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I have a dilemma. I have the option of getting a wheel hand built at my lbs by a renowned wheel builder or getting one for about £30 cheaper (£70 vs £100) online (probably CRC).
Are the CRC ones well built too or can they be a bit hit and miss? Obviously I'd like to make a saving but am feeling a bit guilty about not going to the lbs which has been very helpful and have a great reputation.
all other things being equal, (same rim/hub/spokes)
definately worth it imo.
all other things being equal, (same rim/hub/spokes)
definately worth it imo.
Agreed. My wheelbuilder also has an amazing 'tache.
Handbuilt wheels are awesome.
Depends who builds it tbh but as a rule yes
Giant
Just picked up a new hand built set from big Al at Wheelcraft (legend).
I got a free cup of coffee,the offer of some cake and told to bring them back for a free tune up once I have bashed them round the trails.
There is little if nothing he doesn't know about wheels and it was well worth the money on fuel to get there and back (twice).
Oh, and as I had sourced out the hubs and rims online they still came in cheaper than buying the same set ready built.
If the builder is good you won't regret it
Big al is tops 😉
CRC wheels are hand built as well you realise? At the prices you mention I'd go crc or merlin or whoever every time.
CRC wheels are hand built as well you realise?
Does that wheelbuilder know me and the way I ride? I very much doubt it. Does that wheelbuilder offer a free tweak after a bedding in period (as mentioned above)? I very much doubt it. Does that wheelbuilder offer banter, coffee, cake and support (again as mentioned above)? I very much doubt it.
Personally, I'd buy cheap and finish them myself but it all comes down to the builder. Can you be certain that the guy in the local shop is £30 better than the guy at CRC?
Can you be certain that the guy in the local shop is £30 better than the guy at CRC?
Yes. I've known him for years. I know his name. I know who he is. I know how he works and I know a lot about his craft.
The builder at CRC, do you know who he/she is? Do you have any idea of their experience as a builder?
Captain flash you may know all those things about your wheel builder but I don't think most people would do. How does how you ride effect how they build the wheel? The components used therein maybe but I'd be selecting those anyway based on my knowledge/previous experiences.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
CRC wheels are hand built as well you realise?
Does that wheelbuilder know me and the way I ride? I very much doubt it. Does that wheelbuilder offer a free tweak after a bedding in period (as mentioned above)? I very much doubt it. Does that wheelbuilder offer banter, coffee, cake and support (again as mentioned above)? I very much doubt it.
How you ride matters not a jot to how your wheel should be be built.
Otherwise unless CRC builds are gash VFM lies with them. It's down to the usual web vs. lbs' arguments as Flash says.
Every shop should produce good wheels. The notion that there are wheel builders with mythical abilities is a nonsense...but no more so than most marketing tripe.
How does how you ride effect how they build the wheel?
Weight, bike, riding style. These can all affect how someone builds a wheel.
Bollocks. It can effect component choice but has nothing to do with the build process.
I would always go with a hand built wheel now but then I'd build my own
CaptainFlashTart sucked in by "niche marketing" shocker!
And I was about to buy a Rab jacket too...
Yup, you could just buy the set you want (maybe cheaper) then get a builder to tune/check them.
Me,I like to go for the whole shopping experience and (for me )the bigger satisfaction.
It's all down to what you want in the end.
Build a bike from scratch or roll the same one out the door of an LBS (where they know what they are doing),you still end up with the bike you want,but I will always love my shed built projects more.
better idea, avoid the argument, buy a truing stand and do the bloody thing yourself.
Weight, bike, riding style. These can all affect how someone builds a wheel.
Lobbocks. All it affects is the choice of spoke/hub/rim. If you're specifying that in the first place, the only important fact is the quality of the build process, and then it's either done properly or not.
YES ❗
Sorry cfh, got to agree with the people who've called you above. Unless your wheelbuilder is suggesting the components then good wheelbuilding is good wheelbuild.ing I'll bet that some will dispute that based on the silly 'black art' bs that's surrounds many wheelbuilders but my own wheelbuilding background disagrees. People like to think they're getting something special and many wheelbuilders play up to that ime.
Gravy made a career out of it!
Sad to see flashie pwned. I feel for him I do. At least Fred wasn't involved.
Does that wheelbuilder offer a free tweak after a bedding in period
If the wheels are built properly in the first place this isn't needed!
I also agree with The Doctor. Re-tensioning check ups are a myth perpetuated by poor builders
Also think about how good a mechanic you have to be to get a job at a place like CRC or Wiggle. They have quite a set of requirements.
I'd imagine that someone you meet and ask to build something is going to be more dedicated than someone sitting in a factory somewhere who might only do the bare minimum they need to do to keep their job. I think I'm willing to pay the extra for that.
Sorry for double post...connection prob.
CRC would never get away with poor wheels IMO.
If wheel building is so easy then why do they write numerous books on the subject, most of them being over 100 pages or more.
I agree about riding being irrelevant given a certain component choice, but building a wheel has so many variables that there does have to be some craft in doing it well. Also, a wheel picked up from the shelf can seem perfectly fine, but uneven tension can lead to a rapid taco on the trail, when not much lateral force is applied.
Wheelbuilding is not rocket science, for an average rider there will not be much in the longevity of a machine built wheel versus one built by a so called master craftsman; especially when using cheap components.
My experience so far
Machine built (i presume), came on my 06 Marin Wolf Ridge.
Deore hubs/ Mavic 317 rims/ black spokes - still true
Hand built (by big local shop)
Hope hubs/ Mavic 317 rims/ black spokes - out of true
Retensioning IMO is not a myth; if you`ve got a new (aluminium) hub and rim and new (steel) spokes there will be some bed in at the hub & rim spoke holes and possibly stretch in the spokes themselves. Although probably very slight this will change the tension in the spokes >>>need to retension as a best option 🙂
The last shop built wheel I had, which came from a shop that brags about the skill of their wheel builder didn't do a very good job. I check my wheels for even tension using the park tool as my ear isn't very musical. When I build a wheel, I get a tension tolerance of plus or minus half a unit. When I checked the shop built one, it was under tensioned and a tolerance of plus or minus three. The last set of hope hoops I had were plus or minus one. They're effectively machine built wheels. Really does come down to the builder and the machine. Too many people big up their wheel builders in shops with no real measure of what they're doing.
James, I agree that there will be bedding in of components but all of that shoud be taken care of by the builder before the wheel leaves the shop. There should be sufficient stretching, squeezing and detensioning done that once out of the shop the wheel should not need any retensioning. I have the callouses and carpel tunnel to show for it
+300 for wheelcraft. Hope hoops are great imo
The last set of hope hoops I had were plus or minus one. They're effectively machine built wheels.
Really? I understood only the very cheapest wheels were machine built.
I could be wrong but I'm sure I heard they were machine built and hand tweaked. Also, that machines can build very good wheels, it just boils down to how many units you want to push through the machine. If you give them longer, they can build better.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
scottyjohn - Member
If wheel building is so easy then why do they write numerous books on the subject, most of them being over 100 pages or more.
I agree about riding being irrelevant given a certain component choice, but building a wheel has so many variables that there does have to be some craft in doing it well. Also, a wheel picked up from the shelf can seem perfectly fine, but uneven tension can lead to a rapid taco on the trail, when not much lateral force is applied.
Long books on a subject prooves only that there are some very boring people around 😉
There is craft in wheelbuilding which is why I said specifically 'good wheelbuilding' however it's not a black art no matter how much many try to claim it is.
Interesting.. set of machine built wheels kept breaking spokes.. took some advice and had them completely rebuilt by hand... problem solved. Hand built over machine built for me.
rickmeister, you may find that's due to cheap spokes rather than machine building. Either that or under tensioned spokes which is a process problem rather than the machine. That will build to whatever tension you tell it.
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James, I agree that there will be bedding in of components but all of that shoud be taken care of by the builder before the wheel leaves the shop. There should be sufficient stretching, squeezing and detensioning done that once out of the shop the wheel should not need any retensioning. I have the callouses and carpel tunnel to show for itTrue, on the occasions that I have built (just my own) wheels I did spend a lot of time squeezing, leaning sideways on teh rim etc (I even heard of a builder who walked on the wheeels!) but won`t there still be some longer term bedding in , after all no matter how much building squeezing etc that is a small proportion of the total tiem a wheel has being ridden and stressed at every rotation?
Re Hope Hoops, great wheels I agree having got both raod and MTB set; I believe that they are hand finished off at Hope, but even so my road wheels still required some retensioning after 1000 miles use, spokes had gone a bit
soft
but won`t there still be some longer term bedding in , after all no matter how much building squeezing etc that is a small proportion of the total tiem a wheel has being ridden and stressed at every rotation?
no!
I make no claim of being a brilliant wheel builder but since I have been building my own wheels I have not had any spoke breakages.
As a point of interest I have found that builds using double butted spokes seem to need the odd true, whereas builds using plain gauge tend to shift less.
As the result of what I percieved to be good advice I never build with black spokes or alloy nipples and I stay well clear of bladed or any other non standard spoke/nipple setup. Subsequent experience working part and full time in a bike shop has backed that up.
In answer to your question.........generally YES it is worth getting hand built wheels.......provided whoever is doing them concentrates, you should get a better product.
The bloke doing our shop built wheels at the moment takes an inordinate amount of care and time over them (way more than I do on my own wheels in my own time) and you'd be getting over double the labour he ends up charging you.
All the wheels I've build have been excellent. That is about 6 of my own (rim and hub swaps etc) and some of my mates wheels.
Send the stuff to me and I'll put it together into a wheel for you. I love building wheels and already have 4 to build up over Christmas whilt there's nowt on tele.
Its free but you pay postage and donate a suitable amount to help the Heroes if you think the wheel is any good.
Black and bladed spokes (decent ones) are fine. Alloy nipples work until they corrode.
i have bought wheels from merlin and crc in the past, both were good reliable. those places must put out hundreds of wheels, if you build that many youv'e got to develop some skills.