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Boost axles and 35mm bars (I have both on my newest bike!)
MTBs should have started with bigger wheels and the geometry more like MX bikes and never headed towards road bikes but at least we’re in roughly the right place now.
Instead we spent a wasted thirty years trying to make 26″ work,
This has to be a troll....are your for real?
MTB became a hugely successful market from nothing on 26", HTF do you explain that, it's as if the bikes were unrideable according to you.
Well I guess there's plenty that eat up the marketing BS...
Yes, anyone who finds real benefits from a "pointless change" has just been fooled by the marketing teams.
We had 26" wheels because it was hard to make light strong 29" wheels, not because they are intrinsically a better size.
Yes, anyone who finds real benefits from a “pointless change” has just been fooled by the marketing teams.
Choice-supportive bias is a thing too.
We had 26″ wheels because it was hard to make light strong 29″ wheels, not because they are intrinsically a better size.
That isn't the same as this though is it?
26″ bikes. Just an evolutionary dead end.
We should have gone straight from the pioneering men and women of the Rough stuff fellowship to the various flavours of 700c.
Instead we spent a wasted thirty years trying to make 26″ work, driven by marketing kool-aid and poor manufacturing.
Materials technology changed, which led to the ability to build stronger, big wheels (and lighter, but just as strong, 26" wheels). This isn't/wasn't as a result of "marketing kool-aid" or "poor manufacturing", but as a result of new material/construction technologies becoming available at a price that made them accessible to bicycle component manufacturers.
“We had 26″ wheels because it was hard to make light strong 29″ wheels, not because they are intrinsically a better size.”
I thought we had 26” wheels because fat tyres were already available in that size and tyres are the only part of a MTB that cannot be made without tooling a mould, which is very expensive.
I thought we had 26” wheels because fat tyres were already available in that size and tyres are the only part of a MTB that cannot be made without tooling a mould, which is very expensive.
Could also be right!
I’d refute this completely, not the least because there wasn’t, until comparatively recently, anything to ‘market’ 26″ wheels against. Unlike when eventually 29″ and then 650b/27.5″ were dreamt up and the marketing departments went to town, 26″ was the “go to” size.As for ‘poor manufacturing’ this is also, I’d suggest, complete rubbish. 26″ wheels were made by all manner of quality of manufacturers and for frames built by all manner of quality of manufacturers, just as 650b/27.5″ and 29″ wheels are now. ‘Poor manufacturing’ may be responsible for the quality of a product but is unlikely to be responsible for retention of an old standard or move to a new standard. Indeed, given the maturity of 26″ wheels as a standard, its arguable that the quality of even lower end rims etc is pretty good.
Yep. 650B can **** [i]right[/i] off. I haven't tried 29" yet, I am curious though, I'll admit that, but 650B is as cynical as it gets.
Road: bolt through axles
That's probably the best thing to have happened in recent times.
Interesting (on page 1, from yesterday) about road bolt through/QR - I guess bolt through has eliminated user error - I've never had a road or mtb wheel come loose. My current gravel bike still has QR and the brakes are always aligned.
Weird that OP would start a thread about "MTB", realise one of his issues is road and change the title . LoLz.
Agree that 35mm bars are completely unnecessary for normal riders - as are 203mm rotors, 800mm bars - but them pros what ride a bit betterer and faster and are more sensitive to their set up...
My bike came with 35mm bars and can't say it's any different for me.
Jr's new Remedy has Boost, apparently. That's a bleedin nonsense that is. Or does it mean he can run 2.5 tyres without any rubbing. Does he need 2.5" tyres??!
As for the actual worst - I'd say it's cassettes. They used to be £20-£30 - now in the £100s! Of course, they work and allow us to be rid of the hideous left hand shifter... but why such crazy money? (Buy Sunrace they say! Which bloody ones?!)
26" wheels. Yes, tyres, but also BITD box section rims were rare, nowadays you get them on mid range kids bikes. This enables a much stronger wheel build and by extension larger diameter wheels (along with ever lower spoke counts).
We had 26″ wheels because it was hard to make light strong 29″ wheels, not because they are intrinsically a better size.
As above, materials.
29 is fine. Because of all those, inefficient space wasting tall people. 🙂
650b is, and will always remain a cycnical pile of toss foisted on us by shysters.
See also 35mm bars etc.
Bolt through I'm undecided on, but it has a lot of advantages.
Choice-supportive bias is a thing too.
Yeah, and that's probably happening in some cases, but dismissing 29" wheels for example as marketing BS is silly. Rider size seems to be a factor in whether they work for you but no one's going to suggest XL frames are marketing BS because they ride a small.
Bikes with 35mm bars. Can't use nice stem I already have.
Boost. Makes reusing other hubs a pain.
I've had 26"(Yeti 5, Cotic Soul), 27.5" (5010) and 29" (Jeffsy) wheels. All were good bikes but given a straight choice I'd go 29 now.
I thought we had 26” wheels because fat tyres were already available in that size and tyres are the only part of a MTB that cannot be made without tooling a mould, which is very expensive.
Excactly. There was a pre-existing fat knobbly tyre - made by Nokian for riding in the snow in Finland. The tyres are the only bit you can't bodge/build/ prototype yourself. Early MTB wheel builders were cutting and re-rolling lightweight 700c rims to use with an existing tyre. You can easily change the rim to suit the tyre, you can't change a tyre to suit the rim.
So from that early instance as frames and ancillary bits for MTB moved from bodges and self-builds to production the 26" wheel was the template. It wasn't the result of exhaustive research and finite element analysis.
There was nothing empirically correct about that size of wheel or any other and theres no reason to use one size of wheel across all the realms of cycling that MTB has evolved into, or on all the sizes of bike.
As a 6'6" ride bigger wheels couldn't come soon enough. (I'm waiting for a diversification of wheels sizes to happening for road bikes too)
There is just as much refusing to see a benefit when it is there as there is believing there is a benefit when there isn't.
For everyone who perceives a benefit just because they believe in it there is someone who won't acknowledge a benefit no matter the objective evidence.
Humans are rubbish at rational decisions. Although it seems we are all agreed on the push fit bottom bracket though I suppose that can also be looked at in two ways, on the one hand we pay less than we would for the same bike with an external bottom bracket or on the other hand the bike company makes more money by saving on it's manufacturing costs which it doesn't pass on.
"Agree that 35mm bars are completely unnecessary for normal riders – as are 203mm rotors, 800mm bars – but them pros what ride a bit betterer and faster and are more sensitive to their set up…"
200mm+ rotors make a lot of sense for bigger wheels and heavier riders, especially brake draggers on uplift days - we mincers need the heat dissipation! And 800mm bars do feel nice if you're tall and the local trees aren't too tightly packed - MX bikes have had 800mm bars for years.
As for the actual worst – I’d say it’s cassettes.
I'm keen to know why the best research and development minds in cycling have taken 20 years to move from 7 cogs to 12 cogs by tentatively adding one cog at a time. (the whole cycling fraternity going to existential melt down about nothing being wrong with the old cogs each time could be a reason of course)
35mm bars, I remember Renthal's take on them - they don't allow us to make the bar/stem combo any lighter for a given strength or desired stiffness, but people are asking for them so we're making them.
Definitely filed under pile of toss, but who knows when all bars will go that way (hopefully never whilst there's some common sense involved).
There is just as much refusing to see a benefit when it is there as there is believing there is a benefit when there isn’t.
I remember when this forum was just as angry about disk brakes as it is now about e-bike
Internal rear brake routing is just soooooooo pointless
Short seat tubes on XL frames. noooooooo, that's just a new size for small people
27.5 is the best wheelsize we have currently unless you are the size of a child or ride around screaming Stravaaaaa :o)
Boost, i mean whats wrong with just offsetting the dropouts? You could make a fork with a 5mm step in each dropout and achieve the same width without introducing a new standard. Same at the back, just offset the rear wheel 6mm. Re dishing takes 10 minutes, no new wheel needed.
Pressfit bbs were bad, just another interface to creak with no advantages. BB30 was unnecessary for stiffness but the integrated bearings certainly save some weight and seem to work.
Wheels falling out? FFS. What has happened to common sense?
Ive landed (crashed) hard enough to pull the qr out of alignment. I still have qr's out of inertia but i dont think they're the best option for front axles by a long way. For the rear, i dont think we needed bolt through on hardtails, but probably did on FS bikes. It is a shame that the more niche brands abandoned 135mm QR. I really dont see the advantage on a Cotic, On One, Stanton etc. Last proved it was perfectly possible to make a modern hardtail with a qr rear hub.
Dropping quill stems in favour of threadless headsets on road bikes.
cartridge fit bearings instead of cup and cone.
no one’s going to suggest XL frames are marketing BS because they ride a small.
Are you new here?
I got to wondering yesterday whether in 10 years time the forum will be full of "How on earth did we manage to ride those things? Long, low slack, ponderous, thank goodness we've now got lively bikes with radical 70 degree head angles and the new 559b wheels that make tight twisty singletrack so much fun"
Disclaimer: this while riding my Mk1 Cotic Soul with brand new Purgatory 2.3 tyres. It took a bit of getting used to, but once I'd got my head round it, it were reet good.
Alloy spoke nipples.
Alloy spoke nipples.
We have a winner!
Bullshit to 29ers not happening because of materials/engineering...alloys are no different today and an extra 10% diameter doesn't make the rim/wheel suddenly dramatically weaker. Gary Fisher was the first proponent iirc and it was purely about tire availability.
And I'm not saying there's no benefit (I've already said I accept that...duh), but molgrips and others' "life changing"? As if!
Weird that OP would start a thread about “MTB”, realise one of his issues is road and change the title . LoLz
Omg person edits thread title what a complete idiot lol!!!!!
Alloy brake discs?
Press-fit BBs get my vote. I bought a Hope PF replacement BB because I thoroughly despise press-fit only to find I can't get cranks to go with them. Still on back-order with Hope.
boost. utterly pointless but a massive pain in the arse
"I’m keen to know why the best research and development minds in cycling have taken 20 years to move from 7 cogs to 12 cogs by tentatively adding one cog at a time."
Why would I want to just sell you a 7 and a 12 speed drivetrain...?
Press fit BB's, never a good experience with them and as a result, having a threaded BB is one of those tick boxes I have when looking at new bikes.
Used to be dead against 29ers but now sold, I guess like any new concept it takes a few generations to really get the benefit out of the original idea and other related tech, I suspect a combination of geometry and rubber in this case (similar to the combustion engine with fuel and Metallurgy)?
I’m keen to know why the best research and development minds in cycling have taken 20 years to move from 7 cogs to 12 cogs by tentatively adding one cog at a time.
I guess they just couldn't foresee a day when the IQ of your average cyclist had dropped to a level that they could neither setup nor operate a front mech.
I really dont see the advantage (of bolt-through axles) on a Cotic, On One, Stanton
I've had a QR back wheel go squiff in a DH race, possibly user stupidity, but through axles take that chance away. I like the idea that my wheels can't drop out of my frame or forks if my bike's in the air 🙂 (Stanton Switchback)
I’m keen to know why the best research and development minds in cycling have taken 20 years to move from 7 cogs to 12 cogs by tentatively adding one cog at a time.
Yeah, one of the competitors should've gone at one point "Ok, ha! here you go 25 speed cassette you idiots!"
Press fit BB’s, with a special mention to BB30.
And me putting 160mm forks on my PC jack Flash. Completely messed up the bike.
Press fit BB’s, with a special mention to BB30.
With you there. I would never buy another bike with this shite system.
The trend toward ever longer, slacker, lower geometry "trail" bikes is also getting out of hand. I wanted something with a decent amount of travel to replace my 2015 Enduro, but now it's hard to find something that isn't the length of a barge with the front wheel out of sight.
“I wanted something with a decent amount of travel to replace my 2015 Enduro, but now it’s hard to find something that isn’t the length of a barge with the front wheel out of sight.”
If it bothers you that much, put a long dropper post in a size or two down and use a reversed angleset for the headset. Or keep riding your old bike if there’s nothing wrong with it?
If it bothers you that much, put a long dropper post in a size or two down and use a reversed angleset for the headset. Or keep riding your old bike if there’s nothing wrong with it?
I found something suitable in the end with a bit less travel. One of the reasons for ditching my Enduro was the f****** press fit BB. Now it feels like a revelation to have a threaded BB again!
Flippy flappy brake/gear levers and press fit bottom brackets. Both really not particularly good ideas.
Ooo. Flex stems. They were gawd awful
Ooo. Flex stems. They were gawd awful
They were way better than rigid forks on bumpy downhills!
I really dont see the advantage on a Cotic, On One, Stanton etc.
At least Stanton have swapouts, I changed my Switchback to 135mm QR from 142 bolt through.