassette within 60 minutes, completely obliterated both mechs and ~£100 or so in the process...

Jekyll does seems to have some significant chain growth which is what I beleive caused this but take it as a warning, these mechs only place nice with some bikes.

Switched to medium cage xt and that was much better!

Northwind - Member

Only solution is a smaller cassette or a different mech I'm afraid. Or different cage. Or different bike, but.

Or this fellow:

http://www.oneupcomponents.com/products/radr-cage

Thanks everyone, appreciated. I have the (supposed) 11-36 version indeed. Frame is a Commencal Supernormal HT.

I just think I have been unlucky with frame design compatibility. I should have gone for SLX or XT.

Shimano ought to not market it as 11-36 compatible as it clearly not always is, but not a big deal. I wonder if changing the B screw for a longer one (if that exists!!) would help ?

FWIW I too have this issue currently on a 456 Carbon.

Erm, see my post above. That sorted the slack small cog thing for me.

I had other issues, mechs twisting, and won't touch another zee now.

glasgowdan, I have just loosen the mech as you suggested and angled it towards the back and that has helped a bit, it's halved the problem, so thanks, I might be OK to live with it.

I've bent three zee mechs on two different bikes. They can't deal with chain growth. Worst was on my large alpine where it lasted 4 months.

All three bent across the main steel body twisting the cage outwards. All three cages are fine.

So are we saying a zee might be fine on a hardtail with a downhill cassette, but anything else and it's bobbins? 🙂

Well done Shimano. One of your less lucrative products I imagine. Not tried a warranty return with a bent body, but a collapsed clutch was replaced with a new mech no quibble.

Using a Zee with the RADr cage and it is indeed the most sensitive mech to cable tension I've ever used. It just isn't linear, I'm on a 11-42t 1x10 OneUp conversion and it just cant get the mid-range shifting click-on. Starting to think I need to switch out to SLX/XT GS at (more) expense than I'd bargained for.

Anyone know if Saint suffers the same?

I set mine up in a couple of minutes, in exactly the same way i always have with other mechs. Shifts flawlessly through the range.

Lots of nonsense spoken above. Just set it up right. Extra B-tension if you need to; not ideal but it works. Zee with an 11-36 on my Mega needs the B-tension almost maxed-out to give tension in the smallest cog.

Just to add, that I have Zee FR mechs on two hardtails, both with 11-36, no messing with B-tension and had absolutely no issues. It sounds like the OP's issue is simply dealing with chain growth on some full sus designs

While we're on chain length, if I go from a 32t to 30t chainring am I likely to need to remove a link?

Two Zee FR mechs (one a battered 3yr old, the other about 9 months) running fine on two 11-36 cassettes with 40t expanders and 32t and 34t rings up front. No secret tricks to make them work, just set them up like normal mechs. The oldest has been on a SC Heckler and Cube Fritzz, and now an HT, without issue, but I'm sure it could cause problems on other FSs (when first fitted to the Heckler I'd shortened the chain too much and almost killed the mech bottoming out once). It's also twisted inwards through the body, due to various unplanned meetings with rocks/shoddy landings on my part, but that hasn't effected its function in any way.

One of them now has a Goatlink, more out of interest than a percieved need for one. It's given no noticable difference in performance other than that I needed to shorten the chain by one link to stop it skipping on the 11t after fitting. Still shifts well up to the 40t.

if I go from a 32t to 30t chainring am I likely to need to remove a link?

If it's currently the right length then, yes, you should remove one link (which is actually two links really, obviously)

Cheers

So are we saying a zee might be fine on a hardtail with a downhill cassette, but anything else and it's bobbins?

some are, personally I've had mine working fine with an 11-36 cassette on a five, a ST4 and now a bandit.

If it's currently the right length then, yes, you should remove one link (which is actually two links really, obviously)

That's what I thought when going from a 34t to 32t chainring. But as someone pointed out to me, you only reduce the chain path by 1 tooth because the chain only wraps around half the ring!

So if you go two teeth smaller and your chain was slightly on the long side then take out a link but if it was just right or on the short side then leave it be.

The OP is actually riding a hardtail so there is zero chain growth! Something strange must be going on with the mech position...

Good point on the half chainring 🙂

I'm running a FR Zee on a 11-36 with a 30T ring. I don't even use the tension thingy at the back and only rarely drop the chain on rocky fast descents.

Don't forget chains stretch with time/use?

Thanks chiefgrooveguru

*adds nemesis to the list of people not to be trusted* 🙂

Sorry I didn't mean chain growth I meant range.

[i]Shimano ought to not market it as 11-36 compatible as it clearly not always is, but not a big deal. I wonder if changing the B screw for a longer one (if that exists!!) would help ? [/i]

No way can you buy longer B-screws... 🙄

FWIW I've the long-cage Zee mech on my FS and run a 30T front 11-36 with a Hope 40T extender and have no problems whatsoever. But did use the longer B-screw that came with the Hope extender.

I am not understanding the roll eyes thing. Can you or can you not buy a longer B screw ? Genuine question.

I thought there was only one length cage ZEE mech ?

[i]I am not understanding the roll eyes thing. Can you or can you not buy a longer B screw ? Genuine question.[/i]

No, of course you can't - can you imagine the chaos if set screws and bolts came in different lengths...

br, if you're going to be a supercilious **** then you should take care not to also be wrong. The Zee mech only comes in one cage length, which is (super) short.

b r - can you jog on please and carry playing with your ZEE cage ?

Is sourcing a longer B screw a potential solution. If someone with a bit less "humour" could kindly let me know ?

Longer b-screw might help, but I'm having trouble understanding why it's an issue on an HT. What is the frame? I ask because I seem to remember there being a thread on here a few months ago about some niche brand who used funny dropouts that didn't work well with Shimano derailleurs.

The second question, which should probably have been the first, is how do you know you can't shorten the chain any more?

[i]br, if you're going to be a supercilious **** then you should take care not to also be wrong. The Zee mech only comes in one cage length, which is (super) short. [/i]

Strange that, as Merlin list two versions..., including the one that works fine on my bike 🙂

http://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-zee-m640-shadow-rear-derailleur-59278.html

[i]Is sourcing a longer B screw a potential solution. If someone with a bit less "humour" could kindly let me know ? [/i]

Yes, as it moves the top jockey wheel further back so meaning that it clears the (new) 40T cog. Just use any set-screw/bolt of the same thread that is longer.

Cheers br. The two ZEE mechs have the same length cage. It's the capacity that varies.

Warpcow, it a Commy Supernormal. The chain is just about long enough on the biggest cog as it is. It is an unconventional shape frame+drop outs

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I'd just bite the bullet and get another mech. Bird won't fit a Zee when you request an expander cog on a Zero so if pro's don't fancy fitting them, that tells you something. Too hit and miss and just not meant for that range. XT or SLX.

FWIW I've run a Zee before on a cube 1x10 and it ran lovely, so good I've specced a 1x10 and a Zee on the Bird.

Nick

Just looking at a photo of my bike vs yours and the angle that the top linkage is (between the two pivots on the mech) is very different.

Whereas yours looks like 60 degrees off the horizontal, mine is nearer 30 degrees - ie 'flatter'. Therefore 'pushing' the mech backwards and consequently meaning that the jockey wheel doesn't touch the 40T.

There is one cage length on Zee mechs. The only bit that changes between the DH and FR versions is the black bit that bolts to the mech hanger.