Whilst rad, mountain biking isn't all gnar, and by presenting it like that, lots of people are missing out an all the easy fun that mountain biking could offer them.
This does go along to some thoughts I've been having lately after a bit of a break from the sport (putting the slightly clickbaity title aside, anyway). My last ride was with Freeride Madeira, incredible day out with lots of fun and a good balance of scenery vs adrenaline. And afterwards as my ageing battered body recovered I started to think about being effectively retired from the sport. Like, I just didn't want to go do it again, whereas my usual experience is to be busting to get back out there as soon as possible.
Meanwhile my bike back home has a rear brake problem I can't seem to summon the energy to diagnose and fix, and I can't really use the bike safely without it, so months later on I just haven't. I still take the old hardtail out with my kid to the BMX track now and again but that's about it. I feel like I suddenly aged out of wanting to push myself on the gnarly stuff that I always associated with the sport. The recent weather has been making me feel like getting back at it, historically XC has left me a bit cold but maybe that's what I need now, at least for a while. I shall see! If I had terrain like that in the video on my doorstep, maybe I'd be more into it!
No idea about the guy's main thrust about new riders... I have seen a few videos of people trundling through beautiful scenery and they're very nice but maybe not as easy to market as the big jumps and thrill-ride stuff. When I was starting out it was the idea of progressing to all those cool crazy skills that drew me in.
Still love a good XC ride with lots of pedalling and climbing. There seems to be too much focus now days on descending and uplifts.
Most of my riding is old school XC, 30-60km days out at weekends of just riding around, stop at a cafe/pub and riding back. That's why i have the Trek Fuel nowdays as my only bike, it's superb for that. Then every now and again it's a bit of FoD/wherever for a bit of adrenaline, but with so much racing, i rarely get out for weekends.
Wanderingaroundthescenery biking for me.
Ive always felt there are two main types of bikers. Those who use their mtb to go places and those for whom the actual riding is key. Landrover or rally car.
Ive always felt there are two main types of bikers. Those who use their mtb to go places and those for whom the actual riding is key. Landrover or rally car.
That's an interesting comparison, though some riders (including me) happily switch between them. Especially now gravel is a thing.
I've just bought a cheap 10-year-old hardtail (without a dropper) and have enjoyed/endured a couple of local XC rides, just for the sake of doing something a bit different and embracing the limitations.
I'd say the majority of my riding is the equivalent of going for a walk on my bike, just further and (slightly!) faster, and I think that's why there's been such a rise in people "gravel" riding which is mainly just going out for a bimble on whatever bike you have/enjoy riding for longer days out over mixed terrain.
But I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational and doesn't really drive the progression of bikes/kit etc forwards to keep the industry and the people working in it fed. And I don't mean that in a "they just want our money" way, I mean there are loads of passionate people out there that want to develop new and better things and also eek a living from it which I think is great.
@milko9000 makes a really good point and reminds me that I really, really need to get my Stumpy to the mechanic (like I said I would last year) for a bunch of work. Winter indoor training just took up so much of my life I could not summon the energy to drop it off. Hell, I used the beater hardtail more than the full sus last year and those combined were less used than my road bike.
I need to go out and cycle more. I kind of miss it.
I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational
I believe gravel bike sales are still thriving, compared to non-eeb MTBs - and a lot of the marketing seems to be about exploring and social riding rather than performance - probably still aspirational though TBF.
This isn't really mirrored in MTB marketing, to my knowledge. Maybe it should be, eh?
No one is lying to me, I've always done mostly XC riding on my own as thats whats on my door step. Call it gravel if you like but riding bridleways and stuff in nice scenery is great. Always come back smiling from a nice ride on my 100mm hardtail, which is actually marketed as a gravel type bike, Cotic Cascade, but I run it with flat bars and a suspension fork.
That said I've just bought a Cotic Rocket Max for big stuff and love it. It climbs really well as well, so will be great for days out in the peak as well as DH in the Alps and UK stuff in between.
I love it all. Riding bikes is great!
I really, really need to get my Stumpy to the mechanic (like I said I would last year) for a bunch of work. Winter indoor training just took up so much of my life I could not summon the energy to drop it off.
Do it yourself, fixing most stuff on a bike is really easy. Literally just turning bolts.
Sorry (genuinely), but I'm not a video person, so no clue what he actually says.
But I agree with the broad headline. For example, Bikeradar is a great site generally, but I really resent the incredibly marketing-BS-centric approach of much of their coverage. "Why you NEED an emtb (that costs £4k)", "this 160mm trail bike is a must-have", "only £8k? What a bargain for this go-anywhere bike!": while they may not use those exact headlines, it really paints this picture that an old hack bike for £300 isn't 'proper' mountain biking, and you need to give your head a wobble.
I suspect STW is quite a skewed group in a way - we're all experienced enough in MTBing to know that the only real criteria is to just have fun, however you do it. But for many relative newcomers I've no doubt there's this sense that without all the gear you won't be able to do it properly, or get enough out of it. Why do you think we see so many multi-thousand pound ebikes on trails where it used to be £300 GT starter bikes etc?
Oh, and I dragged myself out for the first time in 7 months at the weekend. I'd been putting it off, with "I need a new drivetrain", "need to fettle" and so on, but finally got out to the local trail centre and just loved it. I wasn't particularly on it, but loved how well it flowed and can't wait to get out again - even after all this time it amazes me how much I put it off!
I do quite like Matty and his videos, but he seems to be going a bit heavy on the reverse elitism lately.
I get his POV that people starting out don't need an expensive or super capable bike but there's nothing wrong with these bikes existing for those that do want to ride gnarlier trails than what Matty rides.
The article title is click-baity af by the way 😀
that's why there's been such a rise in people "gravel" riding which is mainly just going out for a bimble on whatever bike you have/enjoy riding for longer days out over mixed terrain.
But I also appreciate that's not as marketable/aspirational
I think you'll find that the industry has had no problem making gravel riding marketable...
I’m afraid this thread is just pushing my growing hatred of overly click-bait-y titles even higher than usual. I watched about 30 seconds of the video and had enough - I realised that no one is actually lying to me about anything. My expectations for STW are higher than this. But I guess this is how the world is today and there’s no point in whinging about it. Even here.
Personally I enjoy the technicallity of riding - but that doesn't have to mean an ever increasing arms race of travel, head angle and armour and uplifted or e-assisted climbing to access the steeper harder trails they require.
I'll happily have fun flicking my little trail bike around local flat woodland trails.
I love trying to extract speed on a rolling blue trail centre.
Technical climbs are great tests of skill.
Getting fit just means I can do more of the riding I like.
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I do think the current bike marketing leaves something to be desired. I know we can have an infinite argument on "over-biking" and people are free to spent their money how they want but some people really are on the wrong bike (or wrongly specced bike).
I've said before on threads about the rise of e-bikes - I reckon the next generation of XC bikes will be the pedal powered pinnacle of the sport. And some of the current gen are pretty damn close. Electric bikes will take most of the bigger travel gnar market.
Whilst rad, mountain biking isn’t all gnar
Just to be clear, the only place where MTB is rad is Germany, perhaps Austria, and NE Switzerland...
I think you'll find that the industry has had no problem making gravel riding marketable...
Sorry to be clear what I mean is that it's not that marketable as "Mountain Biking" and getting that section of the market/demographic motivated to spend money on the latest thing. Gravel is obviously a big trend currently, but with mountain bikes already being incredibly capable and/or fast there's not a lot of innovation to sell to that market to enable them to 'just pedal about'.
In this video I will be talking about some misconceptions when It comes to mountain biking and how all the expensive bikes and difficult trails are not what mountain biking is all about.
To him.
To others MTB is whatever the hell they want to define it as.
Nobody is lying, if anyone is showing a lack of integrity it is people whose greater motivation is seeking validation via disingenuous opinion pieces like this.
To others MTB is whatever the hell they want to define it as.
you'll get no better example of this than to ask a cross section of experienced riders (i.e., has been at it long enough to know what they like and get to the appropriate skill and fitness to enjoy it) to describe their ideal "one bike to do it all".
Someone will tell you how a 170mm enduro is ideal as it can handle uplift/park riding but is "still an efficient climber."
And the next reply will be an XC hardtail which apparently "can handle every UK trail" while being tolerable on tarmac.
Personally I enjoy the technicallity of riding - but that doesn't have to mean an ever increasing arms race of travel, head angle and armour and uplifted or e-assisted climbing to access the steeper harder trails they require
Slight issue with that, having had 13-14 years off MTB-ing and returned: What we used to call XC is now considered gravel riding for some... it's like expectations have changed. So has the bike market.
Buying a new bike recently, I was effectively pushed onto a 29er with more travel. That's how the market has gone I guess. Now my rides suit the FS 29-er bike that I bought... I'm still enjoying myself, and I'm still a big chicken.
But the bike's changed my riding. I wasn't seeking that when I went out shopping in the first place... it just happened. 🤷♂️
Classic victim of bike market 'progress', and I've been sucked in to riding a penny farthing (29-er). 😂
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB. I wonder how much of this hype is to drive the market at the bottom end (i.e. Carrerra bikes with 'wing wang' forks), which might be the most profitable? 🤔
Slight issue with that, having had 13-14 years off MTB-ing and returned: What we used to call XC is now considered gravel riding for some... it's like expectations have changed. So has the bike market.
What I call XC I mean in the style of a current XC format race - although doing that riding in a non-competitive-and-allowed-to-stop-to-catch-your-breath-manner, and it could be on bridleways, trail centres, or your local woodland.
A mix of "made" and natural obstacles/challenges, uphill, downhill and flat; on a bike meant to be equally good at all of it.
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Mixed surface touring might have a cool new name and 14 years ago a contemporary XC bike might have been the best choice. But I wouldn't have used that as the definition of XC.
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB. I wonder how much of this hype is to drive the market at the bottom end (i.e. Carrerra bikes with 'wing wang' forks), which might be the most profitable? 🤔
Richard Cunningham had some good words to say on this.
In the 90's MTB boom, a mountain bike was the thing to have for most people... because compared to the possible alternatives of a 90s road bike 17mm tyres, 44x20 bottom gear, or a hub geared shopper/townie...
you had a gear range that was appropriate for a less than fit person to ride on a variety of grades, up and down; a seating position that was comfy for a few hours and gave you a good view of traffic; brakes that worked; and tyres (all 1.9" of them!) that were still at a ridable pressure after leaving it in the garage for 2 weeks that could handle dirt and going up and down curbs while still working on tarmac.
These days there are so many more options on the spectrum, but the mental association remains.
I'd argue that in 2025, if those are your only metrics for a bike, then my hugely expensive trail bike is inferior in every way to the below bike at ~10% of the cost.
Yeah.
MTB peaked a while ago, imho. I still love it even if I'm no longer really aligned with it as a 'thing'. But would I invest in it if there was an MTB industry tracker? Nope. The trend doesn't look good - reduced earnings, high competition and low PODs, high cost of entry and a shrinking customer base - plus a proposal presentation that promises more than it can deliver, as the article here gets into. You'd hope you'd have got out when it was stagnating pre-covid. Along that line of thinking there's certainly small companies you would want to back, but not the overall industry.
On the marketing side, imho if MTB marketers had more of a clue or better grasp of reality and what customers wanted there wouldn't be so many people struggling to ride gravel bikes off-road*. I mean, how have gravel bikes become the default ATB? How did most MTB brand mess that up? If your riding is about the off-road but it's still ATB more than BPW .. drop bars make no sense. That's why CX bikes weren't the boom thing of the mid-late 80s, 'mountain bikes' were. But in recent years Rapha probably had more influence than any MTB brand in what a lot of people ride for mix terrain stuff.
*I know, some of us like underbiking and I love drop bar bikes that can go off-road. But the size of the gravel bike sales / market for actual light-duty off-road use says to me that the commonly-marketed MTB side of things like FS bikes, goggles, cutties, jumps and all that is being rejected and has been sidelined by the majority of riders (riders as in anyone who ride a bike for active leisure - roadies, gravellers, MTB, tourers, etc).
A genuine question: Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB.
Interesting Q. I think they don't want the uncoolness of a road bike and they want to pull wheelies. It's also not really an 'MTB is cool' thing, it's an urban bike culture thing.
But the size of the gravel bike sales / market for actual light-duty off-road use says to me that the commonly-marketed MTB side of things like FS bikes, goggles, cutties, jumps and all that is being rejected and has been sidelined by the majority of riders (riders as in anyone who ride a bike for active leisure - roadies, gravellers, MTB, tourers, etc).
The game changer for me: When UCI finally allowed disc brakes on CX bikes... thank god! Gravel bikes were born after that I think?
Why on earth do muggles have to wait for pros to adopt things? It's a bit backwards IMO.
Why on earth do muggles have to wait for pros to adopt things? It's a bit backwards IMO.
To be fair, pros did adopt gravel bikes after normal riders already had.
The game changer for me: When UCI finally allowed disc brakes on CX bikes... thank god! Gravel bikes were born after that I think?
Similar here, or when discs for drop bar STIs were available, more accurately. There were people/brands making "heavy, race-illegal, I don't get it.." disc-equipped CX bikes for byway bashing some years before the UCI allowed them in races in 2010-11 (I was one of them). Who needs racing to sell a bike.. Another point a lot of MTB marketing seems to miss.
I evolved from the early 90's XC over the years as fashions changed, more trail centres were built and bikes became more capable. This went turbo after my riding pals gave up for a while as my riding became exclusively trail centres or short technical rides I'd drive to.
Then in covid my pal got a gravel bike so I did too. We really enjoyed gentler rides retracing our childhood routes. Gave me back my XC buzz and now the majority of my riding is from home in the Dales. GB changed to carbon XC and I dropped as much road as possible. Planning on some longer rides this summer so just need to finish building my new Spur and I'll be off!
I had planned to change my bigger bike but I'm not sure how much use it will get now so I'll be keeping it unless an insane offer lands in my lap.
My spanish friend called my bike "a countryside bicycle". She was right.
I often call my bike something shorter but similar. Often around the same time I'm changing bearings or bleeding brakes...
Youngsters tend to want MTBs... but they generally don't ride off-road. It's like they want the coolness of being on a MTB
Any different to people doing a school run in a 4x4? It's just an image thing. They could go off road, but they never will. See also divers watches, etc, etc.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.
It is all riding bikes and all good, I don't see why people get all tribal over it.
I have a hardtail, I do thousands of miles a year from the door, bridleways, woodland paths, trips to country pubs, sunsets and getting some fresh air.
I have a full suss, great for trail centres, days out, holidays and big stuff.
I have a road bike that I used to commute on but hasn't been used in years, I should really get rid of it.
I am about to invest in an ebike for big, big days out.
I say ride the bike you like, where you like, as often as you like and ignore all the background noise.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.
Long before gravel was popular I've seen people on mountain bikes:
-XC riders blast past on a climb with a roadie scowl and no acknowledgement
-"Enduro" riders do the same on descents, sometimes throwing in a trail wrecking skid for good measure.
-Group trail rides with bits on fire roads/ bridleways where those in the back half of the group get the peleton mentality and lose all sense of bodily autonomy, common sense and self preservation and just blindly copy the herd.
I don't think the choice of handlebars makes people dicks.
I haven't watched the video, but anyway... I don't ride much nowadays. When I do I would say it's an xc/ wander around/ sort of ride where am trying to ride as much as possible in the time I have, but still hit as many trails as possible so it's not just bridleways. My xc bike is 10years old now but still fine for this. I just don't hit the big gaps the kids have built though. It's wheels on the ground(mostly) xc not sending xc. Just riding a bike.
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Sure ,on the road ride big but there's no place for chain gangs when there's other people enjoying the countryside. If I encounter a walker I slow down and say hello. Gravel roadies seem to just charge through.
I'm only basing my findings on videos of someone I follow on you tube but some of it makes me wince.Long before gravel was popular I've seen people on mountain bikes:
-XC riders blast past on a climb with a roadie scowl and no acknowledgement
-"Enduro" riders do the same on descents, sometimes throwing in a trail wrecking skid for good measure.
-Group trail rides with bits on fire roads/ bridleways where those in the back half of the group get the peleton mentality and lose all sense of bodily autonomy, common sense and self preservation and just blindly copy the herd.
I don't think the choice of handlebars makes people dicks.
I've seen in various places, some MTB/Gravel/hybrid riders do just that - charging through the place like they own it, effectively bullying walkers (who actually have right of way) as well as everyone else.
...I can't help but think (each time): is that why some roadies get treated badly?
Let's face it, the vast majority of walkers drive to these places - let's not annoy them.🤞
MTBing seems to have a a general perception issue (for both participants and observers), presented as being non-stop Gnarr with people banging on about progression and adrenalin, when it can't all be like that all of the time.
I've got two very different flavours of MTB these days a bouncy one and a rigid one, and they cover quite a potential spectrum of uses between them from efficient long distance trundling to uplifted Gnarr. Hypothetically the bouncy one could "do it all" on it's own, but where's the fun in that? I've had various DH, Trail, Dirt jumper and XC bikes over the years the definition of an "MTB" or indeed "MTBing" is so broad now as to be almost meaningless.
At the same time why do we think Gravel has become so popular? (got a couple of those too); It doesn't seem to come with the expectation that participants regularly exceed their skills/ability and have to take time out for broken bones to heal, there's a bit more of a focus on getting out and about and using a bike as a tool to see the world, rather than finding new and exciting ways to cheat death or serious injury. That's clearly got some appeal to quite a lot of people too...
Of course the curly barred bikes will never compete with the fun of battling your way through a bunch of lose turns, drops and jumps to successfully clean a tricky line on a machine that is a bit more equal to the task (and is only really limited by the meat sack in charge of it).
I guess the key is balance and recognising you don't have to spend all of your time on a bike trying to dance on the edge of calamity, some times it's nice to scare yourself a little, but nobody can live like that all the time... Not really very profound is it?
One thing that concerns me about gravel is roadies bringing their attitude to the dirt.
Kind of starting from the assumption that Gravel bike riders are all just "Roadies" with a new hobby. I'm not so sure that's the case...