[Closed] Word of warning of the quality and warranty of On-One Carbon Race 29-frames

I think if it makes companies like On-One think twice about a business model based purely on importing cheap Chinese frames, with absolutely no input in terms of ongoing quality control throughout the manufacturing process, then the world will be a better place.

If the frames regularly fail like that, they're not safe. A failure at high speed could result in serious injury or a fatality.

I think the lesson we can all learn is that Brant doesn't have much confidence in his products, because they are made several thousand miles away and he can't physically check that they're being manufactured to satisfactory standards.

If he did have confidence in the product, he'd be offering a longer warranty, like the bigger manufacturers do.

So yes, we - the consumers - are the winner when a post like this appears. It reaffirms what many of us know - if you buy an imported frame from a company like On-One, you're unlikely to get a product of the quality you would get from a bigger manufacturer.

And if it fails, you're unlikely to get professional after-sales service.

shibboleth - I think you've probably pushed it too far with your on-one bashing now.

I have no idea what you have against them vs any of the other companies with a similar 'design it in the UK get it made in Taiwan or China' approach but I don't think you're making anyone look bad but yourself.

On-One improve their crash replacement.

Customers better off as a result.

Winners all round

I was referring more to Shib's rampage. The thread had settled to a point where, hopefully, misunderstandings had been ironed out, and some progress could be made. Then it starts getting pulled down a side street and kneed in the kidneys.

[i]I think the lesson we can all learn is that Brant doesn't have much confidence in his products, because they are made several thousand miles away and he can't physically check that they're being manufactured to satisfactory standards.[/i]

To be fair I'm pretty sure Brant regularly visits the factories in china.

Shib - you are Mike Sinyard and I clam my £5

shibboleth - I think you've probably pushed it too far with your on-one bashing now.

Sorry wwaswas, if ever I've got an opinion, I'll run it past you before I air it in future shall I?

Can you point out what in my last post that you disagree with?

Jamie, that wasn't a rampage... 😉

To be fair I'm pretty sure Brant regularly visits the factories in china.

If a bloke takes a sh*t every year on his birthday, he might be regular but he's not healthy.

So yes, we - the consumers - are the winner when a post like this appears. It reaffirms what many of us know - if you buy an imported frame from a company like On-One, you're unlikely to get a product of the quality you would get from a bigger manufacturer.

You do realise that the majority of mountain bike products sold in the UK are imported right?

QC in Tawanese and Chinese factories isn't shit either.

Good news if One-One do improve their out-of-warranty deals as a result. I still think given they're a small company they could have gotten in right first time on this, it's so obvious with inserts failing that it deserves a warranty replacement only a muppet would try and stick rigidly to T&Cs and not try and offer some goodwill. If both frame failures had involved smashed bits of carbon fibre I could understand the reluctance to keep warrantying it but that's not the case.

Shibboleth - Member
I think if it makes companies like On-One think twice about a business model based purely on importing cheap Chinese frames, with absolutely no input in terms of ongoing quality control throughout the manufacturing process, then the world will be a better place.

If the frames regularly fail like that, they're not safe. A failure at high speed could result in serious injury or a fatality.

I think the lesson we can all learn is that Brant doesn't have much confidence in his products, because they are made several thousand miles away and he can't physically check that they're being manufactured to satisfactory standards.

If he did have confidence in the product, he'd be offering a longer warranty, like the bigger manufacturers do.

So yes, we - the consumers - are the winner when a post like this appears. It reaffirms what many of us know - if you buy an imported frame from a company like On-One, you're unlikely to get a product of the quality you would get from a bigger manufacturer.

And if it fails, you're unlikely to get professional after-sales service.

That's a load of wildly speculative nonsense based on the sum total of zero information you have about On-One's quality control policies.

And two years is just as long as a lot of far bigger brands offer.

QC in Tawanese and Chinese factories isn't shit either.

It clearly is in the factory that churned out both the frames that the OP had the misfortune of receiving.

If a bloke takes a sh*t every year on his birthday, he might be regular but he's not healthy.

Top supply chain compliance advice there!

Personally I cannot understand the issue.

3 years out of one (relatively cheap) purchase and 2 frames. This likely being used in an environment where the bike would experience significant changes in temperature - warm storage to cold out side. These thermal conditions will have a significant affect upon all bonded items.

If people want lifetime warranty then generally they should buy something with a lifetime warranty that is backed up by an excellent customer service offering.

Personally if I am after a favour (something for nothing), appealing to peoples better nature is the way forward - rather than getting snotty on a forum, then getting snottier after they said they were looking at the situation.

On One and Planet X are excellent at what they do. You cannot expect the same product and service you get by going to a LBS and paying full price on a big brand bike. A bottomless warranty has to be funded by higher prices. Take your pick boys and girls.

This likely being used in an environment where the bike would experience significant changes in temperature - warm storage to cold out side. These thermal conditions will have a significant affect upon all bonded items.

This is the biggest load of twaddle I've read in a long time. 🙄

a business model based purely on importing cheap Chinese frames, with absolutely no input in terms of ongoing quality control throughout the manufacturing process

Pretty sure that this isn't OO/PX's business model

If the frames regularly fail like that, they're not safe. A failure at high speed could result in serious injury or a fatality.

Maybe, really? These inserts as it goes probably aren't safety critical. Not that that makes it ok - it's still pretty poor that they failed but trying the 'will nobody think of the kids' approach doesn't really help

I think the lesson we can all learn is that Brant doesn't have much confidence in his products, because they are made several thousand miles away and he can't physically check that they're being manufactured to satisfactory standards.

You'd better not fly or use pretty much any large product which has likely been manufactured around the world with a decentralised supply chain. Dealing with suppliers remotely isn't something unusual these days. You need to spend time with them to get that confidence which as it goes, I'm pretty sure Brant actually does a lot of from what I've read.

If he did have confidence in the product, he'd be offering a longer warranty, like the bigger manufacturers do.

That's clearly BS - 2 years is far from uncommon.

If you buy an imported frame from a company like On-One, you're unlikely to get a product of the quality you would get from a bigger manufacturer.

unlikely. proof? And define 'bigger manufacturer'. Are you suggesting we should only expect decent service from Spesh, Giant and Trek?

And if it fails, you're unlikely to get professional after-sales service.

I don't disagree that it's not great service. I think it's stupid to say that it's the norm just because it may be the case for OO/PX.

Does Brant have tattoos or something, shibby? 🙂

[i]Sorry wwaswas, if ever I've got an opinion, I'll run it past you before I air it in future shall I?

Can you point out what in my last post that you disagree with? [/i]

[i]
If the frames regularly fail like that, they're not safe. A failure at high speed could result in serious injury or a fatality.[/i]

I can't imagine that the unbonding of a seat tube insert at any speed is going to lead to a fatality. Equally, the BB shell would be held in place by the crank arms.

Also, you have no idea how regularly they fail like this. One user in a country that has unusually cold weather has experienced failure.

[i]If he did have confidence in the product, he'd be offering a longer warranty, like the bigger manufacturers do.[/i]

The OP has switched from a product costing £800 with a 2 year warranty to one costing £1600 with a 3 year one. I'd expect a lot bigger jump than that for the increase in price or do Pivot have no faith in their products either?

[i]makes companies like On-One think twice about a business model based purely on importing cheap Chinese frames, with absolutely no input in terms of ongoing quality control throughout the manufacturing process, then the world will be a better place.[/i]

as above, there's a lot of companies who have a 'design local, build global' approach. Brant (from what I've seen) visits the Far East regularly and I expect other p-x staff do too. Why have you singled them out for this criticism?

[i]It reaffirms what many of us know - if you buy an imported frame from a company like On-One, you're unlikely to get a product of the quality you would get from a bigger manufacturer.[/i]

do you know what failure rate larger companies get? I suspect as they all pretty much use the same factories and the same manufacturign techniques it will be the same across most of them. the only differences where design problems lead to failure which isn't the case for the OP.

Anyway, other than the above I think you're doign a sterling job.

It not I am afraid Brant, it is one of the barrel adjusters where the cable goes into the brake.

I don't think anyone can expect Planet X/On-one to personally check each and every frame when manufactured abroad. Anyone who owns one of their bikes (I do) will know why they're competitively priced, it's not difficult. But this frame isn't priced at the lower end, it's near enough 1K new! I think it's rightly so the OP expects better and is feeling pissed about it.

Shib...you are a plonker..frames pass qc and cen/en testing..therfore are safe for market.i.e. fit for purpose..if a significany nuber of on one carbon frames or anyones frames tbh were failing due to bonded inserts reglarly coming out then it would certainly be an issue that would have raised its head before now. Carbon insert failing for the same user coyld be either a. The frame is cack, in which case there would be hundreds of reports of the same fault. Or b the op is doing something a bit special with it..using solvent cleaners, storing at low temp...too many variables. .

so if you look for a common causative factor, based in the evidence provided..it looks less likely that manufacturer is at fault through poor design and more likely to be external factors in the life of the item.

[i]It not I am afraid Brant, it is one of the barrel adjusters where the cable goes into the brake.[/i]

They're not plastic are they?

200!

I can't imagine that the unbonding of a seat tube insert at any speed is going to lead to a fatality. Equally, the BB shell would be held in place by the crank arms.

A few years ago, a fellow club member was almost killed when the pinch-bolt on his seat post failed as he crossed a cattle grid at the foot of a descent between Barnacre Reservoir and Harris End Fell in the Pennines. The seat post slammed down, he got an unrecoverable speed wobble and broke most of his ribs and punctured his lung on a stone bridge.

Personally, I'd rather not have any part of my bike fail at speed as the possible outcome could be catastrophic.

Doesnt mean that on one aren't cack though and their customer service is no better than pound land in Ellesmere port

Unrecoverable speed wobble= NO RIDING SKILLZ

but in this case the seat clamp would have held everything in place anyway so the worst that would happen is that the saddle might turn slightly.

What bike was this seat clamp on? Have you taken similar steps to publicise the failure and berate the manufacturer given actual injury occurred?

As an aside, who sits down to ride across a cattle grid?

but in this case the seat clamp would have held everything in place anyway so the worst that would happen is that the saddle might turn slightly.

That's fine then, let's all buy sh*t frames that fall apart under normal use 🙄

Alot of manufacturers have:

free of defective materials and workmanship

Open question, what does this mean? Such items would surely present themselves early on in the products life/usage no? So if an item with 'limited lifetime warranty' failed after 18months - how the frig do you prove its not defective materials without analysis? Stress/loading/wear and tear signs etc surely would cloud this question?

Tsk, It's almost as if on one want to make money.

If you want a warranty from a mega corporation go and buy a specialised.

People want car boot prices and john lewis service 🙄

[i]That's fine then, let's all buy sh*t frames that fall apart under normal use[/i]

and the name of the manufacturer of the component on your freinds bike?

I've had stuff break in normal use. Not often, but occasionally.

My car breaks every now and again. I've always lived to tell the tale but sometimes peopel who's cars break don't.

Stuff breaks, bits fall off, people do stupid things and hurt themselves. It's just how the world is.

brant's acknowledged that the replacement policy coudl be reviewed and they're doing that.

You've produced no evidence that o-one have any higher failure rate than any other bicycle company - unless you can you're not really making a point about them that isn;t true for all the rest are you?

Personally, I'd rather not have any part of my bike fail at speed as the possible outcome could be catastrophic.

Anyway, just to say my warranty experience with PX was a good one, a reasonable outcome I think. I buy a few bits from them now and then.

Big companies backing smaller brands don't always get the customer service experience spot on, people in CC/warranty often have to work within a framework and it doesn't always equal the outcome that a person more in tune with the product and use may like to see. I know, it's happened at both big-ish companies with smaller brands I've worked for. Doesn't need to be said but while everyone's throwing opinions in, since I can relate fairly closely..

And still the usual sycophants warble away. It's really rather embarrassing!

Does anyone else remember when, oh must be 5 years ago now, an On One customer had a bit of a barney over some issue with them (I forget what it was over now) and the whole sorry email exchange was posted on the front page of their website? It's still the worst example of customer service I've ever seen. No matter what it was over it was handled appallingly. Since that day I've never (knowingly) spent a penny of my money on anything Brant has been involved in. That saddens me for a couple of reasons, and this is the first time I've mentioned my stance to anyone. But he lost me as a customer that day.

Oh FFS, we get it Shibboleth. Talk about a broken record… Have you sought therapy following your warranty experience? If so, may I suggest you look for a new therapist. 🙄

[i]And still the usual sycophants warble away. It's really rather embarrassing! [/i]

and the name of the manufacturer of the component on your freinds bike?

I wouldn't say that jameso was a brant sycophant - he works for a competitor doesn't he (at least he used to)?

Is a syco.phant an ill elephant? Or is it a psychophant..on with a need to dismantle bodies with a multi tool and an old welgo pedal?

and the name of the manufacturer of the component on your freinds bike?

No idea and it's completely irrelevant. You questioned that a failure like the OP's (at the seat post junction) could cause injury. I pointed out that I helped scrape up a friend who kissed a dry-stone wall at 45mph due to a similar bike failure. The component may have been different but the loss of control could be similar. 🙄

I wouldn't say that jameso was a brant sycophant - he works for a competitor doesn't he (at least he used to)?

I was referring to you. And Clubber.

Mods - you need to check your supplies of eye rolling emoticons, these lads are flying through them.

[i]Or is it a psychophant.[/i]

Is that not a crazy elephant? 🙄

Shibboleth isn't a lad..the way he is carrying on..definitely puts him into the shrieking hysterical lady category. ..he's got his petticoats all lifted and everything

[i]I was referring to you[/i]

All I've done is question why you think on-one failure rates are higher than other manufacturers or what their business process does that others don't (or vice versa).

[i]it's completely irrelevant.[/i]

because it wasn't an on-one product?

I haven't made any comment on their warranty process but for the record I thought the 10% off thing was a bit of an insult it should have been a reasonable discount or nothing at all.

I've also mentioned a problem I had with them so not being a sycophant really.

Bit late to this thread, I nearly bought one of those frames. I too would be very unhappy with a replacement frame failing as well....that does point to poor QC.

Hope it gets sorted

Wow!

I think their customer service has been poor here. Pretty sure I said that early on. I'm also under no illusions about OO having had an inconsistent, at best, approach to customer service that seems at least to revolve around how well you happen to deal with Brant via here quite often.

I still reckon you're talking BS though on the points I picked you up on the previous page. I'm not sure that you really understand what a sycophant is.

All I've done is question why you think on-one failure rates are higher than other manufacturers or what their business process does that others don't (or vice versa).

Where did I compare their number of failure rates to other manufacturers?

you didn't because it doesn't fit your argument that on-one have crap quality control.

With regard to my "wasting time" comment, the OP indicated he was finished with us, and on that basis there's little point in persuing

Your response was immature and unprofessional, and now you back it up with the idea that its okay to be selective about which customers you support? Of course the OP is going to say he wants no more to do with O-O. Maybe if he came out of the situation with some goodwill he'd change his mind? As others have said, as he isn't a STW regular the significance of your name popping up in a prompt reply meant nothing to him. If he'd realised someone from O-O had taken the time to post a positive follow-up he may not have felt the need to make that post.

Maybe it's about doing the right thing, regardless of whether that customer returns to you or not? Maybe lots of neutral potential/previous customers (rather than the fanbois) might be swayed by seeing how this pans out? Does the fact I dare post a critical comment mean I'm on your sh1tlist and if anything of mine breaks I don't get helped out?

you didn't because it doesn't fit your argument that on-one have crap quality control.

Oh right... So why on earth did you say

All I've done is question why you think on-one failure rates are higher than other manufacturers or what their business process does that others don't (or vice versa).