There's no reason I should feel odd for wanting to help my OH enjoy cycling more, but it does seem somehow strange to discuss her undercarriage on a forum.
To start - wearing good quality bibs (castelli, Patagonia liners etc). Not brand new to cycling, but not cycling regularly - maybe fortnightly.
Tried lots of googling, nearly all of it just comes up with advertorial saddle comparisons.
When my OH goes MTBing, its usually only about an hour or two before she develops pain. On a longer ride last weekend (5h) it got really bad and she later showed me what looked like lots of little cuts or places where the skin had been worn off her labia and she was bleeding (I winced - that must be horrible!).
We've tried two or three different womens specific saddles (a charge, a fizik and currently an Arione Donna with a big pressure relief channel - not a hole) on it.
She's said (and quite rightly) that she's gonna just give up and go back to running if it doesn't improve. That or our sex life is over.
Assuming this is not normal and just something you have to get through, have you any advice? Magic saddle? Magic bibs? Chamois cream?
Bike fit with someone used to fitting women to bikes.
There is a lot of variation in shapes and sizes, and set up is quite a bit more critical than many blokes. Especially if they are riding for any significant distance.
Have had similar issues with women riders i've worked with (mostly on road though).
Usually just an matter of endless experimentation with saddles and changes to their height, angle and setback.
Had one idiot husband who had set his wife up on a mans saddle that was probably 5cm too high, so she could get "full leg extension in the power phase" and with the nose up "to stop her sliding forwards on the saddle". 20 minutes at race HQ with a hex key and a borrowed saddle and everything was *much* better.
Pretty sure they're still married.
*bloke, so fyi
A mix (I think) of old age (so cyclin less) then an ebike letting me go much longer and further meant I was getting really unpleasantly sore with rubbed skin(which I’ve never had before), I now liberally apply cream (veloskin and it’s a each year Xmas pressie from the mrs), it’s deffo helped me. Only downside is that you have to remember if you’re doing suntan oil or nethercream.
OP - good on you for helping your partner and for a clear description of the problem (all too often people just refer generally to “sore bits” which isn’t specific enough)
I’ve had 20 years in the saddle, often on 10 hour endurance rides, and a lot of honest discussion with other female cyclists - based on that experience too many women don’t get the right advice!
A few thoughts on your description of the specifics of your partners problems:
- cuts and bleeding are more likely to be due to lack of chamois cream. I’d recommend in the first instance getting a good women specific chamois cream, and applying lots direct to skin, pubic hairs etc
- does she shave or trim her pubic hair (sorry for the personal question!) This causes problems for female cyclists, and it’s much better to just let the hair grow naturally as it offers protection to the labia and has softer hair ends (shaving or trimming creates sharp hair ends)
- women have different shaped labia’s - search for inner and outer shapes. This means that some women might need a larger “cut out” saddle than others
- expect some degree of light soreness as she gets used to being in the saddle, but this should only feel like a bit of tenderness than goes after an hour and / or a bit of a pressure feeling on the “sit bones” (in the middle of your bum cheeks!)
Hope that helps, and your partner gets to enjoy pain free cycling with you 😊
On the chamois cream front, MrsIHN uses double base cream from the pharmacy. It's really cheap, and she got the idea from reading about a study that British Cycling did with the female Olympic cyclists, and issues they were having with saddle soreness. They concluded that leaving the lady garden relatively untrimmed and using double base cream was the best option.
Forgot to add - she might need a different width saddle! Your partner might need a different width saddle to take the pressure properly on her sit bones. I think specialised do a free “bum pressure pad” to measure the distance between sit bones and can then advise on a suitable width of saddle.
My girlfriend has a very nice Ergon saddle that she rates. It is the 3rd different one she has tried I think. The angle of the seat also helped. I can always recommend chamois cream, female or male.
Use chamois cream (or as IHN says a barrier cream from the chemist). Be liberal with application. Double dipping not a problem when it's your own pot.
A saddle with cut outs and being measured is so important. I tried a 'Stella Italia' saddle at the weekend it was utterly amazing (but I can't afford it atm).
Shorts don't have to be very padded, I find the lesser padded ones better.
Also I've stopped wearing layers in the summer when we get hot and sweaty. So just padded shorts, not shorts and over shorts.
Personally out of all these things, the saddle is the most important thing and being measured is a great idea. Specialized have the 'arseometre'.
Edit - stcolin is correct, angle of saddle very important. Mine points downward a couple of millimetres.
When descending even a slight incline I try to stand up, it eases pressure.
Only cycling a couple of times a month doesn't harden up the nether regions (so to speak).
Cuts! 😳
I think I would’ve just stopped at that point. When I was getting the gf sorted in her road bike, We started with the basics and went from there
So obvious ones first. No knickers, which is hard I know to get your head around, but it’s just better. chamois cream, and be generous. Good padded inners or shorts, you’ll just need to try loads until you get ones that fit (and then they’ll stop selling them 😂) and try loads of saddles. I used Cannondale Raven until it fell apart, and never really got anything better, some women need a cut out some don’t. And just don’t go for 4 hour rides straight away, build up slowly
But out of all that. Chamois cream!!
My wife had similar problems, but didn't want to go for a bike fit. She just uses hers to get around town etc every now and then. Tried a few saddle for her, then just went for one that was almost all cut out, the croissant shaped ISM touring. Still gets sore, but only on the sit bones, which is probably because she rides it so infrequently.
oh lordy that sounds awful. Very little to add except I remember reading an article in the Graun a few years back about the pain and experiences the Team GB female cycling team had to go through before finally some efforts were made to address these challenges.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/aug/15/team-gb-cycling-saddle-sore-medals
^ is the thing that MrsIHN read.
Ok, my experience...
I tried padded shorts (sans pants) and it's ok for a bit until they get sweaty then I'd get uncomfortable so I've gone back to plain old knickers. If we're out on a long ride I take a spare clean pair with me and change around halfway into fresh pants, which is nice. +1 on saddle angle too, I find it most comfy with the saddled angled slightly down relative to my sitting position (which may not actually be angled down if you look at the bike unsagged from the side) such that it's just really my arse bones that are doing most of the sitting duties which tends to help keep the, er, area a bit fresher. I think those bits of my bum's hardened off now though, like a guitarists fingers 🤣
But, yeah, clean pants and change them halfway through a ride if it's a long-ish one.
We found for mrs_oab:
1. bike / saddle fit from good shop.
2. Saddle angle was *the* important thing - slightly nose down.
3. Don't assume posh shorts solve it. We had some 'gel' ones from Endura the were as sweaty as, plus had a quite thick thread on the woven pad cover = chafe.
4. We've never resorted to creams - but know friends who swear by them.
Everything I know is in that link @chaos posted! Hopefully it helps but from what you’ve described I’d suggest chamois cream all around the labia, and tilt the saddle nose forward on the one that best fits her sit bones. Also, be sure to arrange the labia comfortably upon setting off!
On a longer ride last weekend (5h) it got really bad
Honestly I'm genuinely not surprised, I mean I cycle pretty regularly but I'd be impressed if my arse wasn't a bit sore after 5 hours. If you don't cycle all that often, well...
A female riding partner of mine once used my Assos chamois cream prior to a long ride. There was a brief hiatus whilst she washed it all off again! Stay away from the minty stuff ladies.
I have forgotten the name but there is a cream that is used in milking parlours to prevent chapping of the teats and it is unflavoured, comes in quite big pots and is reasonably cheap. (The name is something like Udderly Smooth, if you know a curtain wall fitter they can point you at it as it's used to install the gaskets on sealed glass units).
My good lady gets on really well with the ISM saddles after suffering before that
She could try dropping her saddle a bit it may be too high. That works for me I have only ever had an issue when the saddle was adjusted too high.
coming at this from a different angle, what about just wearing normal pants and shorts ?
not all people need padding whilst riding.
Mrs Ton, and myself rider thousands of miles a year in normal cotton (me ) cotton/elastane (mrs ton). all bought from primark.
padded shorts soak up sweat. sweat is salt which can crystalise. which can rub you very sore.
maybe she is the kind of person who dont need padding.
When I rode a MTB regularly (many years ago now!), it did take a while to get the fit ok, but when I got a road bike for commuting I had an issue with bike fit that might be a similar issue. I was leaning / rolled too far onto the front of my pelvis rather than having the vast majority of weight on the sit bones and going over a few bumps my labia skin split and bled. Is it a new bike, the MTB? You'll have to have a conversation of how it 'feels' to sit on the saddle as in where the pressure is. I am one of those people who have far longer legs in proportion to my torso and arm length (my partner has similar inside leg 32" to my 31" but his arms are a full 4" / 10 cm longer than mine at about 1 m from the shoulder whereas mine are ~90 cm). I can't comfortably reach the brakes on both my bikes, I have strange wrist positions when covering the brakes. I am also probably very inflexible in my back! I have a very short but high stem to get the handlebars closer to my 'comfortable' seated position. This in turn affects how 'rotated' my pelvis is/hips are.
If it is more like 'rubbing', something I get is my pubic hair pulls when moving around and causes the hair follicles to get irritated and then I can develop saddle sores, like a bed sore. Interestingly in contrast to some of the discussion above, I have to trim my hair to stop it 'pulling' (not shave, OMG!). And on anything longer than 30 minutes or if it's a sweaty day, use chamois cream. I use Udderly Smooth. I also do use padded shorts on both MTB and road, but I suspect like saddles this is a very person-specific thing.
If it is related to weight distribution... Interestingly, my saddle is set up very differently on my MTB than my road bike. On my MTB the saddle is tilted really far forward. It does put more weight onto my arms, but it keeps my sit bones in the middle-back of the saddle without putting pressure on the front of the pelvis / labia on the nose of the saddle. My road bike is actually a lot more level but I have found a riding position and saddle that works for me, keeping the weight on my sit bones. Unfortunately, saddles are very much trial are error, I tried one with a hole and it was agony like it was splitting apart my pelvis, presumably too narrow and not supporting my sit bones. Every individual is going to have a different fit and literally 1 mm in width can make a massive difference to how it feels.
So to the good advice above... start with much shorter, regular rides. Get on the bike a few times in the week, pootle to the shops or whatever for 10-20 minutes to harden off the sit bone area and check the feel before causing damage. If it seems to be a rubbing issue, try without padded shorts and with, and try chamois cream. If it might be weight distribution, adjust the saddle and fit very small amounts and try to adjust both the saddle position, tilt and the handle bar reach and position if it's a new bike or new type of bike (i.e. if she usually road rides and MTB is new). Good luck!
Well as this has wrapped up - I'll just say thanks for all of the advice. I've found a couple of sizes of the power mimic saddle barely used for cheap and will get her to try them out, and some women's Chamois cream arrived yesterday.
Great news about the saddle and chamois cream @continuity. I’ve just been converted to that saddle after a bike fit. My bike fitter also encouraged me to try woman's specific chamois cream - the key is to not scrimp. Make sure all areas and folds are well covered. The only other thing I would say is if your OH is peri or menopausal that may be contributing to some of her symptoms. If she is a call with the GP to discuss topical HRT might not be a bad idea. Hope she finds a solution that works. Keep us updated 🙂
She's in her late twenties so we have all of the children nightmare to get to before all of that, but much appreciated as an idea. We've also managed to swap her (albeit nice) 120mm hardtail for a top of the range carbon giant trance (the market is mad atm), so maybe a little suspension under that power mimic saddle might work in her favour as well!