[Closed] Wtf. £400 for a homemade balance bike

Hey, Ulysses won't ride any old shit!

The only WTF here is WTF is your problem with it?

Looks pretty cool to me 🙂

[b]crikey[/b], brilliant. Sublime even.

Cross-Contamination.

next up:
*some traveller just stole my balance bike*

Seems pretty cheap for a framebuilding course to me.

jesus, more money than sense

get a second hand one from that auction site for all the time the kids will spend on it

You'll presumably learn a lot of the skills you'd need to make a proper frame, but won't be shelling out 2K+. Seems decent to me.

The only WTF here is WTF is your problem with it

Seriously?

£500 for a bike without pedals that will see about 8 months use?

Good for bragging rights in the playground, but only to other parents who are blessed with more money than sense.

I think viewing this as £500 to get a balance bike is like viewing running the London Marathon as a rather faffy way to get a big bit of tin foil.

Hey, Ulysses won't ride any old shit!

Best
Post
EVAHHHHH!

Don't think of it as £400 for a bike, think of it as £400 for a solid introduction to frame building?

I live/work in a hipstery part of town.

I have a shed.

Bizness innit.

But I don't have £400.

Tomhoward or a way to make good money out of folk.

It's £400 for a course and you happen to produce a bike at the end of it.... spending 400 quid on [u]just[/u] a balance bike would be daft

I have to say, it's targeted at STW with accuracy that Bernie the Bolt could only dream of.

I'm obviously missing the point but I wont be missing £420 and my son wont be missing that extra 1lb+ in bike weight. 😆

Hey, Ulysses won't ride any old shit!

Where's the placenta rack?

I made my grandson a 10" wheel balance bike from a horrid Argos Thomas the Tank monstrosity and he started mooching about on it just before his 2nd birthday. He's grown out of it now he's just turned 3 (it gets a bit unstable at speed) so he's got a bigger one, which he quite enjoys whizzing about in Stafford's skate bowl.

Seriously?

£500 for a bike without pedals that will see about 8 months use?

Top post as well crikey

"Hey, Ulysses won't ride any old shit! "

Is this the Ulysses of the placenta fame...?

DrP

EDIT - saw the placenta thing on another website, then this post, THEN the placenta post on here...so, to answer my own question. Yes DrP, it is.
Thanks...

I'd have built both of my boys one of these if they'd have been doing these before, sadly they're both far to big for these now. It'd be nice to see my grandchildren riding bikes I'd made many moons before.

Saleem in 20yrs+?

Has anyone handed down a Budgie, Strika, Griffter etc or are they usually rustin in a shed/binned in numerous moves etc?

Its a nice thought but close on 500 is a tad silly.

If that's too much for a balance bike, you could opt to pay them £700 to build a 'proper' frame. You won't get to keep it (it'll be Africa bound), but the skills you acquired to make it will be yours forever...

I'm obviously missing the point

Well that's a surprise

I'm obviously missing the point...

That'll be a first...

Chomp. I wont take anyone seriously who selective misquotes another.

get a second hand one from that auction site for all the time the kids will spend on it

Well done for spectacularly missing the point. Now run along to Argos...

Try and book pretty much any 2-day course for £400 and see what change you get.
I work in a College so that sounds about normal.

Its not missing the point though.

We 'bikers' focus on weight of bikes alot. For me 1lb extra to a small child is a lot. The exercise seems [s]focused[/s] marketing on the dad handcrafting something lovingly for his young child whereas a balance bike for a small child should be light, its about enjoyment- the heavier the bike the harder for a 2yr old to heft around. As I said our balance bike is 1lb 5oz lighter. Its an exercise in selfishness to a degree. its not about pleasing the child but the father first. A sort of ulterior motive.

A BETTER act would be to build a small play house from scratch in your back garden.

I'm not missing the point (as misquoted by the two monkeys above) I just don't think its a good idea. Lightness, ride then go bloody [b]niche[/b] later.

Hora's right.
Rather do the 5 day course for £700, at least you will gain the skills and have the experience of building a complete diamond frame. The 5 day courses say they've a 2:1 instructor ratio, no mention of what it is on this course. Do you get to bend the tubes? Build the wheels? No mention. And I'm buggered if you could build one for £30 in materials.

Crikey's Ulysses and target market comments are spot
I'd rather spend the money doing things with my kid at that age than building them something they'll never appreciate. Just a oneupmanship thing for dads down at the monthly NCT pub meet.

TBA- bandwagon jumping

Its money for old rope perhaps and you probably would learn as much on a college welding course. It does make me wonder if these new "I want to be a bike frame builder" will do more harm than good

I certainly wouldn't be parting with my money especially as some of the newcomers have built 5 or 6 frames after doing a course somewhere.

As for using build your child its first bike as a marketing tool to get custom ,what a cock

A self-built mountain bike frame would last you years and years of use (well maybe you/others as it'd be over -----> if it was me) 8)

How many welds/complexity really is there on a balance bike?

I guess if you have the money then £500 would be fine but if its used they get bashed/scratched etc and will spend a day outside in the rain at somepoint 😀

Hora, as with most things you post about, your wrong.

I don't see the problem with it.

£400 to learn how to mitre, braze use tools etc and a little bike at the end of it. Gives you the basics to go home and have a go yourself. You also a little bike out of it.

b r most of your posts are like chewing gum for the eyes.

If you break down their costs, I am sure you will see a fair but not excessive profit.
When you glance at a price tag it's easy to assume WTF, but when considered the true costs....
Vat?
Rent
Tooling
Tutors
Insurance
Advertising
Accounts
Electricity etc
.... It's all probably quite reasonable.

£400 to learn new skills, set you off in a new hobby, keep yourself out of trouble for two days, and then have a kids bike that might get passed down for generations. Seems ok to me. Alternatively you could almost get a king hub, or two inbred frames, or 4 bikes from halfords.

I also just simply like businesses like this, nice guys, with a passion they want to share.

This is a rubbish idea. It's not even a carbon frame.

At least you get to keep the frame. I saw TBA at Bespoked and just assumed they offered frame building courses, however it appears you pay your money and you don't actually get to hang it on your wall "someone who needs it will benefit from it"

700 quid gets you a course from a pro builder like Dave Yates or even a good 2/3rds of a frame actually made by a pro builder, Ben Cooper could build me a frame for my kid for £400 ,a balance bike

Cracking little idea I think, I would do it for sure. Get some serious knowledge and a cool little bike for Tarquin...

On the subject of balance bikes, Hora - I seem to recall that you regarded £40 as completely OTT for one. And Islabikes as the pinnacle of almost insanely wanton decadence, and ludicrous indulgence of an over-pampered offspring.

Then the £30 POS you bought instead promptly fell apart 😆

Yup, then we bought this (now battle-scarred). If your kid uses them for more than just gentle towpath/park riding they get 'used' 8)

[img] [/img]

There was an article in the Times on Saturday about balance bike racing. Not at Manchester obviously. It was somewhere daaaaaahn saaaaaaarf and all the children featured appeared to be called Sebastien. They'd have sold a load of these £400 ones there 😀

They'd have sold a load of these £400 ones there

Just to reiterate, they are not £400 balance bikes...They are the end product of a two day course...

We run furniture making evening classes. Around £180 or something for 8, 3-hour evenings. Students can make what they want but beginners often make a small coffee table that we have designed to encompass many useful techniques.

It is not the same as selling a coffee table for £300...

I know Kayak. I was being facetious, and indulging my inverted snobbery

I was just saying that by the ludicrously aspirational tone of this Times 'lifestyle' article, and their obvious (competitively neurotic) target market, you'd easily flog a load of £400 balance bikes. Probably with the comment "I'm not bothered about the frame-making malarky, can you just take care of all that bit, and deliver it before Sebastions next race" 😀

Its about building the bike, not the bike itself.
I guess you could go on a joinery course and get to take home a mini set of drawers or similar for the same sort of money.
So yes, Hora is missing the point. Again.

I spent four years and I don't know how much money doing a degree in Astronomy, and all I got was a piece of paper...

The end product isn't as good for the childs use though as a 'cheaper' balance bike.

It should be for the childs enjoyment, a light and nimble balance bike first and foremost not something to make the Dad feel smug that he'd created something.

I'm not against building your OWN frame. I can see many many positives, better to skip the £500 and invest that chunk of money in your own frame whilst giving your child a more appropriate and lighter bike to bash up.

Alot of tunnel-visioned muppetry on here today. 🙄

I spent four years and I don't know how much money doing a degree in Astronomy, and all I got was a piece of paper...

As a mechanic with the skills and equipment needed to build a bike and no kids, £400 sounds a bit steep.
For an office worker with a kid and the money to spare, I can see the attraction as a bit of a novelty.

It's the "gaining skills" bit about these type of courses I'm not so sure about.
First of all, I don't think two days is long enough to become fully competent at any type of brazing or welding.
Secondly, what are you going to do with those skills once you get home without access to welding and brazing kit, a frame building jig and all the other stuff they use on the course itself ?

Just to counterpoint some of the speculation here.

I've attended a course at the Bicycle Academy (Fillet Brazing Masterclass). It's one of the best learning experiences I've had.

For those who are sceptical about being able to braze to a safe standard, it's perfectly possible if you can listen to instruction, pay attention, and have a modicum of physical competence. They are excellent teachers.

They use gas fluxers with the torches so it's easy to see how the fillet your laying is behaving, and also the practice pieces are cut open so you can inspect the braze penetration on the tubes.

[img] [/img]

It's an easy way to decide if you like it or not. Also, by attending the course you get access to the workshop on a per hour basis, so you could prep up tubes, take them there and build the frame up.

It's a damn sight safer than being a have a go hero trying to figure out Oxy Acteylene brazing on their own in the garden shed.

They might not look like the tidiest joints in the world, but with a little bit of cleanup you can see how they soon look very neat and flowing.

[img] [/img]

hora - Member

The end product isn't as good for the childs use though as a 'cheaper' balance bike.

It should be for the childs enjoyment, a light and nimble balance bike first and foremost not something to make the Dad feel smug that he'd created something.

Returning to my own take, from teaching in a college. Our students come to learn techniques, they end up making things for their loved ones whilst learning things, it's not to be smug. Most of them could go to a furniture shop and buy a better made, and cheaper table or whatever but that's not the point.

We should embrace and prize craftsmanship and individuality and there is nothing better than toiling over something for someone you love, we all do it in whatever we are good at.

Even if a kid doesn't realise at the time how awesome it is that their Mum or Dad built them a cool bike that nobody else has got, and some kids WOULD appreciate that, they sure as hell will when they are older and look back on things, I know I would anyway. Stuff people have made for me is so much more special than some crappy throwaway thing.

Plus, kids don't care about a bit of extra weight so long as it's moveable, it'll be amazing fun.

Mikenetic, that looks great. I'd love to do it myself. 🙂

this is a home made balance bike
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billet cnc'd wheels and ally frame. it cost a lot more than 400 quid just in materials! including design and machining time i'd have to charge a grand for it. even has a 44mm headtube so you can fit tapered forks or a slackset...

I remember many rides and adventures on my Striker etc - but I couldn't tell you the detail of the bike other than it was silver. Earlier bikes I don't have a foggy/clue what they were or did. Your kinda missing my point and yes when they are that young they do feel the weight. It isn't all riding in a straight line, theres lifting, carrying, moving, turning etc going on.

However at the end of the day, its everyones own money to do with as they wish.

As mentioned already, I'd rather spend that kinda money towards a proper frame building course where you get to do more than a handful of welds. If theres a market for this kind of thing then great.

At the end of the day, you end up with something thats lovely to look at and will bring a child many, many hours of enjoyment.

As a comparison, most of the work related (IT) courses I go on cost thousands of pounds for a 5 day course. And yes, I learn stuff but £400 for a frame building course seems ok in comparison.

porter_jamie that is nice although I can't see any tyre logos?

hora - i thought you might berate the blue valve caps? (halfords tyres, the shame... ) 😳

Ah- thats a point, the pva tyres are worn out on my lads so need to upgrade the tyres.

If you want to pay it then great, if you don't then fine.

If you think the cost is for a bike then you are completely missing the point. I would love to do it and I wouldn't feel ripped off at all.

It is a free world.

Your kinda missing my point

Would you be happier with the course if you didn't have anything to take home?

If you think the cost is for a bike then you are completely missing the point. I would love to do it and I wouldn't feel ripped off at all.

+1

I'd like to have a go, primarily because of what I'd learn but you also get to take something home. £400 is cheap for a two day course compared to some of the fees I've seen for seminars and professional work courses.

My youngest is now verging on outgrowing his Isla balance bike, so the take home wouldn't be quite so useful.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my boys (2 1/2 and 5 yo) still want to 'be like daddy' 🙄 I reckon they would have been well chuffed if I'd built them their bikes and they could tell anyone that would listen, even at that age.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my boys (2 1/2 and 5 yo) still want to 'be like daddy' I reckon they would have been well chuffed if I'd built them their bikes and they could tell anyone that would listen, even at that age.

Spot on. It might also make up for some of my insecurities about not having a job that my kids find exciting, like fireman, pilot, superhero, bin man......

Well that kills one of Hora's arguments - the plus 1 lb weight difference will be in his crappy PVA foam tyres vs 2 x pneumatic tyres, tubes, rim tapes etc :-). Compare like with like and they weigh the same.

I build my own frames (self taught), did a regular engineering apprenticeship blah blah and (years ago) a night school welding and fabrication course. The night school training was useless in the context of brazing or TIG welding thin wall tubes - not at all comparable to 2 days with Brian Curtis.

Forget the end product - it is a test piece covering a variety of joint types and techniques (with the bonus it can be used for something). This is a reasonable way of seeing if it is a hobby you like without dedicating a week of holiday time (especially if you live 100s of miles away).

Can't see what the outrage is about ,the way I see it is your paying £400 for a course to learn some new skills that will see you walk away with a nice(hopefully)little bike for your loved one.

If I had the skills already then I would definetly be building my son his first balance bike rather than buying something off the shelf.

As it is I dont have the skills but would definetly consider doing the course for that reason.
As a fully paid up member of the working class it wouldnt be a case of more money than sense either I'd be doing it as a opportunity to enhance my skill base whilst doing something that my son will benefit from.

On a similar theme, Mrs MTG crocheted a blanket for her daughter.
If you add up the cost of the wool and allow for her time at minimum wage, she probably "spent" £100+ on a blanket that would have cost £20 from a shop.
I suppose the big difference is that you can't carry a half built bike frame everywhere you go and stand there doing a bit of brazing and filing while you're in the queue at Tesco.

at first glance I thought that I could see Hora's point..

But actually it's a very good price IMO
Mrs yunki runs cake decorating and sugarcraft courses, and whilst she's not charging £400, she's also not giving you a hand crafted complete bike for your tot at the end..

What she is giving is time, patience, knowledge, skills and a firm grounding for any projects that you might wish to take on in the future..
Plenty of people will piss £400 quid up the wall on a lads weekend or a health spa or on the gee gees or some damn fool pair of shoes, or a watch or a telly or a phone..

Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike and two days of YOUR time for a few welds.

Go on a proper frame course IMO

Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike

No.. No.. It.. ISN'T.. It really isn't.
<sigh>

"[i]Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike and two days of YOUR time for a few welds.[/i]"

That's like saying a weekend in Paris is still £500 for a plate of snails and two days of YOUR time.

THE TWO DAYS OF YOUR TIME IS WHAT YOU'RE PAYING £400 FOR.

You seem to see the time spent building it as an actual additional cost. If it was anyone else I'd accuse them of fairly amateurish trolling, but sadly I think you actually believe what you're saying.

It's hard to know where to start...

Hora's missed the point by, like thaaaat much re the balance bike building [b]course[/b].

They look like really good balance bikes.

Weight isn't really that important on balance bikes, as long as they're not silly heavy.

Strider's are shit IME*. Both my kids have ridden them and hated them. They're fairly crappy quality. And the tyres really are shit.

* The proviso being that all balance bikes are "good things", but once you start comparing them then you have to make a call. I'm calling Striders shit.

*awaits #horaclangers to appear on his twitter feed*

There really is a point being missed behind this thread. And as far a tunnel-visioned muppetry then yes, sigh...

What's that quote about knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing...?

And courtesy of google, which is almost related to the thread:

"there is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man’s lawful prey".

Ok. Two trains of thought. I say money better spent on a proper frame course. 400+materials COST is too much in my opinion for a balance bike. Someone else says I think its great value/see the point of it.
Then it becomes a browbeat/you arent allowed an opinion?

Wtf. Should all posts follow a set procedure where everyone agrees or dissent is supressed?

Nice.

I've typed this very slowly;

You are spending £400 for 2 days being taught some specific skills relating to bike building. For a practice piece they use a kids balance bike as there are fewer joints to make/align and it can be done in less time than a full diamond frame.

The actual skills learned are the same as on a 5 day 'build a frame for yourself course', you just do less practice.

You can disagree with the worth of learnign the skills but to keep saying 'but it's £400 for a balance bike' doesn't make people think you understand what's beign sold.

How much for the stabilizer building course?

You're right Hora. Its like North Korea around here nowadays!!!

Or Nazi Germany

[img] [/img]

call the cops

At the risk of getting flamed, I don't think it's that bad.

If I had kids and the cash, then I'd be tempted. It'd be good fun to understand a bit more about building bikes as well as getting something unique.

As other have said people spank away similar money on much more wasteful stuff like getting hammered for a weekend. I also don't get the obsession with what other people spend their money on. If they've got it, think iybe a good thing to spend their money on, then who cares? If you don't think its good value for money don't do it!

Kicking it off with...

"Wtf. £400 for a homemade balance bike

Now you too can piss money up the wall"

...was never likely to lead to balanced debate. You didn't kick it off with "Hmm... I'm not sure that's the best way to spend money to learn to braze" or "That's an interesting marketing angle - they've aimed that at a distinct demographic haven't they"

No.

You shot off with a pile of over-opinionated drivel.

"[i]you arent allowed an opinion?[/i]"

There's having an opinion and there's obstinately refusing to see beyond the bit that you choose to see.

In the "you aren't allowed to?" vein, aren't people allowed to offer something that a sufficient number of people will see sufficient value in to warrant the asking price? You started this business of complaining about the damn thing, after all, and did so in a rather aggressive and hyperbolic manner; it seems a bit childish to then start crying because people have subsequently expressed the opinion (aren't we allowed to?) that you're being a drongo.

500 quid plus accommodation etc for a balance bike and a load of skills that'll last me a lifetime sounds fair to me...

However the wife says once I've looked at the cost of a jig, torch, workshop, insurance etc I'll realise its a total waste of money because no matter how many times I tell myself it will happen, it clearly won't.

So I might as well buy a secondhand bike & take the whole family on holiday & stop thinking of my self for once.

Curses her and her sound reasoning

You shot off with a pile of over-opinionated drivel.

Pretty much the norm on STW

Some mothers like to knit or crochet lovely clothes for their little ones even though the cost of raw materials and time is waaaay more expensive than far eastern sweat shop stuff - its about pride.

Some fathers love to spend thousands on their own bike bling but fob their little ones off with junk.

Some people just don't see the point of anything.

I'm unlikely at 61 to have another nipper, but if I did and had the money spare I would jump at doing this, say "there you go son, daddy made this". Then use the skills to try to build my own bike.