Having defended cup and cone in these pages, I now find myself with a problem I can't sort. I have adjusted my Xt rear hub with no problem in the past but now if I adjust the cup and cones they are either too tight and graunchy but still with play at the wheel or just too loose.
I have checked the cups and cones and bearings and all sem fine but just won't adjust properly. Any bright ideas out there?
"seem" fine - that's the issue I'd guess.
POssible your freehub bolt is loose.
Have you tried the technique where you back the cone against the tightened lock nut? Its the matter of a smidge but it seems to be the difference between virginal and hussy.
Yes - wear in the bearing surfaces does this. It only needs to be microscopic levels of wear. Once a cup and cone bearing has worn it cannot be adjusted to give a perfect bearing again as the wear will not be even.
You need to replace all the wearing parts - cups, cones and balls
He may not need to replace them all, TJ, to get perfection; and he may not need to replace any, to keep the hub running just fine.
cynic- al - a hub with rough bearings may be acceptable to you - it is not to me.
a bearing is either perfect or its not - if its not it needs to be replaced
Thaanks for that gents, I'll start with the bearings and cup and cones which will hopefully be fairly cheap|
Serval causes toi this
1) The grade of balls used. Shimano use grade 25. I like using that or grade 10. Most balls you buy will be grade 100 or 300. If thewy are weldite ball they will grade 1000 or somthing like that (utter crap).
2) The grease used makes a difference. Weldite grease has never worked well for me.
3) wear or the cones or bearings. It does not take muche. If you have not tried rpelacing the bearings then do that. Replacement cones may also be need if pitting has started but maybe not. Sometimes you can still get them running smooth with slightly worn cones but sometimes you can't.
I can't comment on your technique or finesse when adjusting the cups so I will assume thats O.K.
FOG you can tell visually if they need replacing.
TJ - you missed "in my opinion" there 😉
FWIW a worn hub can run perfectly smoothly.
You can buy a complete Xt rear Hub from Tweeks £30.00 posted. Then swap all the parts across and you will have
all new-
Freehub body (which is also a bearing surface)
Bearings
Cones
Axle (yours may even be slightly bent)
seals and spacers
and a shiny new qr
Thats what I did last time. Worked a treat and plenty of bits left for the spares box 🙂
cynic-al - MemberFOG you can tell visually if they need replacing.
No you can't - wear can be microscopic
FWIW a worn hub can run perfectly smoothly.
No it can't - not without play. Once its worn the only answer unless youa re prepared to accept less than perfect is replacement
Wear can indeed by microscopic, but does that mean the hub needs replacing?
I think you've forgotten that play can be adjusted out of cup and cone hubs, so if the wear is smooth, i.e. no pitting, they can last much longer than cartridge bearings.
Sadly most hubs suffer corrosion first, but I've seen many running perfectly, if visibly worn.
Look here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stronglight/3544459257/
cynic al - no worn cup and cone can be right. If you are prepared to accept a less than perfect bearing it can be made to be Okish
I had this problem on an old LX hub, one of the ball bearings had not seated properly, with all the grease didn't notice. After seating over tighten then backed off cone was then fine
TandemJeremy - Membercynic al - no worn cup and cone can be right. If you are prepared to accept a less than perfect bearing it can be made to be Okish
OK, how do you define "worn" then?
Most cheaper C+C hubs actually get smoother as they wear btw, as the initial finish is not great.
Cone replacement I understand. But cup replacement? Aren't the cups integrated into the hub itself?
You can tap them out and tap a new one back in.
Hope-apologists don't like to hear this 😉
Cheers. Did not know that.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Shimano offers basically 2 grades of bearing quality. XT/XTR and everything else. Does that sound right?
MOre or less. THing is, sealing is what matters, and that's the same on SLX and above, and even the cheapest bearing will be xtr smooth after a few thousand miles, if looked after.
You are leaving a bit of play which the QR then removes on tightening? Otherwise you get the bearing perfect off bike, too tight installed issue.
"You can tap them out and tap a new one back in"
I didnt know this either.
Where can you get a new non-driveside-race from though?
A new hub.
"[i]no worn cup and cone can be right[/i]"
Pfft. I've frequently used Shimano hubs with visible cone wear but that are still run smooth and play-free when the axle is turned by hand, let alone when it's in the frame and you're trying to detect bearing roughness over and above the roughness of the trail surface via the media of a saddle, a chamois and an arse. Never replaced a cup or cone in my life.
It was mentioned way up there ^ but it's worth mentioning again, before investing in new bearings or hubs check the freewheel bolt.
To do this remove the axle, insert 10mm allen key into freehub and tighten!
If this is loose then you'll have exactly the issue you describe, too tight or play and nothing in between.
I've always had Shimano hubs and never actually had to replace anything, just a service every few years, I've never noticed wear to be an issue despite decades of use and 10s of thousands of miles!